Mickfly, you the same Mickfly as on BD1forum?
del949:
Mickfly, you the same Mickfly as on BD1forum?
Eyup Del I was wondering the same about you 5 mins ago LOL, yes.
Most of the views of unions seem to have thier origins in the 1970’s and closed shops, this is image is perpetuated by certain rags for thier own political agenda.
I’m sure most union members have never been on strike, manned a picket line or even had a major dispute with thier employer, but this doesn’t make a good story especially if it doesn’t suit the agenda of those reporting it.
In the same way there are bad unions there are bad employers
Of course it’s easy to say well if I don’t like I’ll leave and get a better job, (I have done this several times myself) but it’s not always possible. If you are a certain age or live in certain areas finding another job might not be so easy.
Or you may have many years service with a company, then it gets taken over by a major company, can you as an induvidual really fight your corner against them when they want to change your work and conditions of employment? I doubt as an induvidual you’ll even have a chance to have your say. In fact as has been said many large companies need some sort of workforce representation just to be able to deal with thier employees.
It’s all really a question of balance, if one side has to much power then in the end both sides suffer.
As for the OP how would I deal with those who kept working, not sure I’ve never been in that position, I may have even been one of those who didn’t go on strike. As anybody who knows me knows I definetly wouldn’t be forced to by others opinions or even bullying.
mickfly:
Big Jon’s dad:
I am a genuine Canadian Citizen by the way, not a “Canadian” trucker.Yes we know you are a genuine Canadian Citizen (I wasn’t referring to you), and luckily when your lad went to work in Canada he didn’t go as a temporary foreign worker for a BS company, but went straight to hourly pay on box vans.
I have 3 sons there now, all on box vans, 2 are salaried, 1 is hourly paid.
The drivers who have the gumption to get off their arses and move to another country do not do it lightly, and unfortunately believe the lies of the big companies, although there only seems to be one left recruiting in the UK now, that’s H&R Transport.
The companies that recruit from abroad only do so because they are crap companies that can’t find enough Canadians willing to work for them. The good Canadian companies can recruit drivers in Canada. Canada only wants good quality immigrants that will contribute to the prosperity of the country. Educated people can apply for immigration in the normal way. The other way for people without good academic qualifications to get in, is to work in a job that there aren’t enough locals to fill. These are the crummy jobs that nobody wants. After doing the crap job for a time you can apply to stay and then you can get a better job. If you can’t stick it out for 2 years you should stay where you came from. The alternative is the UK immigration system which lets any old riff raff in. How many posters here think Canada should let riff raff in?
“It seems most of the Canadian drivers (expat brits) that post here are quite happy with their lot”
These are the drivers who have PR (permanent residency, usually gained a few years ago) and in many cases were willing to accept BS working conditions to get it (their choice).
The ones who were not willing to work for nothing and chose to come back last about 2 mins on these forums as they are immediately subjected to personal attacks by the people who feel guilty about taking it up the jaxy for two years!
Some people make it, some fall by the wayside. If something is really desirable people will work hard to obtain it. Some people will just ■■■■■ about it instead.
I don’t see anyone who appears to be feeling guilty about succeeding.
I have friends who are still over there, and they put up with breakdowns lasting days (NO PAY), sitting in company yards all day waiting for a trailer(NO PAY) then running 13 hrs through the night.
Sitting at meat plants for hours, where 36hrs is not uncommon, (NO PAY).
If you get sacked with ‘just cause’ (no proof required) you are screwed, no unions, no welfare benefits AT ALL, and you will end up back in blighty, broke.BTW: "It didn’t work for you, it didn’t work for Robbbie either. Hmm, you aren’t Robbbie are you?
Any way, stop ■■■■■■■■ about it and do something else. The world doesn’t owe you anything, you have to work to get where you want to be."Thanks for the personal insults, I’m not Robbie, and I have ALWAYSs worked hard and done VERY well, BUT I will not work for nothing, here or anywhere else, and if you go to Canada as a Temporary Foreign Worker, you will work for nothing.
That is simply not true. When I stay in my usual hotel in Edmonton, each visit I see the same Filipino guy that does the rooms over ready for the next guests. He is paid quite well and supports his family on his wage. He on a TWP and is applying for PR.
Maybe the unions should set up shop in Canada.
We already have unions. I don’t think much of them either.
