Dipper_Dave:
Bear with me I’m only on page 6 of what is a very juicy read.
IMHO having weighed up all the arguments for being in, out or shake it all about I have deceided to be an inny.
This decision was concluded by travelling forward in time using both possible outcomes as a split in the space time continuum and comparing my wages in both realities.
I’m unable to debate my decision as like the average voter I know fork all about this stuff but interestingly no matter which reality I choose to visit in the future Donald Trump was president.
Oh and England win the euros in the one where the in vote also wins.
Is it worth me investing in hover boards? I think the city could need the investment
Well I’m now on page 12 and due to Harry’s, Juddian and Ovlovs posts and arguments presented I’ve deceided to vote out.
Fickle but like millions of voters I’m so confused by the whole thing that my final decision will be deceided on the day.
Or like many millions I may just go for the CBA option which leaves only the purists, strong believers and partially undecided in their choice left.
This will inevitably lead to the logical scenario when fear of change kicks in and the millions of wobblers fall on the safe ground of staying in.
Perhaps the ill-informed majority like myself who have been clusterfucked and confused by the arguments presented in the media have no choice but to vote with their gut regardless of the efforts by both sides.
I’m still reading so my opinion may change, cuz I’m a fickle ■■■■ like many others.
del trotter:
There is plenty of evidence to support the view that Churchill held racist and white supremacist views, although I have no idea why you cited him as that is clearly a World War 1 photo.
To compare the referendum to either world war is in my view low, ignorant and smacks of the sort of post I would expect from the group I named, if you feel you agree with that view you should not be upset to be grouped with them
Yes Churchill’s actions in Ireland were a tragedy for all sides.As was his support for dragging us into WW1.
However he also redeemed himself both in regard to his actions in helping to settle the Irish question along the correct lines of a Nationalist solution and in WW2 and its aftermath in fighting zb Socialism in all its forms.
IE Nationalism is the solution to zb Socialist and/or Federalist ideology whether it be Hitler’s third Reich or Stalin’s Soviet Union ( remembering that Hitler and Stalin predictably started WW2 as Socialist allies ) or Tito’s Yugoslavia or ironically himself regards the UK.The EU Socialist infiltrated EU federation being no different in that regard.
Now unless you’re prepared to call Michael Collins a ■■■■ I’d suggest you and your Socialist driven agenda should zb off and join your infiltrating cronies like zb Merkel.Where hopefully the Germans will see sense before it’s too late and before the whole argument turns really nasty as in the case of Yugoslavia and Ireland.
Churchills personal views had nothing to do with world war 2, I was just answering the question of whether he was racist.
To compare the EU to Hitlers vision of Europe is childish and puerile.
But it would be fair to compare it with Tito’s vision of Yugoslavia at least but on a much bigger scale.Which is why the zb Socialists like the hag Merkel and her comrade Juncker among others and their zb wit supporters are so keen on ramming it down our throats.
As for Churchill’s ‘personal’ views having nothing to do with our position in WW2 and after then who’s zb side are you suggesting that he was ‘personally’ on if not that of being ‘personally’ against Hitler’s version of Socialism and Stalin’s.
You do like to think you know it all, but unfortunately show your ignorance everytime you open your fat gob. Try looking at Churchills actions in India and tell me he was such a great bloke, furthermore why am I a socialist just because I don’t share your opinion, you know nothing about me and my views.
OVLOV JAY:
I suppose it’s all down to (mis)interpretation
Quote - your words: “Just because the eu doesn’t kill thousands of people, doesn’t mean it’s any different to the forced, undemocratic federalist regime Hitler wanted”.
Whats is misinterpreted, because you are talking total ■■■■■■■■!!!
He’s not talking ■■■■■■■■ because the inherently undemocratic ideology of Federalism that tramples all over the Nation State and the of right of self determination is Federalism whether it’s the 3rd Reich,or Soviet Union or Yugoslavia or the EU.It’s also why Socialists like Merkel and Juncker are so keen on it because it gives them the chance to impose their typical infiltrate and take power doctrine without resistance.
del trotter:
You do like to think you know it all, but unfortunately show your ignorance everytime you open your fat gob. Try looking at Churchills actions in India and tell me he was such a great bloke, furthermore why am I a socialist just because I don’t share your opinion, you know nothing about me and my views.
His actions in Ireland were good enough for me.Oh look a Federalist problem solved by a Nationalist solution having realised that he was in the wrong in having caused needless loss of life on a Federalist agenda.In which as I said Michael Collins proves the lie that Nationalist means ■■■■.For that you’ll need to look closer to home IE Hitler was a Socialist just like Stalin and just like Tito and your comrade Merkel.
While yes I expected the ignorant personal attack from an obvious zb wit Socialist/Federalist.
Dipper_Dave:
This will inevitably lead to the logical scenario when fear of change kicks in and the millions of wobblers fall on the safe ground of staying in.
It’s only fear of ‘change’ for those who aren’t old enough to remember pre 1973.Or for that matter what happened to the economy since without that reference point.
As for the future.Yugoslavia and Ireland among others have been where the EU is inevitably heading in the conflict between self determination/Nationalism v Federalism in whatever form.Unless we smash the thing now before it reaches that point.
if any body seems to think europe will not trade wiv england after an eu exit …there seriously wrong how much do we import n who much do we export …? all I no is I’m for been out …im English not fooooookiiinnng European loo
ve driving abroad hate the eu wiv a passion…hopefully we’ll be out 2 weeks fri …time wawaw
Like it or not brexiters are seen as racist xenophobis that want to go back to an era that doesn’t and can’t exist. When Britainia ruled the waves. Saying the EU is the modern equivalent of the nazis and how voting leave in a democratic process is the same as giving your life in war shows the level of their low brow argument.
