Scabs

[newmercman]

Reading through, and participating, in this thread ther’s one thing that stands out to me…

We all believe that anybody who has a different opinion to our own is wrong, maybe if we were to look at the bigger picture and put a combination of people’s views together we could come up with a solution to the problems that we face.

We’ve seen that pure capitalism does not work, just as socialism doesn’t, Carryfast has a hard on for our little yellow friends, but they are a superpower in terms of industry and therefore have a stable economy, they have achieved this with a mix of capitalism and socialism, but ask the little yellow man on the street and I doubt he’s very happy with his lot, working all hours for a pittance. Now look at the other side of the coin, ask the union worker in Detroit if he’s happy, he will be earning top money for doing an easy day’s work and will be grinnning from ear to ear, but then ask the same question to the American equivalent of the Chancellor and he will be crying his eyes out, is it possible to make the Chinese worker and his paymasters happy? I doubt it.

The reason the world economy is in such a state is down to us, the people, we want it all and we want it now, we don’t want to work our nuts off for it either. Back in the 50s and 60s when the unions were helpful in making working conditions better the workers were happy to walk to the factory, they didn’t expect to drive to work in a new car, they were happy to eat dripping sandwiches for lunch, they didn’t expect a fancy M&S sarnie, they were happy to nip down the pub for a couple of pints of local ale, they didn’t expect a choice of 100 imported beers to choose from, they were happy with a black and white TV and 3 channels, they didn’t need sky+ and HD on a 60" flat screen, Margate and Blackpool were the favoured holiday destinations, maybe Benidorm if you were loaded, now it’s 3 weeks in Disneyland or the Maldives. We all have internet and some of us have it on our phones, how many kids of junior school age have mobile phones?

We live like Kings and yet we still do a blue collar job, just as our Forefathers did, in fact we work less than they did, take the Liverpool Dockers as an example, they used to physically lift every box or crate, now they drive a straddle carrier, we only do simple jobs and yet we expect to have every luxury we can, in order to do this the factories had to shut down and move East so that the little yellow man can make all our fancy gadgets, you have to admit that it’s a bit hypocritical calling someone a scab if you’re happy to sort out your own little space on this planet, yet you don’t care about the poor little yellow man living in a straw hut and working 18hr days to make your fancy goods

[bobthedog]

Christ, Mark… that was a bit deep!!

But it was also very well put.

Personally, as a man living in an igloo in a frozen wasteland, I do have sympathy for that little yellow man in his straw hut. But that little yellow man is also working and earning, and he is in a communist state. The fact that he is earning very little is because he lives in a communist state. The “commies”, as our delusional, cyber warrior friend calls them, do not consider they need a union as they are all equal. So that little man who solders the leads onto keyboards is represented by the countries leaders.

That is down to them, not you or I as consumers. They elected to allow western businesses to start up there, and the modern world allowed their companies to set up shop there by not doing anything to make them stay domestic. And then there were the unions which, in the UK, made it impossible for a business to thrive.

[spacemonkeypg]

My god you really do have a chip shop on your shoulder don’t you?

You seem to be stuck in a time where most people have moved on from, you remind me of the old man at the end of my street when i was younger, who used to call then “new” 10p two bob long after the old two bob vanished. You have dragged more and more historical nonsense into this thread the deeper you dig yourself into a hole. You justify your outlandish statements with attempted fear mongering into Asian people and their commerce market.

God forbid we find life outside of this planet and start trade relations with them. I think you head would blow off with the shear complex prosperity of it all. But let’s say that day came i am sure you would still attempt, in vain to state that the Union’s made the western world and should continue to attempt to bring the country to its knees, while causing anarchy and killing in the name of it’s failing lost cause.

When you do bring your head out of the 1960-70’s hole that its stuck up, i am still waiting to see how you can justify a unions requests in today’s world. Using the tube drivers as example number one.

In reference to your bigotry and your racist comments the below is completely out of order.

