addcoxy:
Unpicking nearly 300 years of Union is going to be a messy ! Very messy
Any one on here know the main reason for the act of union in the first place?
I don’t know where I heard it but basically Scotland was bankrupt.
We’re bankrupt - ie the whole of the UK.
The big difference is that as the UK, we have access to a good credit line, maintained not by how much we’ve got outstanding already - but by the large size of our economy overall.
Scotland was bankrupt because of centuries of fighting for its survival against the Norman/Plantagenet etc etc unionist agenda continuously ranged against it. In addition to what seems to have been an additional French conspiracy over centuries after the Bruce ( or is that de Brus ) had conveniently got rid of Wallace.
Fast foward to all these years later and now the whole UK has committed economic suicide by wrecking it’s wealth creating industries to the point where as you say we’re effectively bankrupt and getting ever deeper in debt to pay for yet more imports and keep an under employed and under paid population.Your answer to all that is that it is in Scotland’s interests to stay in that bankrupt union because it can borrow more money to get into even deeper debt than an independent Scotland could.
When basic economics say that the quicker that Scotland can cut its ties to that massive sinking ship,on the basis of a nothing to lose sink or swim fix of its own ship,by putting itself into trade surplus instead of trade deficit,the better.Bearing in mind in this case that the Scottish ship has a lot less mouths to keep fed than the so called ‘UK’ one has.
BillyHunt:
Last time I checked darling wasn’t in government, he can say what he wants as it means bugger all.
Of course he’s not in Government. But it was to Better Together campaign mooting the point that Scotland might not be able to use Sterling. Alistair Darling was reluctant to concede the point that Scotland could use Sterling. He was after all Chancellor of the Exchequer, so should know something in this area. Even if it had to be forced out of him
BillyHunt:
Last time I checked darling wasn’t in government, he can say what he wants as it means bugger all.
Of course he’s not in Government. But it was to Better Together campaign mooting the point that Scotland might not be able to use Sterling. Alistair Darling was reluctant to concede the point that Scotland could use Sterling. He was after all Chancellor of the Exchequer, so should know something in this area. Even if it had to be forced out of him
If the best that Scotland can do is to be reliant on the Pound Sterling,instead of an independent Scottish pound,then that’s just an admission that Scotland will sink not swim if/when it cuts its ties with the union,before it even starts.
matamoros:
Anyone in the world can use sterling as a currency in the same way that many countries use the dollar, the problem in Scotlands case would be where do they obtain these pounds sterling and what do they pay for them with. The source of pounds sterling is the Bank Of England and presumably without a currency union they will not be distributing millions of pounds to Scotland’s banks free of charge.
Jersey, Guernsey, Isle of Man Gibraltar, The Falklands all use pound sterling. They even make their own equivalents, and its all fully exchangeable ?
BillyHunt:
Last time I checked darling wasn’t in government, he can say what he wants as it means bugger all.
Of course he’s not in Government. But it was to Better Together campaign mooting the point that Scotland might not be able to use Sterling. Alistair Darling was reluctant to concede the point that Scotland could use Sterling. He was after all Chancellor of the Exchequer, so should know something in this area. Even if it had to be forced out of him
If the best that Scotland can do is to be reliant on the Pound Sterling,instead of an independent Scottish pound,then that’s just an admission that Scotland will sink not swim if/when it cuts its ties with the union,before it even starts.
I think Alex Salmond said they where open to a mandate for currency. But highlighted the fact, use of Sterling was perfectly fine. But you may be right, Isle of Man, Guernsey, Jersey, The Falklands, Gibraltar etc… are all sinking by using the pound
amamdada:
Who Cares, once they have independence lets finish the job and rebuild the wall,hopefully it will stop clowns like Gordon Brown and Alistair Darling coming down and ruining peoples lives by thinking they can run the country a shambles we are still recovering from ,shame there is no CPC for politicians.
First post and absolute quality. Welcome to TruckNet.
Building the wall would have a profound effect on unemployment in England. I estimate that (taking into account all the health and safety ■■■■■■■■) it would take at least 37 years to construct the wall. It needs to be higher and stronger than before. This would provide steady jobs for thousands of men and hundreds of clipboard holders.
Once the wall is built, it needs to be guarded, Game of Thrones style, forever. Jobs for life for those that want it.
amamdada:
Who Cares, once they have independence lets finish the job and rebuild the wall,hopefully it will stop clowns like Gordon Brown and Alistair Darling coming down and ruining peoples lives by thinking they can run the country a shambles we are still recovering from ,shame there is no CPC for politicians.
First post and absolute quality. Welcome to TruckNet.
