The A50 Uttoxeter roundabout is a hotspot for rollovers,about 1 aweek go over there.
Scotch Corner was the same before they put the traffic lights in, used to be one a month on there (coming from 66 to A1 south, they’d roll at the corner into the services).
My area for the heavy recovery there, but no more juicy jobs there any more.
In almost every case … the driver is to blame. The only exception can be when some pillock pulls out in front and causes him or her to swerve. Every driver should be aware of how his load will react on curves, bends and roundabouts etc and adjust your driving to suit it. If you roll over on a bend it’s your fault, a roundabout it’s your fault after overtaking it’s your fault.
People critisise the way I drive a loaded liquid tanker up route 22A in Vermont which is a twisty and very hilly single carriageway abd all I tell them is if you want to pass me then do so but I know exactly how the load will react on every little curve and dip and i am not gonna risk killing myself or anyone else. I have seen too many good men die for taking thte risks.
Are your tanks smooth barrels Pat?
newmercman:
Are your tanks smooth barrels Pat?
Yep … it’s like a giant 3 liter coke bottle with nothing to stop the flow.
Camelot has a lot of rollovers, but are never blamed… 
Pat Hasler:
newmercman:
Are your tanks smooth barrels Pat?Yep … it’s like a giant 3 liter coke bottle with nothing to stop the flow.
Crazy, I know they’re easier to clean that way, but they spend more time on the road than in the wash bay 
I was following a tanker through the Smokey Mountains on I-40 at the TN/NC line, he was driving like an old woman, no overtaking for trucks there and I was empty, on the way to a reload, so was jogging on, he was driving me mad, slowing down well before the bends etc. I was talking to DC about it and he told me the tanks over here were usually smooth barrels, no wonder the bloke was taking it steady. Good job I hadn’t started gobbing off at him on the radio
Juddian:
What happened to driving by the seat of yer pants and using a bit of common bloody sense, AND looking at the road layout and surface you are about to encounter.
They have banned it under H&S rules.
-
Driving instructors use the mantra, gears to go brakes to slow.
-
SAFED Instructors teach everyone to drive in top gear and I have just been involved in a Q&A that says that the vehicle must be in top gear before it gets to 40mph.
Number 1 could answer Armagedons post about hot brakes, non of this advice about using gears and keeping brakes fresh.
Number 2 could be the reason that when a vehicle gets into trouble he cannot drive through it or pull out of the problem because he is in too high a gear.
Think how a motorbike works, if you want to go straight and stand it up, you open the throttle, race & rally drivers use heel and toe braking, that allows them to drive out of a corner.
If you let any wheeled machine freewheel it is out of control.
Much of this applies to trucks, although not the heroics…
I found this info http://www.millbrook.co.uk/Page/Tilt-Testing regarding how your Buses Fire trucks and ambulances never seem to rollover,with or without a auto box fitted, that’s because they are designed differently to have the lowest center of gravity possible, Unlike your average truck, plus they in most cases are rigid 's which are less likely to rollover
I would bet that the number of articulated or wag n drag’s that have rolled over is grater than the number of rigid trucks, So i would say that the design of the truck and probably more importantly it’s trailer play a significant part , and as for all rollovers being down to driver error, what about when the weather high winds throw trucks around ?
Was told by the shunter where I work (the depot it was from) the other day that the driver of the M5 Volvo 12 plate crash was 72 but nobody is really saying what happened to cause the accident. They think they will be able to repair it rather than replace. Was told the driver came out of it OK but most of it is just work hear-say so to speak.
Wheel Nut:
[
They have banned it under H&S rules.
Driving instructors use the mantra, gears to go brakes to slow.
SAFED Instructors teach everyone to drive in top gear and I have just been involved in a Q&A that says that the vehicle must be in top gear before it gets to 40mph.
Number 1 could answer Armagedons post about hot brakes, non of this advice about using gears and keeping brakes fresh.
Number 2 could be the reason that when a vehicle gets into trouble he cannot drive through it or pull out of the problem because he is in too high a gear.
Good, hope they continue to untrain new licence holders, i imagine when the surviving old school* come up for retirement that we’ll not exactly be shunted out the door, and will be OK for a couple of days a week, thats certainly the case of some competent retirees i know, the companies are only too pleased to keep them going.
*still using maxiumum engine braking in an appropriate gear, and will continue to do so till we hang our keys up for the last time, quite certain my old (proper) instructor turns in his grave at the new methods of instruction and the daily results of it.
I kept out of the auto argument in this thread…there could be something in this in my humble, i notice that our auto MAN’s will, unless you override the box, change gear every single bloody time half way round a roundabout, now a 440 MAN has about as much torque as a Trabant with a duff plug so its difficult to tell if its in gear or not 
, but as you rightly say at no point on a roundabout or bend should the vehicle be freewheeling unless the proper driver desires it.