Assuming that you’re not some loopy Chinese commie loving anti american zealot

those zb’s in the Orient

If they’d have left the zb

fighting those Oriental zb’s

The Japanese said that the yanks were on a loosing battle even after the yanks had dropped a zb A bomb on the zb’s. It’s just that the blokes who dropped it would never have believed that the yanks would then give the zb’s everything they wanted afterwards.

Drag your sorry self into 2011 for god’s sake.

[bobthedog]

+2^^^… The wife would agree if she were here…

[coffeeholic]

Spacemonkeypg:
God forbid we find life outside of this planet and start trade relations with them. I think you head would blow off with the shear complex prosperity of it all.

Don’t be so sure, we would need to know if the people from outside this planet used 6x4’s or 6x2’s before we can work out how he would react.

[spacemonkeypg]

lol

“we’ve had bigger spaceships in hear before sunny!” “one had a bigger trailer and was 6x4”

[bobthedog]

I think you will find the other planets trucks are 6x6 with all mod cons like teleporters…

And I think he must have been abducted by aliens and saw these trucks… For one thing, he certainly posts like a space cadet…

[carryfast]

newmercman:
Reading through, and participating, in this thread ther’s one thing that stands out to me…

We all believe that anybody who has a different opinion to our own is wrong, maybe if we were to look at the bigger picture and put a combination of people’s views together we could come up with a solution to the problems that we face.

We’ve seen that pure capitalism does not work, just as socialism doesn’t, Carryfast has a hard on for our little yellow friends, but they are a superpower in terms of industry and therefore have a stable economy, they have achieved this with a mix of capitalism and socialism, but ask the little yellow man on the street and I doubt he’s very happy with his lot, working all hours for a pittance. Now look at the other side of the coin, ask the union worker in Detroit if he’s happy, he will be earning top money for doing an easy day’s work and will be grinnning from ear to ear, but then ask the same question to the American equivalent of the Chancellor and he will be crying his eyes out, is it possible to make the Chinese worker and his paymasters happy? I doubt it.

The reason the world economy is in such a state is down to us, the people, we want it all and we want it now, we don’t want to work our nuts off for it either. Back in the 50s and 60s when the unions were helpful in making working conditions better the workers were happy to walk to the factory, they didn’t expect to drive to work in a new car, they were happy to eat dripping sandwiches for lunch, they didn’t expect a fancy M&S sarnie, they were happy to nip down the pub for a couple of pints of local ale, they didn’t expect a choice of 100 imported beers to choose from, they were happy with a black and white TV and 3 channels, they didn’t need sky+ and HD on a 60" flat screen, Margate and Blackpool were the favoured holiday destinations, maybe Benidorm if you were loaded, now it’s 3 weeks in Disneyland or the Maldives. We all have internet and some of us have it on our phones, how many kids of junior school age have mobile phones?

We live like Kings and yet we still do a blue collar job, just as our Forefathers did, in fact we work less than they did, take the Liverpool Dockers as an example, they used to physically lift every box or crate, now they drive a straddle carrier, we only do simple jobs and yet we expect to have every luxury we can, in order to do this the factories had to shut down and move East so that the little yellow man can make all our fancy gadgets, you have to admit that it’s a bit hypocritical calling someone a scab if you’re happy to sort out your own little space on this planet, yet you don’t care about the poor little yellow man living in a straw hut and working 18hr days to make your fancy goods

Don’t think that the Chinese were ever socialist at all.It’s pure totalitarian communism just like the Russians had although they called the place Socialist.The fact is,just like in that example of the Spanish Civil War,there’s a big difference and it’s possible for Communism and Fascism to effectively just be the same thing as shown by the co operation which took place between Germany and Russia before Hitler turned on his Russian allies and George Orwell’s (correct) findings about that type of society.It’s just that the communists are’nt clever enough to realise it.I think you’ll also find that it’s the hypocricy of American big business led government,in fighting communism when it suits them,like in Vietnam,and then taking advantage of the cheap labour profit potential,provided by a dictatorship led and exploited workforce it can provide,that is likely to cause the collapse of the economy and the destabilisation of American society in the long term.

