Wheel Nut:
MrWrong:
can i ask you how do you know are the answers
A parapet is a low wall
ROG:
Different senario Del - not this one
ok look at your post
Drive 1 hour
Break 1 hour
this break is this
delboytwo:
A driver ‘wipes the slate clean’ if he takes a 45-minute break (or qualifying breaks totalling 45 minutes) before or at the end of a 4.5-hour driving period. This means that the next 4.5-hour period begins with the completion of that qualifying break, and in assessing break requirements for the new 4.5-hour period, no reference is to be made to driving time accumulated before this point.
so you start driving
Drive 3.5 hours
this bit is in blue
this break he is a new driving break and 15 mins
Break 30 mins
Drive 4.5 hours - now not allowed !!
you can only drive for another 1 hour and the new would have to take a break of 30 mins
Coffeeholic:
ROG:
Different senario Del - not this oneExactly this scenario.
I think the last one was where the question was asked if the driver wanted to start a new 4.5 period was ok because the driving periods before had all the necessary breaks
I think it went something like this -
Drive 1 hour
Break 15 mins
Drive 2 hours
Break 30 mins
And then at that point the question was asked if ok to drive 4.5 and the answer was yes
As I said - the reverse of this one
Rog have a look at you post as the driver in there had a qualifying breaks totalling 45 minutes or more
ROG:
Are the regs saying that once any period of driving of 4.5 hrs or under is done and the break requirement for a 4.5 hr driving period has been fulfiiled that the driving time MUST be reset for a new 4.5 hours
If that is the case then that becomes unnecessarily inflexible for the driver and seems stupid in the case of -
Drive 1 hour
Break 1 hour YES
Drive 3.5 hours
Break 30 mins
Drive 4.5 hours - now not allowed !!
ROG:
Coffeeholic:
ROG:
Different senario Del - not this oneExactly this scenario.
I think the last one was where the question was asked if the driver wanted to start a new 4.5 period was ok because the driving periods before had all the necessary breaks
You mean just like your scenario where the first driving period has all the necessary breaks?
ROG:
I think it went something like this -
Drive 1 hour
Break 15 mins
Drive 2 hours
Break 30 mins
4.5 hour driving counter reset
ROG:
And then at that point the question was asked if ok to drive 4.5 and the answer was yes
Drive 1 hour
Break 1 hour
4.5 hour driving counter reset
Question. Is it OK to drive 4.5 hours and the answer is yes.
Coffeeholic:
But more break interrupting the longer driving session than your scenario, which for a man as concerned about safety as you are would surely be the main concern? Are you not always banging on that safety should be the primary factor?
Yes, but taking away a safe & sensible OPTION seems daft
Coffeeholic:
Drive 1 hour
Break 1 hour
4.5 hour driving counter reset
Question. Is it OK to drive 4.5 hours and the answer is yes.
The point is that in the other senario the OPTION is not allowed to reset at a later point providing the correct amount of break has been taken for the TOTAL amount of driving done.
ROG:
Drive 1 hour
Break 1 hour
Drive 3.5 hours
Break 30 mins
Drive 4.5 hours - now not allowed !!
in this example of yours the driver as had a total drive of 4.5 hours and had 1.30 hours rest
but in fact if the driver followed the the wipe the slate clean bit he would have 2 hours break cos the driver would have to take another 30 break and then would be able to do anther 4.5 hours drive if the driver so wishes and would have to take another 45 mins rest if he was still at work working before he finishes the shift
I’m not saying that taking more breaks is wrong or even undesirable Del but that the CHOICE of OPTIONS under the amount of driving done to breaks taken is being denied to the driver.
The regs lay down specific amounts of break which must be taken when certain periods of driving are done but then take away that minimum OPTION if longer breaks are taken - does that make sense to you 
I could understand it if shorter breaks were taken 
ROG:
The regs lay down specific amounts of break which must be taken when certain periods of driving are done
Exactly, 45 minutes for each period of 4.5 hours driving, at which point a new 4.5 hours is available, and your scenario doesn’t meet that. End of.
Coffeeholic:
ROG:
The regs lay down specific amounts of break which must be taken when certain periods of driving are doneExactly, 45 minutes for each period of 4.5 hours driving, at which point a new 4.5 hours is available, and your scenario doesn’t meet that. End of.
so if a driver does 4.5 hours of accumulated driving and at the end of that, has taken at least 45 mins of break with the last period being at least 30 mins then they should be able to start a new period of 4.5 driving but in the senario given this is not the case.
