triple-tango:
when I taught my kids to drive I told them to use the brakes as little as possible. Using forward planning and downshifts to slow down, as practice we would see how far we could go without touching the brakes.
But then when they had a few “proper” lessons they were told to approach roundabouts in top gear then hit the brakes.
It always makes me laugh at the amount of people I follow downhill that have their brakes on all the way down, while I roll down in a low gear without using my brakes.
Correct, keep the momentum going! Use your gears, plan and accelerate out of said obstacle!
triple-tango:
when I taught my kids to drive I told them to use the brakes as little as possible. Using forward planning and downshifts to slow down, as practice we would see how far we could go without touching the brakes. But then when they had a few “proper” lessons they were told to approach roundabouts in top gear then hit the brakes.
That’s because what the industry considers to be the best advice on how to drive has evolved, as vehicle technology has. The idea of trying not to use the brakes came from a time when they didn’t stop you very well, easily locked-up (particularly when empty), and faded away to nothing half way down a long hill. I was taught that all that stuff too, a long time ago, by old men.
All these problems have been solved by the engineers, so it’s sensible that people’s driving changes too. If the brakes are working properly, then they’re better at stopping you than the engine - there’s every reason to use them.
Or perhaps it’s all a conspiracy constructed by Ferado…
As I remember it the ‘evolution’ came about based on the simplistic money saving idea that brakes are easier and cheaper to replace than transmissions and drivelines all based on the bs assumption that engine braking knackers drivelines.The fact that the manufacturers still fit exhaust brakes and Jake brakes and customers still spec them shows the contradiction between the ideas of the bean counters and driving instructors compared to the real world.
In this case ‘the old men’ were right and the idea of approaching hazards in high gear and relying on just the brakes is a flawed idea that goes against the basics of driving in which engine braking on the approach,using sequential downshifting,and being in the right gear at the right speed when entering,negotiating and exiting a hazard is just as important as braking then or now.
As for the engineers and modern braking abilities the racing comparison is relevant as no brakes are more advanced or more effective than those used in racing applications and no surprise even in that environment sequential downshifting on the approach and engine braking is as important now as it was in the 1950’s and before.The only difference after that is how fast something can actually negotiate a bend and a racing car can negotiate it a lot faster than a truck can with the difference that if you find the limit a race car will spin or go straight off whereas a truck will just roll over every time.Simples.
this is all getting very complicated.you go too fast in a corner,you crash.get the speed off before negotiating the roundabout ffs.
from what i have seen,most rollovers have one thing in common…the driver was not concerned about his load going over in the back of the truck,i.e tippers and containers.so they tank it round roundabouts so that everyone can see how good they are…and then fall off
knob heads…and dangerous with it
commonrail:
this is all getting very complicated.you go too fast in a corner,you crash.get the speed off before negotiating the roundabout ffs.
from what i have seen,most rollovers have one thing in common…the driver was not concerned about his load going over in the back of the truck,i.e tippers and containers.so they tank it round roundabouts so that everyone can see how good they are…and then fall off
knob heads…and dangerous with it
It isn’t complicated, just remember the lesson from Swiss Tony.
Slow in - Fast Out.
Never coast round any corner or roundabout, keep the engine driving the wheels and not the wheels driving the engine.
As with other posts, I have driven tankers for more years than I care to remember, road barrels with baffles, multi compartment tanks and lift tanks without baffles, although the load moves around it is still secure. I still drive a tilt or a curtainsider with the same care.
we`re not talking about going through a corner/roundabout at the greatest speed possible though are we
slow in… slow out …straighten up… power
leave all that clipping the apex malarky to the track day boys
commonrail:
we`re not talking about going through a corner/roundabout at the greatest speed possible though are we
slow in… slow out …straighten up… power
leave all that clipping the apex malarky to the track day boys
No one is trying to say that driving a lorry is a race, but the lessons learned on the race track can be carried forward. forward planning, smooth, considered steering input and concentration.
Wheel Nut and Carryfast are on the money. Smoothness is the key, that translates to two things, downshifting and using the engine brake to slow on the approach and driving through the bend/roundabout in a smooth consistent manner
As Carryfast mentioned earlier, the Detroit Diesel… oh no, that wasn’t this thread…yet Allowing the vehicle to settle on its suspension is the key to smooth cornering, ideally you make one steering input that gets you through the whole bend, a roundabout is three bends if you are going straight on, left, right and left, allowing a little bit of going straight between turning left and turning right (and vice versa) will stop the pendulum effect and help keep those wheels on the ground
commonrail:
we`re not talking about going through a corner/roundabout at the greatest speed possible though are we
slow in… slow out …straighten up… power
leave all that clipping the apex malarky to the track day boys
No one is trying to say that driving a lorry is a race, but the lessons learned on the race track can be carried forward. forward planning, smooth, considered steering input and concentration.