But your comparison between the now (ex redundant) unionised Detroit factory worker versus the Communist Chinese counterpart is totally wrong.The Chinese worker has supported a dictatorial regime which has then used the difference in the conditions to take the livelihood away from the American worker who ‘was’ under the impression that the American ideal of ‘working class’ meant something entirely different to the Chinese worker’s ideals.That American worker never supported the idea of walking everywhere and would’nt have been happy eating bread and dripping sarns and rice for lunch either.Whereas the Chinese worker’s expectations would have been closer to that ideal but without bothering with the bread and dripping. But if you’re right about American and British workers in the 1960’s being happy to walk to work who was it who bought all those Mustangs that they sold in the 1960’s and how was it that my Dad drove to work every day around 10 miles each way not walked.

However the fact is that dictatorial communism has actually resulted in the Chinese worker’s standard of living increasing to a small extent while the American worker’s standard of living has fallen by a much bigger level because of the so called American government,which ‘should have been’ working in the American worker’s interests,handing the American’s work to the Chinese worker.If only all of those who died in the Vietnam War knew that Communism is ok just so long as there’s money to be made out of it for big business.

[bobthedog]

So, to summarise, the whole issue in the UK with the unions and the workforce is all to be blamed on the Americans, the Japanese, the Chinese and now the bloody Spanish and Hitler in the 2nd World War…

It has nothing to do with selfish, ignorant people who demanded too much…

The world according to curryfart…

[carryfast]

bobthedog:
So, to summarise,

It has nothing to do with selfish, ignorant people who demanded too much…

The world according to curryfart…

So why did’nt they say that to all of those Americans and Australians before they went and died in Vietnam fighting for what.But how can someone on ordinary industrial shop floor wages be selfish,ignorant demanding too much out of the cake when we’ve got bankers and others who actually produce nothing who earn much more .

But as you’re obviously someone who seems happy about those in a position to do so profiting by getting stuff made by an exploited communist workforce at the expense of your own country’s workers your logic is’nt surprising.

But yeah it has everything to do with selfish,ignorant people who demanded too much but it’s just that you’re blaming the wrong people.

[bobthedog]

Now the Vietnamese??

And you say you are not a globalist…

OK, so how is it that, for 20 years, I was a worker in the UK. I always found work- ALWAYS! I always earned money. Not always great money, but a wage. I managed this without the benefit of a union membership, and I managed it on my abilities. Thus far, I have never been fired, and have not received a verbal or written warning. I have worked as hard as I could to better myself. I always took overtime, and have, on occasion, had 2 jobs at the same time.

Personal choice, that is what it was. So I will be damned if any union sleazebag supporters are going to take my choice away from me simply because they want soft crapper paper and a marker pen on string that they can write insults about their bosses on the wall with.

I work hard here, too. I have spent 5 years here working hard, and I shall continue to do so. And no union scumbags are going to stop me here, either. I have the 2 cars, the house, the guns… Nothing I have is of poor quality really. Nothing I had over there was of poor quality either. And I, as a driver, was probably considered, by someone like you, to be low paid. Yet I was able to sustain a good standard of living, as I do here. I have the things I need and many of the things I want on top of needs. Soon I shall be buying a new rifle, a Winchester Model 70… the best hunting rifle… ever.

So what the ■■■■ are you chittering on about? The unions would have done no better for me. I would be in a worse position because they do nothing for free really. Even if their fighting for you because you got caught smoking in the toilet costs in the end. And that is all they were fit for in their latter years, for fighting for the people who had broken rules. There was little left that needed fighting for. Exploitation was largely a thing of the past.

So you are talking utter ■■■■■■■■ as always, but have introduced yet another country…

[carryfast]

bobthedog:
Now the Vietnamese??

And you say you are not a globalist…

OK, so how is it that, for 20 years, I was a worker in the UK. I always found work- ALWAYS! I always earned money. Not always great money, but a wage. I managed this without the benefit of a union membership, and I managed it on my abilities. Thus far, I have never been fired, and have not received a verbal or written warning. I have worked as hard as I could to better myself. I always took overtime, and have, on occasion, had 2 jobs at the same time.

Personal choice, that is what it was. And that is all they were fit for in their latter years, for fighting for the people who had broken rules. There was little left that needed fighting for. Exploitation was largely a thing of the past.

