Scabs

[newmercman]

Mickfly,

Why do you have to wait two years for PR?

Some have it before they even arrive in Canada, some get it within the first year, whatever, you don’t need PR to leave a crap job, I left BFS after 4 long months, I was on the HRSDC temporary foreign worker programme, I wasn’t even on the PNP at that time so I didn’t even have a nomination for residency, so you’re talking out of your eminox pal.

Drivers sitting for days over breakdowns and hanging around for loads without pay are mugs mate, simple as that, we all break down every now and again, I did a few weeks back, I took my truck into Peterbilt in Idaho Falls, they took me to a hotel which my firm paid for, I got paid $120 for the day they took to fix my truck and my meals were paid for too. At the end of November I had a load cancelled on me, I had to wait a day for my next load, I got paid for that day, if I have to reset my hours on the road, I get paid for it, ANYTHING my company tells me to do and I get paid for it, whether it’s driving, waiting or breaking down, if I’m at work, I get paid, that’s the way almost all the Canadian Companies work, the ones that don’t have to recruit drivers from abroad

Also you say it doesn’t cost the company anything to sit a truck, well how does that work then? AFAIK Canadian trucks still require paying for, they still need insurance for 365 days each year, they still don’t earn revenue while they’re parked, they still depreciate every day whether they’re moving or not

So quit your ■■■■■■■ and moaning, you chose to return to England when you got [zb]ed over at H&R, you could’ve stayed and made a success of it at another company, you moved back to England and got another job, you could’ve done the same in Canada if you didn’t have such a chip on your shoulder

[fenman]

A lot of people on here are slagging off the unions, well there are other benefits to be had from joining a union.
Years ago I was a shop steward in the old TGWU. I received a phone call one night telling me that one of our drivers had ran off the road and had been killed. He was in an AEC Mandator that is how long ago it was.
To cut a long story short, he left a widow and three children, without the might of the union behind him his widow would have got nothing.
The union had the front tyre that blew and caused the accident examined, and the conclusion was that it was damaged due to faulty manufacture.
His widow received compensation, which she would have not had without union help.

Going back to TK Bedford days. I was on strike when we were getting £10.70 for forty hours and had to work 80 odd hours to make a decent wage. The company I worked for had over 40 trucks and after 10 months I was the longest serving driver there. The strike lasted 6 weeks and the wage went up to £17.50 for 40 hours.
We lost our job because we were outvoted on a return to work, the condition was that the people who organised the strike would not be allowed back.

I also went on strike for 6 weeks during the national drivers strike, we all voted for it and all stuck together, and improved pay and conditions again.

Would I do the same today. NO
For the last 15 yrs before I retired I was an owner-driver, and as any O.D knows it is a very lonely occupation. When you are miles from home and you are wondering where the next load will come from no union in the world is going to help you, so you get into a very different mindset.

To answer the question in the post-
If someone does not agree with a strike and crosses a picket line, then that is his choice he has stood by what he said.
If someone voted to strike and then still crosses a picket line, then to my mind he is a ■■■■■■ of the first degree.
Tony

[silver_surfer]

In my opinion, unions on the whole when proposing strike action are just fighting a losing battle against market forces. Back in the day if there was a continuing massive demand for UK produced coal or ship building with lots of profit to be made then the workers would probably have got what they wanted.

Take the BA cabin staff for today’s example, BA are now uncompetitive against their rivals and are losing market share because they pay their cabin crew too much, simples. Unless they do somthing about it, they will continue to lose market share. The strike action is costing BA a fortune in lost revenue but they know it has to be seen through or else it will lead to the slow demise of the company. Market forces. Unions can be a good thing in protecting workers rights and for group negotiations but strike action is a pretty ridiculous concept.

Pretty harsh though for Fenman that he improved the pay for the workers at his previous job and then his “pals” agreed that the strike organisers should be sacked, thanks lads!!!

[del949]

strike action is a pretty ridiculous concept

It has to be an action of last resort, not first option.

Not having anything to do with Canada myself (nor wanting to) I wonder if the Brits who go over there to take crap jobs are regarded as immigrant riff raff as over here, or if the ones taking good jobs are regarded as “stealing our jobs” by the Canadians

[fuse]

I am self employed but I would like to see some strong unions in haulage because it would bring rates and conditions ie hours , parking , driver rules ect more into this century instead of the rubbish we have now in particular the stupid WTD what a joke, if I were younger and the job better I would not be self employed.

[dieseldogsix]

Big Jon’s dad:

Mark Erlite:
Anyone who has been in this situation and also those who haven’t how would you deal with it?

