OVLOV JAY:
Nice to see the left aren’t letting the side down, reverting to type. When incoherent ramblings fall on deaf ears, take a sensible persons point, turn it upside down and throw it back, playing the you’re a homophobic/xenophobic/■■■■/racist/biggoted* card on the way. When that fails, revert to name calling on a personal level.
Nobody is likening the eu to the third reich or any other such organisation. All that was pointed out, is the megalomaniacs like Hitler and his type, wanted to achieve the same result, albeit by force of violence, hence war after war, and the equal megalomaniac Charles DeGaulle devised a plan to take it by peace.
Nobody is saying the eu is a violent suppressive regime, but it is an undemocratic one. It was brought to its current guise by rigged referendums, closed shop politics and corrupt politicians.
What always tickles me with liberals, is for so called democratic people, they’re really opposed to people using their democratic right to return us to the only true form of democracy, which is total self governance.
*delete as applicable
People are saying they have same goals as the nazis. A guy put up a photo of soldiers from a world war, that is comparing it to a violent regime.
The EU commissioners are voted in by the member states and the democratically elected MEPS. Not the best process I grant you, a bit like the house of Lords. Well you can get rid of EU commissioners and veto any law they proscribe. The house of Lords we just have to ■■■■ it up.
Nobody thinks EU is perfect, far from it in fact but people believe it would be worse outside it.
Carryfast:
Why would anyone who wants out vote for in ?. 
Maybe they have a different opinion from you, 
muckles:
Carryfast:
Why would anyone who wants out vote for in ?.
Maybe they have a different opinion from you,
That is not allowed!
They must be a lentil soup eating cardigan wearing foot soldier of the new European army.
Coming here with there equality and political correctness, the idea that you can go out your way to try not to upset people. Who wants to live in a world like that when people are treated equally and with some manners! Ffs
alicks77:
Like it or not brexiters are seen as racist xenophobis that want to go back to an era that doesn’t and can’t exist.
By whom? As I understand it, both camps are pretty much neck-and-neck.
Throwing around the “racist card” hasn’t worked for at least a couple of years now, and I’d be highly surprised if it ever worked again.
Go back in time… The UK did alot better on its own well before the eu was invented
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bubsy06:
Go back in time… The UK did alot better on its own well before the eu was invented
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But surely both side need to be looking forward, will the UK be better out of the EU or staying in it.
I find the using wartime images and people telling me what they think my grandfathers generation would have thought a bit cheap and tacky. Millions of people were involved in the war effort in the UK, and no doubt they’d be as many differing views between them as there are today.
I can guess the views of both sets of my Grandparents and other relatives of that generation and I know for a fact they would have disagreed with each other on the subject.
The questions is not what our Grandparents and in some cases Parents might think, but what will our future generations think if we get this vote wrong.
I think they are seen as racists or at least dim witted because they go on about immigration as if it just started 20 years ago and has been happening since time began.
I don’t think they are all xenophobis, some have valid issues with the EU. Even though I can see a point in what they are saying it’s the desire to say it’s “thems” fault. It’s always an influx of cheap labor, it’s not the company that only pays cheap wages it’s the poor guy who has travelled from the other side of the world for a better life, who has been here 10 minutes that’s ruined the place.
It’s also the rose tinted look back to the utopia that existed before the EU. Obviously after the 2 wars the rationing and the national sport discrimination/racism/pedophilea. Yes the glory days.
alicks77:
People are saying they have same goals as the nazis. A guy put up a photo of soldiers from a world war, that is comparing it to a violent regime.
The EU commissioners are voted in by the member states and the democratically elected MEPS. Not the best process I grant you, a bit like the house of Lords. Well you can get rid of EU commissioners and veto any law they proscribe. The house of Lords we just have to ■■■■ it up.
Nobody thinks EU is perfect, far from it in fact but people believe it would be worse outside it.
It’s actually making the point that those who fought in ‘both’ wars were trying,or naively thought they were trying in the case of WW1,to stop a German dominated Federal take over of Europe ( Third Reich in the case of WW2 ).
As for EU federal government it actually means policy which applies to all member states can be made by a foreign vote which totally outweighs the vote of any particular state.IE a majority of EU states vote for something and we don’t then that foreign vote applies and sets the decision here with no right of opt out or substitution by our own MP’s for our own country.With Germany in this case being considered as more important than the rest.Which is the definition of Federal government and it’s why there’s been numerous examples historically of wars of secession for the legitimate right of self determination and sovereignty and with it sovereign local democracy.
alicks77:
muckles:
Carryfast:
Why would anyone who wants out vote for in ?.
Maybe they have a different opinion from you,
That is not allowed!
