Right - You Moanning Lot

UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUMS THE UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUM (INTERACTIVE)
61

This same legislation is coming in Finland also and I have quite same concerns over this matter as many of you have. I think real problem in this refresher course is that there are too many different “professions” under profession which is called as a truck driver. Driver doing multidrop work maybe isn’t interested very much about how to use tipper properly. Little like doctors and nurses would have shared refresher course, they do basically quite same job but there are as much difference then is between tipper driver and driver doing multidrop.

Denis F:

north surrey haulage:
I dis-agree.

The bad drivers will still be bad drivers (afterall they have already been trained to a professional standard when they passed their C/C+E test.

some have only been trained to pass the test :open_mouth:

Just like me when I was taught to reverse a-frame trailer in army. I was told when to turn wheel this and that much for trailer to go where it needs to go for me to pass a test. It took quite much of time from me to realise why it really behaved like it did. Good thing was that we were taught mechanical side of trucks quite well (like how to adjust air operated drum brakes etc).

62

brit pete:
What about the ISO 9002 NORM
TO get good contracts nearly all BLUE CHIP firms in operation wish their transport & haulage firms to have this certificate with the addition that the drivers being so qualified as laid down by the EU this will help with getting work , i do belive,

Good question.

I’ve worked for (employed by) “blue chip” companies,multinationals,small fleets both with & without ISO 9002 accreditation.

To be honest I couldn’t tell the difference unless I looked at the letterheads.

Also I have worked (subby) for companies with ISO 9002 & I’m not accredited!

Brit Pete:
NSH::: this EXAM all though you have seen or heard that it is called CPC
it has nothing at all to do with the CERTIFICATE OF COMPETENCE (?)
that you or any one has to take in order to have a transport company,

Yeah I know ! :open_mouth: :unamused: :unamused: :laughing:

Brit Pete:
This is just like say a "“GCE” OR ““O”” level exam which proves that the person who has passed such test is acreddited with being fully qualified
in those subjects of the drivering job which they carry out,

Really I thought it was a generased course covering all aspects of driving for a living.

This means the course will be tailored to your specific sector of the industry that the drive works in.

Not much use if he/she changes jobs then :smiley::

63

I think maybe I’m not putting my point across well.

I’m not against training persay indeed I’ve done Hiab & ADR but these are stand alone qualifications. ie they courses specific to their sector of the market.

If I got a contract whereby I needed these qualifications I have no problem doing the course

The problem I have with this legislation is that it seems to be training for training’s sake.

Everybody will have the same certificate at the end of it so nobody will be able to tell if one drive is any better than the next just by looking at their cert.

As has already been pointed out some drivers do enough to pass their test but it dosn’t mean they are good drivers so if these same drivers do enough to get the cert how do you tell the “wheat from the Chaff”

If a drive continually speeds or breaks the tacho regs he “already knows” he’s breaking the law - he dosn’t need refresher training to remind him!

If this training had some sort of graduated qualification like

THIS IS TO CERTIFY THAT JOE BLOGGS OF ACACIA AVENUE CLOUD CUCKOO LAND HAS REACH THE PROFESSIONAL STANDARD OF (BASIC/MEDIUM/ADVANCED ) OR ( grade 1,2,3,4,…)

Then I might be able to see a point in it.If I was to advertise for a driver I could look at his cert and if there was more than one driver to choose from then I’d obviously go for the one with the higher qualification

It also puts the big firms at an advantage as they can train their own staff in house where small firms are going to have buy in the training.

Has anybody else noticed that everytime the government brings in new legislation it always costs us more money to stay legal

If I take week off to do this training it will cost me 1800-2000 + the cost of the course and does anybody realistically think they are going to learn anything that is relevant to their actual specific job…it’s just going to be a course thats going to tell you how to hook up safely,how to strap a load(I doubt whether they’ll cover ropeing & sheeting) etc etc in other words just a general course that will cover driving for a living as opposed to a course that qualifies you to do somthing specific.

If I dont go on this course does it make me a worse driver or am I still of the same capability I am now.

When I get my certificate what exactly does it qualify me to do that I cant already do wit out the Bit of paper?

