A recently divorced Scotland would be approached by the EU very quickly no doubt…
Once out of the UK, there would be no need for Scotland to sign up with anything else whatsoever. This, of course, is what America is afraid of - because that “go it alone” might well include "leaving the previous UK’s membership of NATO as well…
All this stuff about “anti federalism” gets trumped by simple national interest:
DO you want to be in charge of your own country, or do you want to be dictated to by some foreigner forever?
If Scots vote YES today - They don’t just want out of the UK - they want out of ALL of the foreign-bullcrap dictats that the UK is currently receiving.
…Therefore there’s no “failing to re-negotiate the Common Fisheries Policy” or whatever… Scotland could spurn the EU, and just start bording Spanish vessels “trespassing in their waters” - and move them on… These patrol vessels could be as little as Coast Guard PT boats - as long as they’ve got guns on them.
No one bothers Iceland any more do they?
Eveyone would be bothering them - if they hadn’t made waves in their own national interest as, and when they have done.
nearly there:
For me it boiled down to ami british or scottish.
The issue is actually one of federalist v anti federalist.Which doesn’t just stop with the choice between Scottish or British.It’s actually a choice between a British state of a federal USE.
Or Scotland/England/Wales/Ireland all with the exclusive sovereign right to self determination and to govern themselves.
the issue is you dont think like other people, you certainly dont think like i do nor value the things i do, most normal working class people know whats going on in there own towns, in there own place of work etc. there the ones who are growing in numbers now as there being hit the hardest and have been for quite a while
there is uproar going on in my own town now as the council has to build a mosque spending council tax money it can ill afford to spend but is being forced to do so, just because the eu and to be a part of being a good european dictates that it should be done
if people want to come and live here then they should have no rights to have our money paid out building them a mosque
we certainly couldnt go to there countrys and demand a ■■■■■ house be build for us or a massage palour or even a church in some countries
yet dumb old england has to keep on being the mugs of the world even when its own people say its wrong they dont listen and instead try to smear people as being racists or other bollox
like i said there is real uproar over this issue but we all know what will happen the people will not be heard and ignored yet again
you can not keep on driving people down just because a few are better off living in areas were these problems dont happen to them
sorry i have gone off topic
like i said before if scotland do vote yes it will then signal to all people that the small partys can make a change and are worth voting for
nearly there:
For me it boiled down to ami british or scottish.
The issue is actually one of federalist v anti federalist.Which doesn’t just stop with the choice between Scottish or British.It’s actually a choice between a British state of a federal USE.
Or Scotland/England/Wales/Ireland all with the exclusive sovereign right to self determination and to govern themselves.
the issue is you dont think like other people, you certainly dont think like i do nor value the things i do, most normal working class people know whats going on in there own towns, in there own place of work etc. there the ones who are growing in numbers now as there being hit the hardest and have been for quite a while
there is uproar going on in my own town now as the council has to build a mosque spending council tax money it can ill afford to spend but is being forced to do so, just because the eu and to be a part of being a good european dictates that it should be done
if people want to come and live here then they should have no rights to have our money paid out building them a mosque
we certainly couldnt go to there countrys and demand a ■■■■■ house be build for us or a massage palour or even a church in some countries
yet dumb old england has to keep on being the mugs of the world even when its own people say its wrong they dont listen and instead try to smear people as being racists or other bollox
like i said there is real uproar over this issue but we all know what will happen the people will not be heard and ignored yet again
you can not keep on driving people down just because a few are better off living in areas were these problems dont happen to them
sorry i have gone off topic
like i said before if scotland do vote yes it will then signal to all people that the small partys can make a change and are worth voting for
That is my point desypete people are fed up with the present system, like most folk I do not have a problem with the Mosque being built (infact it should be welcomed as the Muslims need somewhere to pray), however the council should not fund it nor is it any business of the EU.
If they get independence, I would like to see them physically cut off from us. Physically severed by a 10 mile wide channel. King Alex could maybe call it his moat.
All those cans of Bru and the wafers and teacakes unable to leave.
Just think, England/RUK/whatever could become an attractive holiday destination. Think about how losing the top would improve our average rainfall/temperature/hours of sun performance.
nearly there:
For me it boiled down to ami british or scottish.
The issue is actually one of federalist v anti federalist.Which doesn’t just stop with the choice between Scottish or British.It’s actually a choice between a British state of a federal USE.
Or Scotland/England/Wales/Ireland all with the exclusive sovereign right to self determination and to govern themselves.
the issue is you dont think like other people, you certainly dont think like i do nor value the things i do, most normal working class people know whats going on in there own towns, in there own place of work etc. there the ones who are growing in numbers now as there being hit the hardest and have been for quite a while
there is uproar going on in my own town now as the council has to build a mosque spending council tax money it can ill afford to spend but is being forced to do so, just because the eu and to be a part of being a good european dictates that it should be done
if people want to come and live here then they should have no rights to have our money paid out building them a mosque
we certainly couldnt go to there countrys and demand a ■■■■■ house be build for us or a massage palour or even a church in some countries
yet dumb old england has to keep on being the mugs of the world even when its own people say its wrong they dont listen and instead try to smear people as being racists or other bollox
like i said there is real uproar over this issue but we all know what will happen the people will not be heard and ignored yet again
you can not keep on driving people down just because a few are better off living in areas were these problems dont happen to them
sorry i have gone off topic
like i said before if scotland do vote yes it will then signal to all people that the small partys can make a change and are worth voting for
How does what I’m calling for,in the right for England to govern itself outside the EU with local government overruling national government,not fit in with what you’ve written there.While how does UKIP’s policy of more of the same old UK unionist agenda,in which Scottish politicians make English policy,provide what you say that you want.