They must be a lentil soup eating cardigan wearing foot soldier of the new European army.
Coming here with there equality and political correctness, the idea that you can go out your way to try not to upset people. Who wants to live in a world like that when people are treated equally and with some manners! Ffs
Did you actually read the post.The question was ‘why’ would anyone who actually ‘wants to leave’ vote to ‘remain’.Bearing in mind we’re not talking about anyone changing their mind on the way to polls. 
I am saying the maybe want to leave Europe but like some of the core values of it. And they think it’s maybe lost its way a bit but it’s hearts in the right place. Or they don’t want farage and his ilk in charge dismantling the nhs and such like.
muckles:
I find the using wartime images and people telling me what they think my grandfathers generation would have thought a bit cheap and tacky. Millions of people were involved in the war effort in the UK, and no doubt they’d be as many differing views between them as there are today.
I can guess the views of both sets of my Grandparents and other relatives of that generation and I know for a fact they would have disagreed with each other on the subject.
The questions is not what our Grandparents and in some cases Parents might think, but what will our future generations think if we get this vote wrong.
How can you get the question,of handing over the sovereignty of the country,wrong.There is only one answer.As for future generations you mean risk the threat of condemning them to a war of secession at some point.All for what.
alicks77:
I am saying the maybe want to leave Europe but like some of the core values of it. And they think it’s maybe lost its way a bit but it’s hearts in the right place. Or they don’t want farage and his ilk in charge dismantling the nhs and such like.
You really think that the NHS won’t dismantle itself at current rates of revenues v debts.In large part because of our unsustainable net contributions to the EU and trade deficit and over loading by immigrants viewing it as the international health service.
So what are these ‘core values’ other than a Socialist cluster zb and bearing in mind the question of sovereignty ain’t going away.
The uk can reject any EU law it wants, it’s called a veto. Or do what other EU states do and ignore the law. When euro court told Spain you can’t deport guy back to home country because he will be killed, they did it anyway.
alicks77:
The uk can reject any EU law it wants, it’s called a veto. Or do what other EU states do and ignore the law. When euro court told Spain you can’t deport guy back to home country because he will be killed, they did it anyway.
Great then you won’t mind that being made official in the form of a Confederal EU constitution that returns full sovereignty to the seperate states as opposed to a Federal one.
Feel free to list all the matters subject the right of VETO as opposed to QMV and EU directives imposed by the commission which our MEP’s have no powers to unilateraly overturn.
MEPS can’t overturn them but uk government can veto. Thatcher got the veto years ago.
alicks77:
MEPS can’t overturn them but uk government can veto. Thatcher got the veto years ago.
As I said feel free to list matters subject to right of VETO v QMV and Commission directive and what rights we have to unilaterally overrule the latter two of those especially ‘directives’ from the Commission.Here’s a clue.I’m guessing that you do know when Thatcher left office.Not that she did anything other than to pretend to be a Eurosceptic while signing away the country’s sovereignty just like her Europhile crony Heath.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_European_Act
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Lisbon
europeanlawmonitor.org/what- … ctive.html
Carryfast:
over loading by immigrants viewing it as the international health service.
You do realise that the majority of immigrants coming into the country are not from the EU, and the issue of health tourism is predominately an issue with people from outside the EU, bearing in mind the NHS count ex pats living in Spain etc. as health tourist.
Regardless the cost of health tourism is minimal compared to the overall cost of the NHS, and the cause of its is issues is a lack of investment from numerous governments over the years of all colours.
drhs:
if any body seems to think europe will not trade wiv england after an eu exit …there seriously wrong how much do we import n who much do we export …? all I no is I’m for been out …im English not fooooookiiinnng European loo
ve driving abroad hate the eu wiv a passion…hopefully we’ll be out 2 weeks fri …time wawaw
If we come out, at least they will have surplus money to spend.
Evidently some of it should be spent on education, especially on the subject of English. 
Haven’t watched live telly for ages, happened to catch QT last night, brilliant stuff, worth watching on catch-up if you missed it.
The typical BBC hostile audience with some real knuckle dragger hecklers for bonus.
By far the star of the show was Eddlie Izzard, who looked and sounded like a complete twerp, more so than usual.
He really had it in for Farage who was next to him?, as the show progressed Farage increasingly didn’t need to say much if anything because the spectacle Izzard did it all for him, throwing his arms about shouting over everyone about the socialist utopia was one of the best own goals the IN campaign could have scored, worth watching just to see.
Presumably the campaign will get more frantic and desperate as the date gets closer, should be worth watching for entertainment…not as i can listen to Jimmie Krankie aka Sturgeon, dunno what it is, the smacked arse face or the shrill voice.