Question
There are a number of us here that have no time for unions, yet we seem to be doing OK without them.
There are other posters here that seem to like unions, but some of them appear to be depressed with their situation, or maybe they really are oppressed by the bosses. 
What makes us differ?
Big Jon’s dad:
I have 3 sons there now, all on box vans, 2 are salaried, 1 is hourly paid
None as mileage (only) paid long haul truckers?
It’s a whole different ball game.
Big Jon’s dad:
Canada only wants good quality immigrants that will contribute to the prosperity of the country. Educated people can apply for immigration in the normal way. … These are the crummy jobs that nobody wants. … If you can’t stick it out for 2 years you should stay where you came from.
Big Jon’s dad:
Some people make it, some fall by the wayside. If something is really desirable people will work hard to obtain it. Some people will just ■■■■■ about it instead.
Being willing to work hard is not a problem, but when you are paid by the mile, you are not in control of your earnings as it costs the company nothing if they sit you all day in a yard, whilst you earn bugger all, but you’re right, I shouldn’t ■■■■■ about the crap Canadian companies, nor should I warn others eh?
Mickfly:
BTW: "It didn’t work for you, it didn’t work for Robbbie either. Hmm, you aren’t Robbbie are you?
Any way, stop ■■■■■■■■ about it and do something else. The world doesn’t owe you anything, you have to work to get where you want to be."Thanks for the personal insults, I’m not Robbie, and I have ALWAYSs worked hard and done VERY well, BUT I will not work for nothing, here or anywhere else, and if you go to Canada as a Temporary Foreign Worker, you will work for nothing.
Big Jon’s dad:
That is simply not true. When I stay in my usual hotel in Edmonton, each visit I see the same Filipino guy that does the rooms over ready for the next guests. He is paid quite well and supports his family on his wage. He on a TWP and is applying for PR.
This is a truckers forum, what does an hourly paid bed maker have to do with a mileage paid long haul driver?
BTW: Are you a truck driver?
strikes get you no where as said before if you dont like your wage ■■■■ off and find another job and someone else will have yours simple
Big Jon’s dad:
:?: QuestionThere are a number of us here that have no time for unions, yet we seem to be doing OK without them.
There are other posters here that seem to like unions, but some of them appear to be depressed with their situation, or maybe they really are oppressed by the bosses.
What makes us differ?
There are plenty of posts on this website of people who aren’t in unions who have problems with their employers.
If you’re lucky enough to be in a job you enjoy and don’t have any problems then you are truely fortunate, but as I’ve found to my cost they don’t always last.
fuse:
I envy the railway workers and firemen with their unions just look at the pay and conditions,the hours the security…no east europeans under cutting them,we are fools and dont come back and say their jobs are more skilled than ours we all sell ourselves short because to many ask how high do I jump,whats the fine ,whats the new rule that is good for me, WTD poa,s dont make me laugh
Erm on the above you could hardly see Edy fire engines or Willi Betz ones for that matter so its a little of a no brainer.
I currently manage drivers in Liverpool and there is no union in the workplace, that being said and maybe its the area that i work in now they seem to attempt to qoute articles of employment law when you ask them to do an extra delivery on their normal round. My personal experience of unions is firstly they all seem to be based in Liverpool, or the head honco is from the Liverpool area of which well known work shy capitol of England. I have no doubts that the strikes of years ago helped carve out certain employment rights that we have today. But we are governed by the wonderful (irony) EU now and as such the only thing you do by striking now a days is generate contempt. Contempt from those you cause additional grief towards, contempt from your employer, contempt from their customers and most of all contempt from the millions out of work who would like to do the job that you are lucky to do at the moment.
As has been said if there is a protest about the closure of a cancer ward, childrens day care centre or critical service then i would agree - but in the scenario of pay rises when we are all on the bones of our backsides rolling our sleaves up is just downright greedy.
Big Jon’s dad:
:?: QuestionThere are a number of us here that have no time for unions, yet we seem to be doing OK without them.
There are other posters here that seem to like unions, but some of them appear to be depressed with their situation, or maybe they really are oppressed by the bosses.
What makes us differ?
I’ve never needed a union, nor had much time for the ones I’ve seen in action, but I was in one when I got a job at a ‘closed shop’ company, BUT, without workers getting organised many years ago, we would still have children down the pits and in the mills.