Building the wall would have a profound effect on unemployment in England. I estimate that (taking into account all the health and safety ■■■■■■■■) it would take at least 37 years to construct the wall. It needs to be higher and stronger than before. This would provide steady jobs for thousands of men and hundreds of clipboard holders.
Once the wall is built, it needs to be guarded, Game of Thrones style, forever. Jobs for life for those that want it.
It’s a win win situation for England.
You’ve got no chance of a wall. The government won’t even pay out to help at Calais !!
BillyHunt:
Last time I checked darling wasn’t in government, he can say what he wants as it means bugger all.
Of course he’s not in Government. But it was to Better Together campaign mooting the point that Scotland might not be able to use Sterling. Alistair Darling was reluctant to concede the point that Scotland could use Sterling. He was after all Chancellor of the Exchequer, so should know something in this area. Even if it had to be forced out of him
If the best that Scotland can do is to be reliant on the Pound Sterling,instead of an independent Scottish pound,then that’s just an admission that Scotland will sink not swim if/when it cuts its ties with the union,before it even starts.
I think Alex Salmond said they where open to a mandate for currency. But highlighted the fact, use of Sterling was perfectly fine. But you may be right, Isle of Man, Guernsey, Jersey, The Falklands, Gibraltar etc… are all sinking by using the pound
It seems obvious that Scotland would need to create a larger totally different type of economy than any of those to keep their balance sheets in order.Larger and better performing in this case meaning larger and better pro rata than that of the UK’s.IE the currency isn’t important its the strength of the economy and its ability to create wealth that matters.By that comparison Scotland only needs a Scottish pound that is based at around the same value v Sterling as the Norwegian Krone with an economy that performs at least as well per same head of population.By that comparison Scotland has everything going for it assuming that it can capitalise on it’s manufacturing cababilities by re building it’s manufacturing base and especially if it gets its coal mining industry back on line.IE turning Scotland into at least another Norway is as good a place to start as any.In which case EU membership and staying with the overvalued pound is the worst possible choice and last place to start.
Well it seems to me that it’s actually quite simple as far as the NO campaign goes. The English politicians are scared for their jobs. They are a-b-s-o-l-u-t-e-l-y terrified of losing the Scottish tax revenue. They will never admit it and we shall have to wait thirty years to find out the truth that being if we ever do, because they will probably have managed to get it classified as an official secret. Behind the scenes big business and especially the tory ruling class, but also the ■■■■ up to the bosses labour lot and the puppet lib-dems, have done deals so shady that they are scared we might find out.
The reason for this being that without the Scottish tax revenue the English politicians know that they will have to announce massive tax rises south of the border to make up for the shortfall. They all of them know too that doing that would be the end for their careers.
Perfidius Albion . Never trust the treacherous English.
matamoros:
Anyone in the world can use sterling as a currency in the same way that many countries use the dollar, the problem in Scotlands case would be where do they obtain these pounds sterling and what do they pay for them with. The source of pounds sterling is the Bank Of England and presumably without a currency union they will not be distributing millions of pounds to Scotland’s banks free of charge.
Jersey, Guernsey, Isle of Man Gibraltar, The Falklands all use pound sterling. They even make their own equivalents, and its all fully exchangeable ?
matamoros:
Anyone in the world can use sterling as a currency in the same way that many countries use the dollar, the problem in Scotlands case would be where do they obtain these pounds sterling and what do they pay for them with. The source of pounds sterling is the Bank Of England and presumably without a currency union they will not be distributing millions of pounds to Scotland’s banks free of charge.
Jersey, Guernsey, Isle of Man Gibraltar, The Falklands all use pound sterling. They even make their own equivalents, and its all fully exchangeable ?
Scotland can use sterling fine. Half the evils in the world use US dollars after all, and the Americans are powerless to strip foreign bank accounts of “bad guy cash” that’s all over the place.
That, being the case, Scotland can use any currency they like.
It won’t be of anyone’s concern - unless they decide to print their own!
Not being allowed to “print their own” means that Scotland only have sale of assets and commodities or new taxes to raise hard cash with - whatever currency that happens to be.
Interesting to hear store chains arguing that “we’re subsidising the network in Scotland right now. If, that turns into a foreign operation - we’ll charge full whack for it, meaning prices in the shops will be at a higher premium over the residue of the UK…”
Salmond says this is just more scaremongering.
Thing is, government talking heads of any description are not able to do much other than ‘talk’.
EMPLOYERS get to do what they bloody well like on the other hand, - and should be listened to a bit more seriously methinks…
I don’t think they are making idle threats here…
The main reason for a large company to pull out of Scotland will still be “unfriendly tax regime”. NOT “anticipated” but implemented.
