Right - You Moanning Lot

[denis_f]

north surrey haulage:
I dis-agree.

The bad drivers will still be bad drivers (afterall they have already been trained to a professional standard when they passed their C/C+E test.

some have only been trained to pass the test

All that will happen is they will do enough to pass the test & then walk away saying the course was a load of carp and they know more than any course because THEY already think they are the best driver on the road!

you could be right 99% of drivers think they are above average drivers

If EVERY drivers has to have one then how does that seperate the wheat fRom the chaff?
A better idea would be to leave the status quo and introduce a “voulantary” course that would certify anybody taking it as basic through to advanced/expert to show their skills level.

but how many people would do a voluntary course ? it certainly wouldn’t be the ones who needed more training !

Also this will do nothing to alleviate the “driver shortage” we keep hearing about.

No, but it might solve the problem of undertrained drivers coming to this country from abroad

What about the person who already has a C/C+E who had a change of career but is thinking about coming back to wagoneering?
When they find out they’ll have to spend a week in a classroom paid for out of their own pocket … do you think this legislation will encourage them back?

No, I expect it will put them off completely

[tramper]

Pete, you probably are better for training etc, but you expect other peole to pay for it. I employ qualified drivers to drive lorries. It is up to them to comply with the latest laws. We will never agree on this subject, so I’m going to give up now befor e we fall out
Oh, hang on Youv’e edited your post! Back in a minute

[tramper]

brit pete:
NOT every firm teaches their drivers any thing at all they just chuck the keys over and say drive, NO this exam is a way of getting better employers who
are qualified as required by law . What about the ISO 9002 NORM
TO get good contracts nearly all BLUE CHIP firms in operation wish their transport & haulage firms to have this certificate with the addition that the drivers being so qualified as laid down by the EU this will help with getting work , i do belive.

I don’t get to do a lot of “Blue Chip” work and guys who want “general Haulage” done don’t care if I put a monkey in the driving seat, as long as thier gear gets delivered. It would appear that there is a massive difference between my world and yours.

brit pete:
This exam is meant for the new driver and allows also that the older driver to be tested.

The "older driver has alreay been tested.

brit pete:
In the UK we do not really have such a scheme and therefore it is having to startup, i have seen advertisements for potential instructors on the web,this is where the EUROPEAN COUNTRIES who have a teaching system are in front.

So, just because the Europeans do it, we again are having to follow.

brit pete:
We need to have personal sent abroad to check how the european neighbours do it, in say Holland,or Germany.

WHY! It makes no difference to me in the UK how someone from Germany does business.

brit pete:
TRAMPER why not take a good look at what advantages this will bring for you in the long run, and as of yet no one knows how the courses will be run or financed, if the employer has to pay this must be able to offset it on the yearly -tax return, surely.

All this will do is make another buck for the Training industry and give brownie points to which ever government is foolhardy enough to impliment it. I employ people who can do the job. To do the job they need certain qualifications, if those qualifications change, then so be it, but I shall not be paying for it.

[mrpj]

north surrey haulage:
The bad drivers will still be bad drivers (afterall they have already been trained to a professional standard when they passed their C/C+E test.

This was exactly the point I was trying to make initially. They may only be trained to reach test standard as Denis points out but if they can’t maintain that standard how is basically re-testing them every five years going to make any difference.

[scanny77]

i still reckon its a get out clause. we are easily monitored so making us go through all the extra rubbish is split between money making and political. there is little to no practical advantage to the scheme. the government MAY make money, i dont know but one thing that it will do is show the rest of europe that the government is doing something about road safety when in actual fact, it isnt. creating additional training for non vocational drivers would be more practical but too difficult and basically, a pain in the arse. yet again, we are the get out clause

[the_biker]

As a 46 year old part time driver this causes me a problem and the costs of:

Medical every 5 years at £100.

Digital tacho card at £38 initial fee + £19 for renewal.

35 hrs training to keep my licence, fees to be paid by me.

I work for a couple of small firms - they wont pay for me as I am not a permenant employee. Is the money I can earn enough to cover the outlay

I already have a National CPC but I think this will push me out of the industry and the job I have wanted to do since I was 10.

Catch 22 for someone like me.

[muckles]

north surrey haulage:

brit pete:
WHY because modern transport evolves and changes which inturn means that the person,s useing the equipment
must change and learn again,

Forgive for being naieve but isnt that what on the job training does already.

If your company gets new equipment surely they will train you in it’s use before letting you work with it.
If you start a new job that uses equipment you’ve never used before you tell the company and they train you on it.

this is what you do if an…

Brit Pete:
…employer will wish to retain his good drivers,

Not my experience.
C+E training, drive a 30ft flat bed for 2 weeks and then one day wiith a 40ft loaded trailer and truck with a 6 speed box. Brief intro into tachgraphs, which was this is a tachograph, this is the card and it’s filled out like this.
Past test.
No explanation of the rules, no explanation of how to handle different loads. no explanation of maintainance.
Got some work with a local haulier during beet season.
Training was, take truck x, check oil, (nobody told me where the check it or where to find the oil if it was low) be at Cantley at 5:30am, find one of my driver coming out he will tell you how to use a tipper.

[Lasurazes]

No explanation of the rules, no explanation of how to handle different loads. no explanation of maintainance.
Got some work with a local haulier during beet season.

i deliver beer why would i want to do a test on tipper driving containerdriving ropeing and sheeting. none of it has any relevance to the job im doing. how long did it take you to pick up the wtd.

its not rocket science but i dont need 35 hours to go over the same old [zb] again.

jon

[ladytrucker679]

north surrey haulage:

Ladytrucker679:
I do consider myself a professional and to be certified as such will “sort the wheat from the chaff.” as already has been quoted.