No we are not, as I mentioned in the earlier post
i know…i was just trying to make the point that you don`t need to be worrying about the complexities of race track science,just to get a truck through a roundabout without falling off
newmercman:
Wheel Nut and Carryfast are on the money.
I never expected that sentence to be seen on these forums
I am not teaching anyone to ■■■■ eggs, but even the driving instructors are drivng empty vehicles, some have never driven a loaded one. The old men that were mentioned had been out on the roads before passing the exam, normally on HGV L plates or in a rigid, but they were loaded, all the same.
Dave the Renegade:
Undulating roads and air suspension on trailers are contributing factor to roll overs in my opinion.
All new drivers should have a day out in a short wheelbase tractor unit on springs, pulling a loaded 20’ box on a short neck steel sprung 20’ skelly, that will teach them that they have to be prepared for a roundabout or sharp bend…and if they balls it up, a chain in each corner post and it’s back on its wheels again in no time
Hitting a roundabout at maximum velocity used to be my method of checking the oil in my car, if the oil light came on, I needed to top it up a bit
I’m fascinated and impressed by this thread subject and the knowledge of the contributors. Just to name a few off the top of my head, Juddian, Carryfast, Winseer, newmercman , WheelNut, Dave the Renegade, et.al…many practical analyses of everyday driving… take a bow. No substitute for experience in proper driving eh?
FFS who needs DCPC? Read this forum.
Solly:
I’m fascinated and impressed by this thread subject and the knowledge of the contributors. Just to name a few off the top of my head, Juddian, Carryfast, Winseer, newmercman , WheelNut, Dave the Renegade, et.al…many practical analyses of everyday driving… take a bow. No substitute for experience in proper driving eh?
FFS who needs DCPC? Read this forum.
In the words of the Madonna song this used to be my playground and it taught me a lot before I started driving commercials.
I can`t believe that no one has mentioned the feeling through the arse…That is connected directly to the brain…Add a bit of common sense and it aint rocket science is it?
Like when you sit on a jet plane, you can feel every movement in the air, it aint as smooth as you think!
ashbyspannerman:
What happened to the presumption of innocence? I know the driver that went over near Monmouth, it wasn’t his load, he was empty, he is a very experienced driver, his truck is the sister one to mine, it wasn’t his speed either, we both know what happened, obviousley it’s not something i’m going to announce on here when investigations are still in progress, please don’t judge fellow drivers when you don’t know what actually happened!
Was that the guy who went upthe bank on the last downhill from Symonds Yat towards the roundabout at Monmouth, I helped get him out of his cab? I know he was empty because one of my questions to him was “is there anything on the load the fire service may need to know about” and he replied that he was empty and was kept out by another truck who duly ■■■■■■ off. He went a fair way up the bank and I was amazed when he stepped out thru the hole we had made in his screen. I offered him to sit in my cab till the Feds etc turned up because I was worried about shock setting in but he preferred to stand
Grasshopper:
On the front of Motor Transport this week it has the picture of the ND truck and the Micra, dont know how the woman survived that un-hurt.
Have seen a few roll overs on the A43, one the other week. Never nice to see. Some drivers do fly round the roundabouts though.
On Thursday, I was coming off A14 onto A12 - A14 from felix direction onto A12 towards London - you can use the inside 2 lanes, I was on the inside lane, 3 cars infront of me, nowt behind me. 2 trucks went up the next lane, fair enough, 1st 1 went round with the cars, but 2nd 1 cut my nose right off on cut in so I had to brake even though I’d set off slow anyway, he was driving a container wagon, went round the corner far too quick and far too tight and then cut into my lane taking my nose off AGAIN, and I just cruised past him and told him he was a stupid ■■■■■■
I only had cane furniture on, so could’ve beat him to the roundabout with ease, but that would’ve created a difficult situation, so thought I’d let him go, but he just couldn’t drive for toffee, racing round like he was in a Lotus, he’s lucky he didn’t go over and very lucky that he didn’t hit my truck with his ‘skill’
There was absolutely no need for it, but all I was thinking at the time was ‘that’s how it happens then…’
Allowing the vehicle to settle on its suspension is the key to smooth cornering, ideally you make one steering input that gets you through the whole bend, a roundabout is three bends if you are going straight on, left, right and left, allowing a little bit of going straight between turning left and turning right (and vice versa) will stop the pendulum effect and help keep those wheels on the ground 