Winseer:
A recently divorced Scotland would be approached by the EU very quickly no doubt…
Once out of the UK, there would be no need for Scotland to sign up with anything else whatsoever. This, of course, is what America is afraid of - because that “go it alone” might well include "leaving the previous UK’s membership of NATO as well…
All this stuff about “anti federalism” gets trumped by simple national interest:
DO you want to be in charge of your own country, or do you want to be dictated to by some foreigner forever?
If Scots vote YES today - They don’t just want out of the UK - they want out of ALL of the foreign-bullcrap dictats that the UK is currently receiving.
…Therefore there’s no “failing to re-negotiate the Common Fisheries Policy” or whatever… Scotland could spurn the EU, and just start bording Spanish vessels “trespassing in their waters” - and move them on… These patrol vessels could be as little as Coast Guard PT boats - as long as they’ve got guns on them.
No one bothers Iceland any more do they?
Eveyone would be bothering them - if they hadn’t made waves in their own national interest as, and when they have done.
Cod War II starts and ends in Scotland.
America is just a federalist zb up of a contraditory place that doesn’t know arris from its elbow.In general America ( rightly ) supported Irish nationalism with no issues concerning wether Ireland wanted to join NATO afterwards or not.So why the big issue in the case of Scotland.The reason being that America now has a far more federalist regime in power and as in all cases it views anything which goes against that idea as a threat.At least unless it suits it in the form of east European ‘nationalism’ v Russian federalism.
The idea that an independent Scotland would want to look after its fishing rights by getting out of the EU ( should be ) obvious assuming a nationalist government in any real sense of the meaning of the description.However Salmond is obviously not a real nationalist in that regard.Just like Farage he’s a federalist when it suits him and an anti federalist nationalist when it doesn’t.The fact is nationalism,national interest and anti federalism are all one and the same with no possibility of having one without the others.
nearly there:
For me it boiled down to ami british or scottish.
The issue is actually one of federalist v anti federalist.Which doesn’t just stop with the choice between Scottish or British.It’s actually a choice between a British state of a federal USE.
Or Scotland/England/Wales/Ireland all with the exclusive sovereign right to self determination and to govern themselves.
the issue is you dont think like other people, you certainly dont think like i do nor value the things i do, most normal working class people know whats going on in there own towns, in there own place of work etc. there the ones who are growing in numbers now as there being hit the hardest and have been for quite a while
there is uproar going on in my own town now as the council has to build a mosque spending council tax money it can ill afford to spend but is being forced to do so, just because the eu and to be a part of being a good european dictates that it should be done
if people want to come and live here then they should have no rights to have our money paid out building them a mosque
we certainly couldnt go to there countrys and demand a ■■■■■ house be build for us or a massage palour or even a church in some countries
yet dumb old england has to keep on being the mugs of the world even when its own people say its wrong they dont listen and instead try to smear people as being racists or other bollox
like i said there is real uproar over this issue but we all know what will happen the people will not be heard and ignored yet again
you can not keep on driving people down just because a few are better off living in areas were these problems dont happen to them
sorry i have gone off topic
like i said before if scotland do vote yes it will then signal to all people that the small partys can make a change and are worth voting for
That is my point desypete people are fed up with the present system, like most folk I do not have a problem with the Mosque being built (infact it should be welcomed as the Muslims need somewhere to pray), however the council should not fund it nor is it any business of the EU.
Politicians are out of control.
The fact that the Scottish are so far being isolated from the immigrant influx and with a population of just 5 million and not knowing the meaning of local immigrant majorities like we have to put up with in England,obviously provides them with the luxury of being able to say that the English should welcome more mosques.
Seriously have you ever seen three very bad leaders of the main parties Thatcher, Blair, Major, Ashdown, ,John Smith even Kinnock either you hated them or liked them but they could fight and argue. These 3 look like they just came out of political kindergarten oh well!
carryfast your obviously not up to date Alex is expecting to require/allow 24,000 immigrants per annum into an Independent Scotland to cope
with an ageing population and an expected massive boost in work.Must admire Alex and his SNaPpers though they have not done bad,almost/maybe
taken over a whole country while Nigel and his UKIPpers are only hoping to win a few seats,Nigel should really up his game.
A lot on here seem to be forgetting, a vote for YES isn’t a vote for Salmond, just for independence. They will have an electoral vote on who runs the country if they go independent.
waynedl:
A lot on here seem to be forgetting, a vote for YES isn’t a vote for Salmond, just for independence. They will have an electoral vote on who runs the country if they go independent.