In practice a good driver with a proper gearbox is resuming power around the apex of the corner to pull the thing out of the corner, having selected the appropriate gear before, not mincing about half in and out of gears and waiting interminably whilst the bloody computer decides the elastic band can be unleashed.
I’ve said this times before, but how did satans auto box as fitted to daf/man/iveco get past type approval.
Dunno wot 'appened there, double posted
tommy t:
I found this info http://www.millbrook.co.uk/Page/Tilt-Testing regarding how your Buses Fire trucks and ambulances never seem to rollover,with or without a auto box fitted, that’s because they are designed differently to have the lowest center of gravity possible, Unlike your average truck, plus they in most cases are rigid 's which are less likely to rolloverI would bet that the number of articulated or wag n drag’s that have rolled over is grater than the number of rigid trucks, So i would say that the design of the truck and probably more importantly it’s trailer play a significant part , and as for all rollovers being down to driver error, what about when the weather high winds throw trucks around ?
In general if a lorry blows over in the wind, the wind can be partly blamed, as can the driver, unless there is a hurricane or typhoon, not many coupled trailers blow over unless they are driving too fast for the conditions
Wheel Nut:
tommy t:
I found this info http://www.millbrook.co.uk/Page/Tilt-Testing regarding how your Buses Fire trucks and ambulances never seem to rollover,with or without a auto box fitted, that’s because they are designed differently to have the lowest center of gravity possible, Unlike your average truck, plus they in most cases are rigid 's which are less likely to rolloverI would bet that the number of articulated or wag n drag’s that have rolled over is grater than the number of rigid trucks, So i would say that the design of the truck and probably more importantly it’s trailer play a significant part , and as for all rollovers being down to driver error, what about when the weather high winds throw trucks around ?
In general if a lorry blows over in the wind, the wind can be partly blamed, as can the driver, unless there is a hurricane or typhoon, not many coupled trailers blow over unless they are driving too fast for the conditions
the only contributory factor in a rollover that you could blame the driver for in a scenario involving gale force winds is doing his job and/or being jockey at the time, as storm force gusts of wind can & do suddenly occur and you also have(zb’s)AKA bosses /planners that will still push the driver regardless, they get away with it because the authorities don’t yet have a system in place to restrict lgv movements once a certain criteria is met ,they just issue warnings and it’s left open to take your chances or maybe loose your job!!! in such a case i would put the blame on the company NOT the driver
The thing is nowadays all in house training is abount fuel economy not necerceraly safe driving in a tricky situation. Perhaps some drivers are so worried about getting a blocking about something on isotrack they are more concerned about keeping in the green rather than slowing down and speeding up thus knocking fuel economy than been safe.
Wheel Nut:
Juddian:
What happened to driving by the seat of yer pants and using a bit of common bloody sense, AND looking at the road layout and surface you are about to encounter.They have banned it under H&S rules.
Driving instructors use the mantra, gears to go brakes to slow.
SAFED Instructors teach everyone to drive in top gear and I have just been involved in a Q&A that says that the vehicle must be in top gear before it gets to 40mph.
Number 1 could answer Armagedons post about hot brakes, non of this advice about using gears and keeping brakes fresh.
Number 2 could be the reason that when a vehicle gets into trouble he cannot drive through it or pull out of the problem because he is in too high a gear.
If you let any wheeled machine freewheel it is out of control.
Much of this applies to trucks,
I think there’s a difference between the issues of the modern ideas of how to approach a roundabout etc compared to the issues concerning rollovers.The former is just a flaw in the the accepted way in which instructors think that a truck should be brought down to a lower speed on the approach whereas the latter is all about the fact that the truck hasn’t been brought down to low enough speed at all regardless of what was actually used in the slowing down process and/or has been steered through a bend or roundabout etc using the wrong steering inputs.
The only way that there might be a connection between the brakes to slow gears to go idea and roll overs is that it’s obvious that leaving it in a high gear on entry will often also mean that it’s going at a higher speed than it would have been if it had been slowed down on the approach using the good old fashioned idea of engine braking using sequential downshifts on the approach long before reaching the hazard 
.
But the use of heel and toe is all about the same idea of sequential downshifts on the approach to a bend etc by braking and downshifting using the throttle to match the engine speed to road speed,at the same time.The pedal positioning and the sensitivety of air brakes effectively makes it an impossibility with trucks.
Carryfast:
Wheel Nut:
Juddian:
What happened to driving by the seat of yer pants and using a bit of common bloody sense, AND looking at the road layout and surface you are about to encounter.They have banned it under H&S rules.