It would be nuts to pull out - before anyone knows what the actual implemented result looks like eh?
Winseer:
Interesting to hear store chains arguing that “we’re subsidising the network in Scotland right now. If, that turns into a foreign operation - we’ll charge full whack for it, meaning prices in the shops will be at a higher premium over the residue of the UK…”…EMPLOYERS get to do what they bloody well like on the other hand, - and should be listened to a bit more seriously methinks…
Recent retailer statements have been encourage by the PM. The very same retailers that issued statements about it last December.
Last time I looked, Waitrose had 7 stores in Scotland (in poncy areas where they can afford to pay through the nose), plus a couple of John Lewis stores. Asda in NI have the same pricing structure as the mainland. They don’t slap a load on top because the goods arrive by boat into Larne.
Winseer:
Interesting to hear store chains arguing that “we’re subsidising the network in Scotland right now. If, that turns into a foreign operation - we’ll charge full whack for it, meaning prices in the shops will be at a higher premium over the residue of the UK…”…EMPLOYERS get to do what they bloody well like on the other hand, - and should be listened to a bit more seriously methinks…
Recent retailer statements have been encourage by the PM. The very same retailers that issued statements about it last December.
Last time I looked, Waitrose had 7 stores in Scotland (in poncy areas where they can afford to pay through the nose), plus a couple of John Lewis stores. Asda in NI have the same pricing structure as the mainland. They don’t slap a load on top because the goods arrive by boat into Larne.
The comparison to NI is not a fair comparison, NI is part of the British Isles or United Kingdom, Scotland would be ABSOLUTLY nothing to do with the United Kingdom.
You couldn’t even compare it to say France, as France is in the EU and its widely accepted (even by the ‘YES’ campaign) that an independent Scotland wouldn’t be part of the EU for quite some time if ever if Spain veto it (which is expected).
Scotland would have to have its own head offices, distribution centres, call centres, wage and tax offices these are all added expenses.
It possibly is true that products are subsidised by the rest of the UK, especially remote, Highland areas. That’s the beauty of it now, many things are costed as a whole and not on an individual area. If Scotland was independent those costing would be done on Scotland alone and not the UK.
Added into the fact that Scotland as of right now will be using a currency it has no control over it all adds to the extra cost and risk factors.
Edit- also that link is from last year and states that no supermarket has said it could increase its prices, well they have now!
cav551:
The reason for this being that without the Scottish tax revenue the English politicians know that they will have to announce massive tax rises south of the border to make up for the shortfall. They all of them know too that doing that would be the end for their careers.
.
You might want to check the Scottish annual accounts, Scotland runs a deficit of 7.7Bn. As soon as Scotland goes, England will be 7.7Bn better of. We can enjoy an income tax reduction South of the border as we no longer have to prop up the Scots.
kr79:
If they go indipendent how long before someone posts on here do i need TIR forms to go to glasgow.
If I remember the TIR rules correctly, an independent Scotland without EU membership would mean Scottish hauliers would need TIR plates for euro work, you can imagine ruk and Scotland would have an agreement in place, negating the need for them, it makes no sense not to.
I’m more bothered about my O licence, my operating centre is in england but my vehicles are registered in Scotland.
Winseer:
The main reason for a large company to pull out of Scotland will still be “unfriendly tax regime”. NOT “anticipated” but implemented.
It would be nuts to pull out - before anyone knows what the actual implemented result looks like eh?
We already know what it is going to look like, the debt of Scotland will be down graded, raising the borrowing cost of an independent Scotland, the new Scottish government will have to raise taxes and cut spending immediately to pay for the cost of setting up all the infrastructure of a new country and make up the shortfall of the Barnett formula, presently Scotland receives 118% of the cost of services per capita from the UK.
Every publicly listed company has a responsibility towards its shareholders and none can remain in Scotland with its increased cost of doing business.
All the large Scottish based companies have now come out publicly stating that they will move South.
kr79:
If they go indipendent how long before someone posts on here do i need TIR forms to go to glasgow.
If I remember the TIR rules correctly, an independent Scotland without EU membership would mean Scottish hauliers would need TIR plates for euro work, you can imagine ruk and Scotland would have an agreement in place, negating the need for them, it makes no sense not to.
I’m more bothered about my O licence, my operating centre is in england but my vehicles are registered in Scotland.
There will have to be a border as England is exempt from Schengen, an independent Scotland will not be immediately entered into the EU and even once accepted into the EU will have to adapt Schengen so the border will have to remain between Scotland and England if not every scrote in Calais can freely travel to Scotland and then enter England through the back door, I can’t see England accepting that one.