So you are talking utter ■■■■■■■■ as always, but have introduced yet another country…

Yes Vietnam because if you know your history it was the Chinese who backed the Vietcong and who got around 50,000 Americans killed and a lot more maimed for life.But after that the American government,who sent those Americans to die out there on an anti communism crusade,were happy enough to invest in Chinese industrial growth and give,what were,relatively higher paid American manufacturing jobs to them in order to take advantage of Communist lower living standards,in the context of lower Communist wage rates and it’s dictatorial government concerning dissent and therefore more profitability potential.If that’s not hypocricy and exploitation then what is .

But just like you my 25 year work record was just as good and my time as a union member was way outweighed by the amount of time that I was’nt.Ironicically the only time that I recieved a disciplinary warning was because of a dispute concerning a collective agreement made between the union and my employers on my behalf and which I had’nt been consulted about and never agreed to.So it does’nt always follow that collective agreements are always not in the guvnor’s favour and sometimes it’s possible to find the union backing the guvnor’s position against the members on the shop floor,in which case the guvors seem happy enough to take the union position if it suits them,in just the same way that many of those on the management side,who shouted loudest against communist infiltration in the union movement,were happy enough to get involved with communism when there’s a few quid to be made out of it.

But having said all that I’m enough of a realist to know that living standards will collapse if wages are’nt kept in line,or ahead of,prices and taxes and in general and it’s not in an employer’s interests to do that without some strong bargaining methods being applied and maybe the reason why you’ve always,so far,managed on your ‘abilities’ is because the civilised western economies have only got to where they are,but won’t be for much longer,because wage levels in the economy (in general not just your own private little bit of it) have been kept at relatvely better levels than they are in China,by a lot of Union bargaining in different industries over the years,which resulted in workers having enough money to keep the economy moving and to therefore pay for your services.

But I’ve never known any guvnors who would’nt reduce their labour costs or get more productivety for the same level of wage expenditure if they could and the employees abilities are never a factor in that equation because most employers don’t have inability to do the job as one of their employment criterea when they hire staff.Ability is usually taken for granted by the employer but wage levels can usually never be taken for granted by the employee.

[bobthedog]

Funny that. I thought it was the USSR that stirred that pot as well, and now the UK uses their gas… (Ah hell, should I not have mentioned gas in this thread). Also, it was 58000 US service people that died. I do know my history. I also know that, twice in the last 100 years, Germany has been at war and cost Britain, Canada and many other countries millions of lives, yet everyone trades with them and they are the banking nation of the EU. In fact, in the batlle that raged from July 1st 1916, the allies lost 58000 men, and most of them in the first couple of hours.

So take your twisted nonsense and find someone who believes you and actually cares what you think. The Viet nam war has sod all to do with your cronies striking in Britain and killing their own industries, and if you look at the title of this thread, that is the real subject. My abilities are good enough that I can find work. I have a good enough record that I can. I am earning as much, actually slightly more, than I was last year, and I am earning considerably more than 2 years ago. That is because most bosses, regardless of what you think, are not “commies”.

They are in business to make money. If they can shave a few quid off their overheads by fitting timers on the lights in the crappers then they are wise to do so. Yet you would probably say that 10 minutes is not long enough. The fact you are so full of ■■■■ would be the reason, not the bosses lightswitches.

[jimti]

Carryfast:
I was only on around £25 per week myself in 1976.But that was because I was on a 17 year old trainee engineer’s wage.But the usual wage was a good £50 per week + at that time so as usual it’s a re writing of history again.Just like your idea that it was the NUM’s idea to flood the pits and seal them up not Thatcher’s.