Your opinion is biased, because as a self employed business person you wouldn’t need a union anyway, would you?
There you go with personal insults again, implying that anyone who disagrees with you and supports unions is ether depressed or oppressed!
Big Jon’s dad:
:?: QuestionThere are a number of us here that have no time for unions, yet we seem to be doing OK without them.
There are other posters here that seem to like unions, but some of them appear to be depressed with their situation, or maybe they really are oppressed by the bosses.
What makes us differ?
It could be the sort of company they work for?
I have only worked for one company big enough to require any union involvement, the one company I did work for that had a union was the only one that didn’t treat it’s workforce with any respect, I wondered if that was because every time they talked to the work force it would be through the union who were as obstructive as they thought they could be and an atmosphere of confrontation was always felt between the workers and the company bosses.
Apart from that all the jobs I have had have been with small companies and everything was done through mutual agreement.
I now work for myself and think I need a union in if I ever want to have another holiday 
keebs26uk:
strikes get you no where as said before if you dont like your wage [zb] off and find another job and someone else will have yours simple
The only way to do it nowaday, and I have always voted with my feet.
mickfly:
if you go to Canada as a Temporary Foreign Worker, you will work for nothing.
Big Jon’s dad:
That is simply not true. When I stay in my usual hotel in Edmonton, each visit I see the same Filipino guy that does the rooms over ready for the next guests. He is paid quite well and supports his family on his wage. He on a TWP and is applying for PR.This is a truckers forum, what does an hourly paid bed maker have to do with a mileage paid long haul driver?
It shows that your statement quoted above is inaccurate.
BTW: Are you a truck driver?
Check my profile. I have a website that shows what I do for a living. midlanddryerservices.co.uk
I hold a C+E UK licence and have done for 35 years, but I don’t drive trucks for a living, which most posters here are well aware of.
What difference does it make? My kids drive trucks.
mickfly:
Big Jon’s dad:
:?: QuestionThere are a number of us here that have no time for unions, yet we seem to be doing OK without them.
There are other posters here that seem to like unions, but some of them appear to be depressed with their situation, or maybe they really are oppressed by the bosses.
What makes us differ?
I’ve never needed a union, nor had much time for the ones I’ve seen in action, but I was in one when I got a job at a ‘closed shop’ company, BUT, without workers getting organised many years ago, we would still have children down the pits and in the mills.
Your opinion is biased, because as a self employed business person you wouldn’t need a union anyway, would you?
There you go with personal insults again, implying that anyone who disagrees with you and supports unions is ether depressed or oppressed!
Ah but I was in a union a long time ago. I had no choice, my employer at that time was International Time Recording and I had car factories on my area where I had to service the master clock, the dial clocks and the time recorders. As the car factories were closed shops, no-one could work there except union members. ITR paid my union dues so they could send me into the car factory.
Of course I’m biased, aren’t you?, Isn’t everybody to some degree? No insult was implied but you seem determined to be insulted. I knew a couple of guys from Liverpool that were like that. Always thinking you were having a go at them. Really amusing they were when they were giving it out but they couldn’t take it back. You remind me of them. I know you are from Bradford but you come across as a self appointed victim just like those guys from Liverpool. (cue outraged cries of insults, but not just any insults, Personal Insults!)
Big Jon’s dad:
Of course I’m biased, aren’t you?, Isn’t everybody to some degree? No insult was implied but you seem determined to be insulted. I knew a couple of guys from Liverpool that were like that. Always thinking you were having a go at them. Really amusing they were when they were giving it out but they couldn’t take it back. You remind me of them. I know you are from Bradford but you come across as a self appointed victim just like those guys from Liverpool. (cue outraged cries of insults, but not just any insults, Personal Insults!)
“No insult was implied”
Do you mean none was intended? because the insults were certainly implied, and the whole of the quote above IS a personal insult.
If you can’t debate without insults, don’t bother, just carry on telling us how crap the UK is, and how great Canada is, but don’t go back there.
mickfly:
Big Jon’s dad:
Of course I’m biased, aren’t you?, Isn’t everybody to some degree? No insult was implied but you seem determined to be insulted. I knew a couple of guys from Liverpool that were like that. Always thinking you were having a go at them. Really amusing they were when they were giving it out but they couldn’t take it back. You remind me of them. I know you are from Bradford but you come across as a self appointed victim just like those guys from Liverpool. (cue outraged cries of insults, but not just any insults, Personal Insults!)“No insult was implied”
Do you mean none was intended? because the insults were certainly implied, and the whole of the quote above IS a personal insult.