You’ve voted in favour for strike action and just before its official a group of these lowlife decide to abandon the union,jump in bed with management and make deals were they will be paid when the rest of you are on the gate.Strike is called off at the 11th hour what happens from then on with our scabs?
Could you all be friends again or have they crossed a line (no pun intended) that can never be forgiven and forgotten?

How would you deal with the situation?

Mark

I would never be one of the strikers in the first place, nor in any union. If I was your gaffer, you’d be collecting your P45.
I can’t abide union types that think the world owes them a living. Socialist scum the lot of them.
I wouldn’t shop in our local Coop for years because they were collecting food for the striking miners.

There, that should light a few fires, heh, heh, heh.

And kids would still be going up chimneys, you have a very narrow minded veiw of unions.

[dieseldogsix]

del949:

strike action is a pretty ridiculous concept

It has to be an action of last resort, not first option.

Not having anything to do with Canada myself (nor wanting to) I wonder if the Brits who go over there to take crap jobs are regarded as immigrant riff raff as over here, or if the ones taking good jobs are regarded as “stealing our jobs” by the Canadians

A lorry driver in Canada is thought of as riff raff believe me, I am married to one, and get it first hand from family and friends.

[coffeeholic]

Dieseldogsix:
And kids would still be going up chimneys,…

Just have a wee look around the streets and shopping areas of any town or city and you will see many kids that should definitely still be going up chimneys, preferably while the fire is still lit.

[caledoniandream]

fuse:
I am self employed but I would like to see some strong unions in haulage because it would bring rates and conditions ie hours , parking , driver rules ect more into this century instead of the rubbish we have now in particular the stupid WTD what a joke, if I were younger and the job better I would not be self employed.

Was the WTD or now WTR not and wonderfull idea of the Unions?? fairer amount of work, fairer spread of work etc.
The Unions have done their good things, but so have the Church, the Governement, Margret Tatcher, Adolf Hitler builded all these beautifull Autobahns, etc. etc. but that doesn’t make tham fantastic for the rest of the time.
But you cannot keep hanging on what was yesterday, we need to look forward, and the Unions need to look at the whole new role they are going to play in the future.
I was impressed with the actions at Honda in Swindon and Toyota in Derby where between workforce, Unions and Management a good deal got done where there will be a bigger chance that they will survive in the future, yes they had to take a pay cut and yes they will lose some money, but they where willing altogether to look outside the box and look to the future.
I was less impressed with the industrial actions at BA cabin crew and the council workers in Birmingham, this was and is an action against the public who suffer, and they will pay the price for it, because they lost the sympathy of the public.

We know that the market is improving at this moment, companies are investing again, and I think more than ever we need to put the shoulders under it and try to keep the work in the UK, and be relliable and quality workforce, instead of striking, moaning lazy ■■■■■■

[carryfast]

caledoniandream:

fuse:
I am self employed but I would like to see some strong unions in haulage because it would bring rates and conditions ie hours , parking , driver rules ect more into this century instead of the rubbish we have now in particular the stupid WTD what a joke, if I were younger and the job better I would not be self employed.

Was the WTD or now WTR not and wonderfull idea of the Unions?? fairer amount of work, fairer spread of work etc.
The Unions have done their good things, but so have the Church, the Governement, Margret Tatcher, Adolf Hitler builded all these beautifull Autobahns, etc. etc. but that doesn’t make tham fantastic for the rest of the time.
But you cannot keep hanging on what was yesterday, we need to look forward, and the Unions need to look at the whole new role they are going to play in the future.
I was impressed with the actions at Honda in Swindon and Toyota in Derby where between workforce, Unions and Management a good deal got done where there will be a bigger chance that they will survive in the future, yes they had to take a pay cut and yes they will lose some money, but they where willing altogether to look outside the box and look to the future.
I was less impressed with the industrial actions at BA cabin crew and the council workers in Birmingham, this was and is an action against the public who suffer, and they will pay the price for it, because they lost the sympathy of the public.

We know that the market is improving at this moment, companies are investing again, and I think more than ever we need to put the shoulders under it and try to keep the work in the UK, and be relliable and quality workforce, instead of striking, moaning lazy [zb].

But being a ‘reliable’,‘quality’,workforce (is’nt that the type of workforce that built the Spitfire and saved Europe from an evil bunch of murdering zb’s) is’nt going to pay the British taxes and British prices if we’ve got to earn Chinese wages to compete in the free global market zb economy.

[caledoniandream]

"Carryfast:
But being a ‘reliable’,‘quality’,workforce (is’nt that the type of workforce that built the Spitfire and saved Europe from an evil bunch of murdering zb’s) is’nt going to pay the British taxes and British prices if we’ve got to earn Chinese wages to compete in the free global market zb economy.