Then if you say something like that you are now in Merkel s gang a foot soldier of the new EU/■■■■ army. Could it be that we the inners have a different view of what’s best for the uk and beleive being part of a bigger team is better than trying to go alone?
alicks77:
Like it or not brexiters are seen as racist xenophobis that want to go back to an era that doesn’t and can’t exist. When Britainia ruled the waves. Saying the EU is the modern equivalent of the nazis and how voting leave in a democratic process is the same as giving your life in war shows the level of their low brow argument.
Then if you say something like that you are now in Merkel s gang a foot soldier of the new EU/■■■■ army. Could it be that we the inners have a different view of what’s best for the uk and beleive being part of a bigger team is better than trying to go alone?
No the inners are Federalists.Just like Stalin’s red army or Hitler’s Wehrmacht or the Black and Tan in Ireland or Tito’s etc JNA or even Edward 1’s Plantagenet mob or King George’s red coat army.In this case trying to enforce the rule of ex stasi East German Socialist hag Merkel and her comrades like Juncker on anyone who dares to defy the Socialist zb’s.
On that note Brexiters or for that matter the French FN are no more racist xenophobes than Michael Collins’ IRA were or the Slovenian and Croation militias v the JNA or all those who stood against Stalin’s Soviet Empire.Or those who defeated Napoleon’s similar ideas for a Federal Europe run by him.On that note the inners don’t have a view of what’s best for the ‘uk’ because they don’t believe in the idea of the Nation State.They only believe in Federalism and the so called bs idea of the ‘pooling of sovereignty’ which goes against all the laws of democracy and self determination.Not surprising being that zb Socialists/Federalists don’t do domocracy.
On that note enjoy your undemocratic Socialist/Federalist dream while you can because if we don’t smash it now others will in the future.
On that note with a National debt in the trillions and climbing, contributed to by our net EU contribution and EU trade deficit.Not to mention the choice between being ruled by people like Merkel and Juncker and their Socialist cronies as part of a crumbling Soviet type federal cluster zb.We don’t have a choice in not going back to where we were pre 1973 in which the country governed itself in its own interest not that of European German/Socialist ■■■■■■■■■■.
Nice to see the left aren’t letting the side down, reverting to type. When incoherent ramblings fall on deaf ears, take a sensible persons point, turn it upside down and throw it back, playing the you’re a homophobic/xenophobic/■■■■/racist/biggoted* card on the way. When that fails, revert to name calling on a personal level.
Nobody is likening the eu to the third reich or any other such organisation. All that was pointed out, is the megalomaniacs like Hitler and his type, wanted to achieve the same result, albeit by force of violence, hence war after war, and the equal megalomaniac Charles DeGaulle devised a plan to take it by peace.
Nobody is saying the eu is a violent suppressive regime, but it is an undemocratic one. It was brought to its current guise by rigged referendums, closed shop politics and corrupt politicians.
What always tickles me with liberals, is for so called democratic people, they’re really opposed to people using their democratic right to return us to the only true form of democracy, which is total self governance.
The impression I’m getting from the biased media right now - is that Brexiteers that have yet to vote - are being pressured to vote Remain “because a close result either way would be disastrous”.
OVLOV JAY:
Nice to see the left aren’t letting the side down, reverting to type. When incoherent ramblings fall on deaf ears, take a sensible persons point, turn it upside down and throw it back, playing the you’re a homophobic/xenophobic/■■■■/racist/biggoted* card on the way. When that fails, revert to name calling on a personal level.
Nobody is likening the eu to the third reich or any other such organisation. All that was pointed out, is the megalomaniacs like Hitler and his type, wanted to achieve the same result, albeit by force of violence, hence war after war, and the equal megalomaniac Charles DeGaulle devised a plan to take it by peace.
Nobody is saying the eu is a violent suppressive regime, but it is an undemocratic one. It was brought to its current guise by rigged referendums, closed shop politics and corrupt politicians.
What always tickles me with liberals, is for so called democratic people, they’re really opposed to people using their democratic right to return us to the only true form of democracy, which is total self governance.
Trust me having been a Socialist these people will do anything to infiltrate the system of government.That includes calling themselves so called 'democratic ‘Liberals’ when in fact they are no less Soviets than Stalin was.Which is why Socialist zb’s like Juncker,Hollande and Merkel are strutting around calling the shots and telling us all how it’s going to be and these zb wits are supporting them.
As for the EU not a violent suppressive regime ‘yet’.Possibly will be in two or so generations time,going by previous historic examples of Federal rule even in our own case of the UK.IE Federations don’t do secession or the right to national sovereignty and self determination.Which is why we’re being threatened with economic sanctions today.Probably an EU Federal Army in a couple of generations time if they decide it’s no longer for them.
Winseer:
The impression I’m getting from the biased media right now - is that Brexiteers that have yet to vote - are being pressured to vote Remain “because a close result either way would be disastrous”.
Why would anyone who wants out vote for in ?.
It will obviously be a close vote because realistically it’s the anti federalist Euro Sceptic Con and Labour vote.
As opposed to the Federalist/Socialist Con and Labour vote,among two parties who are both ideologically pre disposed towards Federalism.