If you can’t debate without insults, don’t bother, just carry on telling us how crap the UK is, and how great Canada is, but don’t go back there.
If you want to be insulted, carry on, you seem to love it. I did mean intended, or maybe I meant I didn’t intend to imply an insult.
If anyone doesn’t immediately agree with you, you start screaming “Insults, personal insults”. That is why you seem to be a self appointed victim. This is not an insult, it is an observation.
So far you haven’t debated anything. All you’ve done is bitched about how tough it was for you in Canada. Your supporters seem to be somewhat lacking in their support.
Everyone here knows moving to Canada on TWP is tough. How many times do you need to tell us already! Anybody with any sense researchs all that sort of stuff before they make such a major decision and only a fool would do otherwise. But then companies that have a high turnover of drivers know there are plenty more fools ready and willing to take a leap in the dark.
Some of them tough it out and achieve their dream.
I don’t think I’ve ever told anyone here that the UK is crap. If it was that crap I wouldn’t stay here as I am free to come and go between here and Canada as I please. It is certainly overcrowded here with all the riff raff (that is an insult in case you missed it, but not an insult to you unless you consider yourself to be riff raff. ) and travelling around is not as easy as in Canada. I have explained elsewhere why I don’t choose to live in Canada at the moment. I may change my mind when I retire or if things get too bad here.
sorry…decided to erase and not to get sued …lol …jimmy. 
mickfly:
All the replies from ‘Canadian’ truckers who are paid by the mile, and are happy to sit on loading docks for hours on end with no pay, or sit around company yards all day, then run all night, just like the good old days in the UK before the unions screwed everything up by getting rid of weight/load/time bonuses and helping to bring in some protection for fatigued drivers who were under pressure to kill themselves for the boss!
Mick, have you been at the shandy? We all know how you feel, but let me give you an example of how you are wrong.
Take the last 2 days. I left the yard at lunchtime yesterday. I drove reasonably hard, right to the legal maximum (1311kms, 13 hours) then rolled the last hour to the drop today. Went straight on a dock then left there and went to reload 170 kms south. I went in, signed their book, opened the doors, backed on the bay and they loaded me.
Now to the rest of your post. The unions destroyed industry in the UK. They made it inviable to employ the people needed to do the job because everyone wanted shorter hours and the same money. OK, so if the car makers met the demands then the price of the cars went up and ordinary schlupps like me could not afford them, ergo, sales went down and short time was introduced because they weren’t making as many cars so the pratts went on strike again.
End result, Toyota are just about the only sodding car builder in the UK…
The miners were plain greedy and thought the government would topple. They knew the mines would flood but didn’t care. They knew coal would be shipped in and thought they could stop it. They couldn’t, but still maintained they were right. They lost, and they damned well deserved to lose.
mickfly:
All the replies from ‘Canadian’ truckers who are paid by the mile, and are happy to sit on loading docks for hours on end with no pay, or sit around company yards all day, then run all night, just like the good old days in the UK before the unions screwed everything up by getting rid of weight/load/time bonuses and helping to bring in some protection for fatigued drivers who were under pressure to kill themselves for the boss!
Yawn,here we go again.Old bitter and twisted trying to turn this into another anti-Canada rant.Sure there are guys as you portray,and some enjoy the lifestyle,but it’s not for everyone.That is why we post good reports from our experiences,because we have got off our backsides and found decent employers who reward us well for our efforts,very well indeed.
In my book if you have ALL agree to get out STAY out. YES they are scabs and I’d have nothing to do with them, (two faced zd). Sorry on this one but if its a collective agreement dont go with policy. These are supposed to be your muccers, friends. This country was screwed by Thachter and as a result the unions have no teeth, yes their fault but… What is the point of a collective agreement if you dont stick with it? THIS IS THE POINT. A collective agreement. As such they are ■■■…H. How can you trust get on with a person like that I couldnt. Sorry I’d rather a died a poor man with princilples than a rich man without.
I’m NOT for the work shy zb so and so so’s in any respect but where do you draw the line? Roll over and play dead?