I think you will find I said it was the NUM that stopped the “SCABS” going down the pits and by doing so allowed them to flood

Carryfast:
But yeah right that cheap tele comes at the price of higher taxes and lower wages in the economy in general to pay for the lost income taxes,dole payments,and the distortions in the free labour market caused by cheap foreign competition and you still don’t seem to get it that an economy can’t stay solvent by importing cheap teles and paying for them with money ‘earnt’ as a nation of shopkeepers and hamburger cafe operatives.But there’s not much point in having a cheap tele anyway if the incomes earnt in this economy of yours don’t pay enough to afford the taxes,gas and electric bills,car running costs,and the mortgage let alone the medical costs needed to cover the family when we have to shut the NHS down because there’s no way that surgeons will operate on a sick child for the type of wages that anyone can earn to pay them if they’ve got to compete in the free global market economy.So it’s Taiwanese/Chinese state health care or nothing .Unions running the country instead of this bunch of overpaid hypocrites who’ve sold the country down the river.Why not it can’t be any worse.

We didn’t have a Car or A house of our own, as my parents couldn’t afford either, same as everyone down our road and most of the people we knew. One of my friends parents did have a car, but he was a farmer and to be honest it was more of a work vehicle, we all lived in Council houses as well apart from the farmer. I am guessing you came from a more middle class background than me.
I do know I have money in the bank now, where my father, (never a day out of work) had very little savings, I have two cars, (my dad once owned a moped) and I am living quite comfortably thank you very much! (my dad struggled to make ends meet) on the other hand he did have better music, the ■■■■■■ revolution (but my mum wouldn’t let him reap the benefits) and of course he had the Unions to change the Government so he didn’t need to worry about voting in the wrong lot
I think I prefer what I have to be honest!

[carryfast]

bobthedog:
Funny that. I thought it was the USSR that stirred that pot as well, and now the UK uses their gas… (Ah hell, should I not have mentioned gas in this thread). Also, it was 58000 US service people that died. I do know my history. I also know that, twice in the last 100 years, Germany has been at war and cost Britain, Canada and many other countries millions of lives, yet everyone trades with them and they are the banking nation of the EU. In fact, in the batlle that raged from July 1st 1916, the allies lost 58000 men, and most of them in the first couple of hours.

So take your twisted nonsense and find someone who believes you and actually cares what you think. The Viet nam war has sod all to do with your cronies striking in Britain and killing their own industries, and if you look at the title of this thread, that is the real subject. My abilities are good enough that I can find work. I have a good enough record that I can. I am earning as much, actually slightly more, than I was last year, and I am earning considerably more than 2 years ago. That is because most bosses, regardless of what you think, are not “commies”.

They are in business to make money. If they can shave a few quid off their overheads by fitting timers on the lights in the crappers then they are wise to do so. Yet you would probably say that 10 minutes is not long enough. The fact you are so full of [zb] would be the reason, not the bosses lightswitches.

That’s a co incidence because after winning those wars with Germany at the cost of all those lives we then paid for the place and it’s industries to be re built through British taxes.Then those same workers who’d fought against those Germans and then paid out more money to re build the place,and it’s industries,were told that they were’nt worth the same amount of wages as a German worker was.So yet more hypocricy by British government and employers.

[jimti]

Carryfast:
Ironicically the only time that I recieved a disciplinary warning was because of a dispute concerning a collective agreement made between the union and my employers on my behalf and which I had’nt been consulted about and never agreed to.So it does’nt always follow that collective agreements are always not in the guvnor’s favour and sometimes it’s possible to find the union backing the guvnor’s position against the members on the shop floor,in which case the guvors seem happy enough to take the union position if it suits them,in just the same way that many of those on the management side,who shouted loudest against communist infiltration in the union movement,were happy enough to get involved with communism when there’s a few quid to be made out of it.

So to go back through all this thread are you for or against the Unions, or in other words would you vote for some collective that would do to you what I have highlighted in Your post?

[carryfast]

jimti:

Carryfast:
I was only on around £25 per week myself in 1976.But that was because I was on a 17 year old trainee engineer’s wage.But the usual wage was a good £50 per week + at that time so as usual it’s a re writing of history again.Just like your idea that it was the NUM’s idea to flood the pits and seal them up not Thatcher’s.