No, that is wrong understanding, it’s not only about the money, and we don’t need to earn Chinese wages, the picture is much bigger.
If that was true, everybody would drive a cheap TATA or some chinese car, we are still willing to pay for quality and by Europeen or Japanese.
Why would companies like Honda, Nissan and Toyota invest in the UK?
Because it has a good workforce and if they want they can do it, hard working people.
But why did neither of them buy Rover out, because the workforce was in charge of the factory and had a history of strikes, probaly quality craftsman, but would down their tools if the toilet paper was to hard that week.
That has done a lot of damage and was one of the reasons why Kia/Hyundai didn’t go ahead but went to Slovakije instead.
So let everybody have a decent wage, but be realistic, and keep the machine going, that will be the only chance of getting intrest of possible investors, and help the country on top.

Or did you think that the Miners strikes, railway strikes, transport strikes and the 500 odd strike at Rover helped to pay Brittish taxes??

If you see how little strikes there have been in Rotterdam docks (the biggest freight port in the world) and the average wage and conditions. How did they get it? Because more and more companies moved their Freight to Rotterdam because (there it comes again) they where RELIABLE.
In the end the Docks needed the labour and where willing to pay good rates for good work.
It’s a little bit like this:
If you open a door there a couple of ways to do it;

• Use a 44ton lorry and drive straight through it, but you can not close it and will sit in the cold
• Or use the key open the door and you can close it behind you and after a while it will warm up again.

With a strike a companie gives in to get the work going, but the door is still open and it’s getting cold feet and will defiantly look around for other options, or makes it’s product so expensive that it prices itself out the market.

[carryfast]

caledoniandream:

"Carryfast:
But being a ‘reliable’,‘quality’,workforce (is’nt that the type of workforce that built the Spitfire and saved Europe from an evil bunch of murdering zb’s) is’nt going to pay the British taxes and British prices if we’ve got to earn Chinese wages to compete in the free global market zb economy.

No, that is wrong understanding, it’s not only about the money, and we don’t need to earn Chinese wages, the picture is much bigger.
If that was true, everybody would drive a cheap TATA or some chinese car, we are still willing to pay for quality and by Europeen or Japanese.
Why would companies like Honda, Nissan and Toyota invest in the UK?
Because it has a good workforce and if they want they can do it, hard working people.
But why did neither of them buy Rover out, because the workforce was in charge of the factory and had a history of strikes, probaly quality craftsman, but would down their tools if the toilet paper was to hard that week.
That has done a lot of damage and was one of the reasons why Kia/Hyundai didn’t go ahead but went to Slovakije instead.
So let everybody have a decent wage, but be realistic, and keep the machine going, that will be the only chance of getting intrest of possible investors, and help the country on top.

Or did you think that the Miners strikes, railway strikes, transport strikes and the 500 odd strike at Rover helped to pay Brittish taxes??

If you see how little strikes there have been in Rotterdam docks (the biggest freight port in the world) and the average wage and conditions. How did they get it? Because more and more companies moved their Freight to Rotterdam because (there it comes again) they where RELIABLE.
In the end the Docks needed the labour and where willing to pay good rates for good work.
It’s a little bit like this:
If you open a door there a couple of ways to do it;

• Use a 44ton lorry and drive straight through it, but you can not close it and will sit in the cold
• Or use the key open the door and you can close it behind you and after a while it will warm up again.

With a strike a companie gives in to get the work going, but the door is still open and it’s getting cold feet and will defiantly look around for other options, or makes it’s product so expensive that it prices itself out the market.

[/quote]
If they take the idea of the global free market economy to it’s logical conclusion a Tata is all that the average British worker will be able to afford (if they’re lucky).The reason why we’re priced out of the market is because of the lack of any protectionist trade barriers to protect (what should be) a higher paid workforce working in a developed,mature,western economy not throw our doors open to cheaply made zb made by low paid workers in a zb country like China.We’re heading down hill with no brakes and we’re throwing,what should be,a civilised developed country to the commy wolves.Which effectively means that all of the civilised services and living standards that we’ve taken for granted here since the end of WW2 will just be a thing of the past.

But yes those previous strikes over the years,which got wage levels up,did help pay for more taxes because the more you earn the more you pay in income tax.The problem came when idiots like Thatcher threw it all away because of political dogma.So now we pay more to import coal for our power stations,dug by lower paid foreign miners,than we paid for our own coal dug by British miners who (would have been) paid more and therefore also contributed to the nations public services unlike now.

[big_jon_s_dad]

del949:
I wonder if the Brits who go over there to take crap jobs are regarded as immigrant riff raff as over here, or if the ones taking good jobs are regarded as “stealing our jobs” by the Canadians

No because, for a start, most of the population are either immigrants themselves, or their recent ancestors were immigrants. Secondly, in the areas that recruit immigrant drivers, there is a surplus of job vacancies. In Alberta it was joked that the only qualification you needed for most jobs was a pulse. When I visit my kids, I see all the help wanted signs in store windows and even at the side of the road outside premises.