The point I’m making is you have already been certified as a professional driver by passing your C/C+E test & if every driver must have t is new cpc how does that seperate the wheat from the chaff as they will both have the same certificate ?

Additional qualifications will put off [zb]wits from taking driving in the first place. One thing that this thread is showing is how additional training will affect the different aspects of the industry.

[tortoise]

If this CPC thing becomes part of the driving test and takes 6 hours, won’t that cut the number of tests per day. My test centre has 2 examiners = 2 tests a day. Isn’t there a driver shortage!!

[dennisw1]

Makes me wonder why so many people are worried about taking a test, which they all tell us they would fly though?!

Maybe what they’re worried about is not being as good as they think they are?

Medical every 5 years at £100

You need to shop around, I paid £33 for mine.

They may only be trained to reach test standard as Denis points out but if they can’t maintain that standard how is basically re-testing them every five years going to make any difference.

It will give them a kick up the backside every 5 years wont it. I mean if after 5 years they can’t meet the grade, they’ll be out.

So, just because the Europeans do it, we again are having to follow

Well if we dont european (including those from eastern europe) will be more highly trained that those from the UK.

We all want to be treated as proffesionals, yet we dont have to spend very much or take very much time to train for our job at the mo. I mean look at other proffesions, they take years to become qualified to do the job, you can become a qualified HGV driver in a couple of weeks for £2’000. A teacher for example takes 4 years to train and costs them about £20’000. Other proffesions also have regular reviews and refresher training. If you want to be considered proffesional in the same vane as other proffesions then you need put the same amount of effort in.

[ladytrucker679]

dennisw1:
We all want to be treated as proffesionals, yet we dont have to spend very much or take very much time to train for our job at the mo. I mean look at other proffesions, they take years to become qualified to do the job, you can become a qualified HGV driver in a couple of weeks for £2’000. A teacher for example takes 4 years to train and costs them about £20’000. Other proffesions also have regular reviews and refresher training. If you want to be considered proffesional in the same vane as other proffesions then you need put the same amount of effort in.

Hear Hear! Well said that man I couldn’t agree more.

[Lasurazes]

so some bloke from a traing school is going to come out with me proberbly never pulled beer before and tell me how to do my job correctly. most trainig schools have been pulling fresh air for god knows how many years

whos training them

jon

[Lucy]

We all want to be treated as proffesionals, yet we dont have to spend very much or take very much time to train for our job at the mo. I mean look at other proffesions, they take years to become qualified to do the job, you can become a qualified HGV driver in a couple of weeks for £2’000. A teacher for example takes 4 years to train and costs them about £20’000. Other proffesions also have regular reviews and refresher training. If you want to be considered proffesional in the same vane as other proffesions then you need put the same amount of effort in.

Bloody well said!!!

[Lasurazes]

tin hat time

We all want to be treated as proffesionals, yet we dont have to spend very much or take very much time to train for our job at the mo. I mean look at other proffesions, they take years to become qualified to do the job, you can become a qualified HGV driver in a couple of weeks for £2’000. A teacher for example takes 4 years to train and costs them about £20’000. Other proffesions also have regular reviews and refresher training. If you want to be considered proffesional in the same vane as other proffesions then you need put the same amount of effort in.

yer but people like doctors and teachers are a diffrent kettle of fish, one saves lives the other teachers our children for bigger and better things you cant learn open heart surgery with £2000 and a weeks training

. i go from a to b with c in the back its not rocket science

jon

[dennisw1]

out with me proberbly never pulled beer before

Why would he have needed to have worked behind a bar? You only deliver the stuff surely? Why do you need to know how to pull a pint?

Seriously though, why would you think that you’d be trained by someone who’s never been a driver? I mean most driving examiners have been drivers, mine for example had worked as a bus driver and a Fireman (he drove the engine obviously).

Sounds like all this snobishness or i’ve been doing it longer than you crap. Worked with plenty of people in a few jobs where “they’d been doing it longer than me” but didnt actually do it very well. And others who whilst very experienced were just as happy to learn as well as share their own experience. I was sharing my knowledge with a class 1 driver of 30 years last week on how to work the Actros Teligent gearbox. Not how it should be, we should be trained properly in these things, not work it all out between ourselves. Which is just what this CPC is aimed at doing.

[Lucy]

I agree 100% Jonboy…but in that case Truck Drivers aren’t “professional”, and never will be. The point being that we can’t have it both ways.

[muckles]

jonboy:
so some bloke from a traing school is going to come out with me proberbly never pulled beer before and tell me how to do my job correctly. most trainig schools have been pulling fresh air for god knows how many years

whos training them

jon

The training doesn’t have to be done by a training organisations, it could be done by your company if they get themselves approved.

The training can be taylored to the drivers and employers needs, as long as it’s in the sylabus. So your training could be made relevent to your job.

Many other professions have retraining and refresher courses, and there is no such thing as a perfect driver, we all can learn something new or refresh our memories on things we last thought about when we did our test.

As for Driver Shortage, surely that a good thing for a Driver.

[muckles]

jonboy:
tin hat time

yer but people like doctors and teachers are a diffrent kettle of fish, one saves lives the other teachers our children for bigger and better things you cant learn open heart surgery with £2000 and a weeks training

. i go from a to b with c in the back its not rocket science

jon

but In a 44 tonne artic, that if not driven properly can cause carnage.

[dennisw1]

a 1t car can do carnage if not driven properly, so a 44t truck…