^ This.In which case so long as the Scottish voters remembered that important fact ( doubtful ) all might not be lost just yet,regarding wether Cameron gets let off the hook and England gets stitched up big time to pay off Brown and his Unionist cronies until we know the score for sure.
Armagedon:
carryfast your obviously not up to date Alex is expecting to require/allow 24,000 immigrants per annum into an Independent Scotland to cope
with an ageing population and an expected massive boost in work.Must admire Alex and his SNaPpers though they have not done bad,almost/maybe
taken over a whole country while Nigel and his UKIPpers are only hoping to win a few seats,Nigel should really up his game.
Trust me as a marginal UKIP voter with reservations Farage’s support of the Cameron and Brown led LabLibdemCon Unionist cause has wrecked Farage’s credibility as a so called ‘anti federalist’ and handed the election to Cameron’s LabLibdem federalist allies.At least in the case of anyone who understands the difference between federalism and anti federalism.
Carryfast May 2015 is a long way off when a week in politics is a lifetime.this Scottish issue will be forgotten in days if it is a ‘No’ vote.but as a
UKIPper I just hope Nigel up’s his game and his ambition.
Armagedon:
Carryfast May 2015 is a long way off when a week in politics is a lifetime.this Scottish issue will be forgotten in days if it is a ‘No’ vote.but as a
UKIPper I just hope Nigel up’s his game and his ambition.
There’s no way that Farage can come back from nailing his colours to the federalist cause in this case which goes against everything he is supposed to stand for.The fact is both him and Salmond have wrecked their respective,supposedly anti federalist causes and handed the election to a pro EU LabLibdemCon alliance. Basically the anti EU cause has been sunk with the Scottish nationalist one before they even got off the ground because of those contradictions contained in their respective policies and Cameron knew it.Which is why he was prepared to bet his job against a Scottish yes vote in the knowledge that both Salmond and Farage would take themselves out on their respective pro EU and pro Unionist policies.
The fact is Farage was finished as soon as anyone with any sense saw him allied with Cameron let alone Brown in this case which proved that basically he is a federalist.Not an anti federalist because if he was his supposed anti federalist views would have overruled any misplaced support for the UK union.
well i was hoping for a yes vote and i am disappointed with the outcome. it was such a close things with only 10% of the vote deciding it
over 1.5 million voted to get out of the uk and only 2 million voted to stay in
if that was the size of an army i had to face if i was the leader of a 2million strong army i wouldn’t like the odds very much of winning not without huge losses that would make it a no win fight
at least the scots will get power to help there poor with them setting there own housing benefits and i am sure there will be other consessions as the people have been left behind for long enough
all well and good for scotland, now what about england ■■? will we now get a chance for a vote to remain in the uk or go it alone ? or will we get special help for our poor ?
good old nige in ukip was right on to this pointing out that the scots get something like 1000 pounds per resident in help from England at the expsense of our own poor who will get no help paying there rent from there 55 quid a week benefits
i think what the scotland vote has done is going to create a huge hole in politics, i hear of course london is going to have its own powers while the rest of england gets nothing as per normal
i wonder what things will look like in 10 years from now ■■?
desypete:
well i was hoping for a yes vote and i am disappointed with the outcome. it was such a close things with only 10% of the vote deciding it
over 1.5 million voted to get out of the uk and only 2 million voted to stay in
if that was the size of an army i had to face if i was the leader of a 2million strong army i wouldn’t like the odds very much of winning not without huge losses that would make it a no win fight
at least the scots will get power to help there poor with them setting there own housing benefits and i am sure there will be other consessions as the people have been left behind for long enough
all well and good for scotland, now what about england ■■? will we now get a chance for a vote to remain in the uk or go it alone ? or will we get special help for our poor ?
good old nige in ukip was right on to this pointing out that the scots get something like 1000 pounds per resident in help from England at the expsense of our own poor who will get no help paying there rent from there 55 quid a week benefits
i think what the scotland vote has done is going to create a huge hole in politics, i hear of course london is going to have its own powers while the rest of england gets nothing as per normal
i wonder what things will look like in 10 years from now ■■?
The fact is ‘good old Nige’ actually allied himself with Cameron and Brown in supporting the unionist cause and it’s too late for the ■■■■■■ to change his mind now by calling for English rights and English independence which is what he should have done when Cameron called the referendum by allying himself with the Scottish nationalist cause not the unionist one.The fact is when push came to shove and he had the chance to establish his supposed anti federalist credentials he proved himself to be anything but the anti federalist he pretends he is.Thereby letting down the anti EU cause in the process and handing the election to the same old LabLibdemCon alliance with people like Brown,Miliband,Clegg and Cameron calling the shots.
In which case 10 years from now will be guaranteed to see the ‘UK’ as nothing more than a state within the USE run by the USE for the USE.England and Scotland are now locked into more of the same historical bs in being just two former proud seperate nations lumbered with being nothing more than a federal dictatorship now applying the policies set by the even bigger federal dictatorship of the EU.