As an example this link: jobbank.gc.ca/res-eng.aspx?P … Student=No has all the truck driving vacancies notified to the goverment job bank site. At the time of posting there were 245 job vacancies for truck drivers in Alberta alone. (population 3 million) You can change the search criteria to look at the other provinces or at other job catagories.

[big_jon_s_dad]

Dieseldogsix:
And kids would still be going up chimneys, you have a very narrow minded veiw of unions.

See, that is what unions do for you. They took away all those poor kids opportunity to earn a living.

I wondered what happened to all the chimneys, damned unions got rid of them did they? There was me blaming gas fired central heating.

How many kids can one chimney sweep keep busy and how many chimney sweeps are there anyway Can’t be that many, so if the best thing we can say about unions is that kids no longer go up chimneys, it begs the question, what good are unions?

[big_jon_s_dad]

Dieseldogsix:
A lorry driver in Canada is thought of as riff raff believe me, I am married to one, and get it first hand from family and friends.

You are calling your partner riff raff? Dear me, is it deserved?

You need to say where your family and friends are, as I find it difficult to beleive Canadians regard all truck drivers as riff raff.
There may be some that qualify for the description but I’m not sure their occupation is especially relevant.

My kids say they get treated with more respect in Canada as drivers than they got in the UK.

[big_jon_s_dad]

Carryfast:
The reason why we’re priced out of the market is because of the lack of any protectionist trade barriers

If you have trade barriers it makes all the imported tat more expensive or we have to make our own tat.

We then can’t export our tat because the other countries that we raised trade barriers against, play ■■■ for tat, and keep us out of their market.

Have you thought this though properly? Are you willing to forgo the big telly, the cheap clothes, the exotic foods etc we have available because of the global market.
You want to return to the 1950’s?

[big_jon_s_dad]

fuse:
I am self employed but I would like to see some strong unions in haulage because it would bring rates and conditions ie hours , parking , driver rules ect more into this century instead of the rubbish we have now in particular the stupid WTD what a joke, if I were younger and the job better I would not be self employed.

I have been both an employee and self employed, at one point both at the same time!
I won’t willingly become an employee again, I don’t like having someone else telling me what I must do.
If I was an employee and in a union I would have both a manager and a union official telling me what to do. ■■■■ that for a game!

As a self employed person I decide what I want to do and if I don’t want to do something I don’t do it.
I pick and choose my customers according to that principle and it works well for me.
Consequently, picking up on another thread, I love my job.

[dieseldogsix]

Big Jon’s dad:

Dieseldogsix:
A lorry driver in Canada is thought of as riff raff believe me, I am married to one, and get it first hand from family and friends.

You are calling your partner riff raff? Dear me, is it deserved?

You need to say where your family and friends are, as I find it difficult to beleive Canadians regard all truck drivers as riff raff.
There may be some that qualify for the description but I’m not sure their occupation is especially relevant.

My kids say they get treated with more respect in Canada as drivers than they got in the UK.

When I said I was married to one I meant a Canadian, I thought you may have worked that out, family and friends are in Ontario, Canadians are very good at hiding there real opinions, so’s not to offend, the only people I met who thought truck drivers were all right ,were people involved in the business.

[del949]

If I was an employee and in a union I would have both a manager and a union official telling me what to do. [zb] that for a game!

I don’t know how long since you left Canada, or how long you lived and worked in the UK as an employee befor that but you have some really antiquated ideas abot unions

[big_jon_s_dad]

Dieseldogsix:

Big Jon’s dad:

Dieseldogsix:
A lorry driver in Canada is thought of as riff raff believe me, I am married to one, and get it first hand from family and friends.

You are calling your partner riff raff? Dear me, is it deserved?

You need to say where your family and friends are, as I find it difficult to beleive Canadians regard all truck drivers as riff raff.
There may be some that qualify for the description but I’m not sure their occupation is especially relevant.

My kids say they get treated with more respect in Canada as drivers than they got in the UK.

When I said I was married to one I meant a Canadian, I thought you may have worked that out, family and friends are in Ontario, Canadians are very good at hiding there real opinions, so’s not to offend, the only people I met who thought truck drivers were all right ,were people involved in the business.

Uhoh, I’m Canadian but living in the UK for 42 years I must have lost the ability to not offend anyone.
My wife says I’m very good at offending people. Mainly because I don’t give a hoot!
There again, maybe you didn’t meet the right people! All I can go by is what I hear from my kids, plus what I experience when I visit.