Driving instructors use the mantra, gears to go brakes to slow.
SAFED Instructors teach everyone to drive in top gear and I have just been involved in a Q&A that says that the vehicle must be in top gear before it gets to 40mph.
Number 1 could answer Armagedons post about hot brakes, non of this advice about using gears and keeping brakes fresh.
Number 2 could be the reason that when a vehicle gets into trouble he cannot drive through it or pull out of the problem because he is in too high a gear.
If you let any wheeled machine freewheel it is out of control.
Much of this applies to trucks,
I think there’s a difference between the issues of the modern ideas of how to approach a roundabout etc compared to the issues concerning rollovers.The former is just a flaw in the the accepted way in which instructors think that a truck should be brought down to a lower speed on the approach whereas the latter is all about the fact that the truck hasn’t been brought down to low enough speed at all regardless of what was actually used in the slowing down process and/or has been steered through a bend or roundabout etc using the wrong steering inputs.
The only way that there might be a connection between the brakes to slow gears to go idea and roll overs is that it’s obvious that leaving it in a high gear on entry will often also mean that it’s going at a higher speed than it would have been if it had been slowed down on the approach using the good old fashioned idea of engine braking using sequential downshifts on the approach long before reaching the hazard
But the use of heel and toe is all about the same idea of sequential downshifts on the approach to a bend etc by braking and downshifting using the throttle to match the engine speed to road speed,at the same time.The pedal positioning and the sensitivety of air brakes effectively makes it an impossibility with trucks.
I was not suggesting a lorry driver has to learn to heel and toe, what I am getting at is the fact that any vehicle should be powered out of a corner, not going in too fast and trying to sort it out whilst freewheeling.
A car, motorbike or lorry are at their most unstable whilst braking, wrong steering input also makes the vehicle unstable.
Remember the mantra, and many others before me.
Slow In, Fast Out!
Swiss Tony 
when I taught my kids to drive I told them to use the brakes as little as possible. Using forward planning and downshifts to slow down, as practice we would see how far we could go without touching the brakes.
But then when they had a few “proper” lessons they were told to approach roundabouts in top gear then hit the brakes. 
It always makes me laugh at the amount of people I follow downhill that have their brakes on all the way down, while I roll down in a low gear without using my brakes.
triple-tango:
when I taught my kids to drive I told them to use the brakes as little as possible. Using forward planning and downshifts to slow down, as practice we would see how far we could go without touching the brakes. But then when they had a few “proper” lessons they were told to approach roundabouts in top gear then hit the brakes.
That’s because what the industry considers to be the best advice on how to drive has evolved, as vehicle technology has. The idea of trying not to use the brakes came from a time when they didn’t stop you very well, easily locked-up (particularly when empty), and faded away to nothing half way down a long hill. I was taught that all that stuff too, a long time ago, by old men.
All these problems have been solved by the engineers, so it’s sensible that people’s driving changes too. If the brakes are working properly, then they’re better at stopping you than the engine - there’s every reason to use them.
Or perhaps it’s all a conspiracy constructed by Ferado…
wilbur:
triple-tango:
when I taught my kids to drive I told them to use the brakes as little as possible. Using forward planning and downshifts to slow down, as practice we would see how far we could go without touching the brakes. But then when they had a few “proper” lessons they were told to approach roundabouts in top gear then hit the brakes.That’s because what the industry considers to be the best advice on how to drive has evolved, as vehicle technology has. The idea of trying not to use the brakes came from a time when they didn’t stop you very well, easily locked-up (particularly when empty), and faded away to nothing half way down a long hill. I was taught that all that stuff too, a long time ago, by old men.
All these problems have been solved by the engineers, so it’s sensible that people’s driving changes too. If the brakes are working properly, then they’re better at stopping you than the engine - there’s every reason to use them.
Or perhaps it’s all a conspiracy constructed by Ferado…
Or maybe it’s these old men who had a point, modern technology and engineering up against those age old things called inertia and gravity.
I still like to use my motorcycling analogy. In the TT the machinery being used was far inferior to today’s modern stuff but lap records were still set & broken, regularly. This was done by the riders being super smooth. You cannot compare riders ability over the years, because that was then, this is now, but John Hartle, Agostini and Hailwood were setting fast laps on machinery with half the power and capacity. Phil Read was the last of the old men to ride comparable engine classes with 1000cc engines
Rossi never raced against Agostini, but they were both at the top of their game. Jim Clark never met Sebastian Vettel.
No one is trying to say that driving a lorry is a race, but the lessons learned on the race track can be carried forward. forward planning, smooth, considered steering input and concentration.