Other than prove I am capable of sitting on my arse in a classroom for a week

64

It also puts the big firms at an advantage as they can train their own staff in house where small firms are going to have buy in the training.

the thing with in house training is its just a jolly for the assesor hes going to pass you no matter what , theres no point in it if its going to be done by one of the boys you work with.

i did a fuel economy thing with wincanton , he slept all the way to norwich, if its to be done properly it needs to be done by acredited training school.

jon

65

As has already been pointed out some drivers do enough to pass their test but it dosn’t mean they are good drivers so if these same drivers do enough to get the cert how do you tell the "wheat from the Chaff

as has been said it can be spread across the 5 years, so drivers will have to keep to the standard to keep passing it. Hopefully it will be difficult enough that the real numptys wont pass it. They certainly wont be able to sustain the level of competance to pass the thing all the time. It’s like when someone’s pretending to be something they’re not, they can’t keep up the pretence all the time, sooner or later they’ll slip up.

The way it will separate the wheat from the chaff is that the chaff wont pass it, so wont have one. :wink:

66

dennisw1:
as has been said it can be spread across the 5 years, so drivers will have to keep to the standard to keep passing it. Hopefully it will be difficult enough that the real numptys wont pass it. They certainly wont be able to sustain the level of competance to pass the thing all the time. It’s like when someone’s pretending to be something they’re not, they can’t keep up the pretence all the time, sooner or later they’ll slip up.

The way it will separate the wheat from the chaff is that the chaff wont pass it, so wont have one. :wink:

I dont think it works by repeatedly taking the test.
If you spread it over 5 years it just means you have done the required hours of training to renew the cert at the end of each 5 year period.

In other words it’s the same as your hiab/adr in that the ce t lasts for 5 years then has to be renewed.

So the chaff only have to do 1 seven hour day in a classroom a year each year for 5 years to qualify.

I’m sure even the most incompetant chaff could manage that :wink:

67

Training in general is a good idea…but this is a clucking silly idea.

It’s mainly the retesting part I object to.

68

dennisw1:
If you want to be considered proffesional in the same vane as other proffesions then you need put the same amount of effort in.

I have no desire to be treated as a “Profesional” I own/operate/drive lorries, I’m not one of the Profesional classes, i.e Doctor/Teacher. I DRIVE LORRIES!

69

Whatever your views, the consultation period ends 8th of Feb 2006, and it’s easy to send your opinions.

This Url contains all parts of the document, including a word template (annex C) for your response,
http://www.dsa.gov.uk/Consultation.asp?id=SX987A-A7826D73&cat=328

then email it to

cpc.consultation@dsa.gsi.gov.uk
or
elaine.hutchinson@doeni…gov.uk
If you live in Northern Ireland
All this is in the Consultation 1 PDF
Chapter 3 Section 3.4

70

Tramper:

dennisw1:
If you want to be considered proffesional in the same vane as other proffesions then you need put the same amount of effort in.

I have no desire to be treated as a “Profesional” I own/operate/drive lorries, I’m not one of the Profesional classes, i.e Doctor/Teacher. I DRIVE LORRIES!

Fair point, it’s not really an academic type of profession, but what about plumbers, electricians, gas fitters they have to under go training courses and retake training to stay up with current legislation.

71

muckles:
Whatever your views, the consultation period ends 8th of Feb 2006, and it’s easy to send your opinions.

This Url contains all parts of the document, including a word template (annex C) for your response,
http://www.dsa.gov.uk/Consultation.asp?id=SX987A-A7826D73&cat=328

then email it to

cpc.consultation@dsa.gsi.gov.uk
or
elaine.hutchinson@doeni…gov.uk
If you live in Northern Ireland
All this is in the Consultation 1 PDF
Chapter 3 Section 3.4

will it make a difference though? i took part in the consultation survey thing for the digital tachos and that was a waste of time. the only thing i got out of it was having the results sent to me by post :unamused:

72

scanny77:
will it make a difference though? i took part in the consultation survey thing for the digital tachos and that was a waste of time. the only thing i got out of it was having the results sent to me by post :unamused:

It depends how much you think you’re are going to change things. You won’t stop the training directive coming in, but you can give you opinion on what of the options you think would be best.