ROG:
I’m not saying that taking more breaks is wrong or even undesirable Del but that the CHOICE of OPTIONS under the amount of driving done to breaks taken is being denied to the driver.The regs lay down specific amounts of break which must be taken when certain periods of driving are done but then take away that minimum OPTION if longer breaks are taken - does that make sense to you
I could understand it if shorter breaks were taken
Rog you can take a break of 1 hour after a drive of only 1 min but once you start driving again you have a fresh 4.5 hour drive
but if you come back in 44 mins for the break you would be able to driver for another 4 hours and 29 min and take a break of 30 mins cos you have not had a qualifying break in that drive period, only 15 min of the 44 mins would of been allowed
ROG:
so if a driver does 4.5 hours of accumulated driving and at the end of that, has taken at least 45 mins of break with the last period being at least 30 mins then they should be able to start a new period of 4.5 driving but in the senario given this is not the case.
It’s exactly the case. He drove for one hour, had at least 45 minutes of break and had 4.5 hours available. He then drove for 3.5 hours of the available 4.5 and took 30 minutes break, 15 minutes less than the required 45 minutes, so didn’t have 4.5 hours available. Simples.
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Second attempt at pointing out where you are going wrong
Remember you can drive for a MAXIMUM of 4.5 hours before a break, or breaks totalling, at least 45 minutes is required. That means that each period of driving between, or before, those 45 minutes can be less than 4.5 hours and the timer will still be reset.
The first hour of driving in this scenario is done and dusted by taking the 1 hour break. It no longer has any bearing on the 4.5 hour calculation and is not connected to the second driving period of 3.5 hours in anyway. It only counts toward the daily, weekly and fortnightly totals now.
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delboytwo:
ROG:
I’m not saying that taking more breaks is wrong or even undesirable Del but that the CHOICE of OPTIONS under the amount of driving done to breaks taken is being denied to the driver.The regs lay down specific amounts of break which must be taken when certain periods of driving are done but then take away that minimum OPTION if longer breaks are taken - does that make sense to you
I could understand it if shorter breaks were takenRog you can take a break of 1 hour after a drive of only 1 min but once you start driving again you have a fresh 4.5 hour drive
but if you come back in 44 mins for the break you would be able to driver for another 4 hours and 29 min and take a break of 30 mins cos you have not had a qualifying break in that drive period, only 15 min of the 44 mins would of been allowed
Who the [zb] are you and what have you done with the real delboytwo? 
Coffeeholic:
Who the [zb] are you and what have you done with the real delboytwo?
i am a guy in front of my computer sitting on a straw donkey wearing garish Bermuda shorts 
delboytwo:
Coffeeholic:
Who the [zb] are you and what have you done with the real delboytwo?i am a guy in front of my computer sitting on a straw donkey wearing garish Bermuda shorts
That’s an image that once seen could never be unseen!
Coffeeholic:
delboytwo:
Coffeeholic:
Who the [zb] are you and what have you done with the real delboytwo?i am a guy in front of my computer sitting on a straw donkey wearing garish Bermuda shorts
That’s an image that once seen could never be unseen!
just had a thought what about the time of the extension was in a rocket flying in orbit around the world with an astronaut wearing orange underpants he would be able to take two trips in the day would that count as two tens
delboytwo:
Coffeeholic:
delboytwo:
Coffeeholic:
Who the [zb] are you and what have you done with the real delboytwo?i am a guy in front of my computer sitting on a straw donkey wearing garish Bermuda shorts
That’s an image that once seen could never be unseen!
just had a thought what about the time of the extension was in a rocket flying in orbit around the world with an astronaut wearing orange underpants he would be able to take two trips in the day would that count as two tens
Dunno. Ask ROG, outer space is more his speciality because some of the crap he has been coming out with today has been out of this [zb]ing world!!!
I know what’s up with Rog he being swapped with a member called delboytwo and that why he getting it wrong
Coffeeholic:
The first hour of driving in this scenario is done and dusted by taking the 1 hour break. It no longer has any bearing on the 4.5 hour calculation and is not connected to the second driving period of 3.5 hours in anyway. It only counts toward the daily, weekly and fortnightly totals now.===========================================================
And it is this 1 hour and the rules of the regs regarding this that goes against the accumulated driving 4.5 hours regs - why should this HAVE to be the case - Why can’t the driver OPT to have this 1 hour included into the first 4.5 hours of accumulated driving time if they wish to
Yes, I know what the rules say, but it does go against having a reasonable option that could easily be legal.