I think you will find I said it was the NUM that stopped the “SCABS” going down the pits and by doing so allowed them to flood

Carryfast:
But yeah right that cheap tele comes at the price of higher taxes and lower wages in the economy in general to pay for the lost income taxes,dole payments,and the distortions in the free labour market caused by cheap foreign competition and you still don’t seem to get it that an economy can’t stay solvent by importing cheap teles and paying for them with money ‘earnt’ as a nation of shopkeepers and hamburger cafe operatives.But there’s not much point in having a cheap tele anyway if the incomes earnt in this economy of yours don’t pay enough to afford the taxes,gas and electric bills,car running costs,and the mortgage let alone the medical costs needed to cover the family when we have to shut the NHS down because there’s no way that surgeons will operate on a sick child for the type of wages that anyone can earn to pay them if they’ve got to compete in the free global market economy.So it’s Taiwanese/Chinese state health care or nothing .Unions running the country instead of this bunch of overpaid hypocrites who’ve sold the country down the river.Why not it can’t be any worse.

We didn’t have a Car or A house of our own, as my parents couldn’t afford either, same as everyone down our road and most of the people we knew. One of my friends parents did have a car, but he was a farmer and to be honest it was more of a work vehicle, we all lived in Council houses as well apart from the farmer. I am guessing you came from a more middle class background than me.
I do know I have money in the bank now, where my father, (never a day out of work) had very little savings, I have two cars, (my dad once owned a moped) and I am living quite comfortably thank you very much! (my dad struggled to make ends meet) on the other hand he did have better music, the ■■■■■■ revolution (but my mum wouldn’t let him reap the benefits) and of course he had the Unions to change the Government so he didn’t need to worry about voting in the wrong lot
I think I prefer what I have to be honest!

So that shows what no political direction means.I come from a ‘middle class’ background because my Dad worked in a reasonably well paid shop floor job in manufacturing but I support the idea of strong unions in the context of keeping wages at reasonable levels versus prices.Like me he did’nt agree with council housing on the basis that it’s just a way of subsidising low wage employment.However we then had a so called Tory government which stole that housing,built on the taxes paid by my Dad and others,and then gave it away at lower than market value to the tenants who mostly then sold it on in the private market for a profit.If that does’nt prove my case that Thatcher was a Commie what does.

[jimti]

Carryfast:
If that does’nt prove my case that Thatcher was a Commie what does.

I won’t bother replying to the rest of the dribble coming out of your posts. This just ends the argument
I have now sussed you out, we need some of this on the thread for you

[bobthedog]

If you go off at many more tangents, you will be a ■■■■■■■ starfish!!

If you are middle class then you should be all for enterprise and initiative. If you don’t understand the big words, copy and paste them into a dictionary because I can’t be bothered to explain. Your dad managed to hold down a good job, but you were unable to stand in his footsteps then?

After all, a middle class night trunk/gritter driver, who owns a Jag, who has more opinions based on crap than the entire government and opposition combined, who can’t punctuate a sentence, who is so contradictory that you probably get whiplash from your direction changes… You couldn’t possibly get concussion… that would require a brain… Maybe we should call you strawman!!

[carryfast]

jimti:

Carryfast:
Ironicically the only time that I recieved a disciplinary warning was because of a dispute concerning a collective agreement made between the union and my employers on my behalf and which I had’nt been consulted about and never agreed to.So it does’nt always follow that collective agreements are always not in the guvnor’s favour and sometimes it’s possible to find the union backing the guvnor’s position against the members on the shop floor,in which case the guvors seem happy enough to take the union position if it suits them,in just the same way that many of those on the management side,who shouted loudest against communist infiltration in the union movement,were happy enough to get involved with communism when there’s a few quid to be made out of it.

So to go back through all this thread are you for or against the Unions, or in other words would you vote for some collective that would do to you what I have highlighted in Your post?

Take your own advice and keep the troll spray for yourself.The idea of unions is’nt perfect sometimes they get it wrong and sometimes they hire leaders who have’nt got a clue when it comes to representing the members interests just like the government and the country.That does’nt mean that they’re a lost cause and with a bit of thought and some decent teeth they could still work just as they have in history in keeping wage rates high enough to keep the economy solvent.But we’ve had Thatcher’s ideas for the last 30 years and look where it got us.But it’s not surprising to see that free speech is’t liked in the brave new world.