ROG:
but the driver has already legally complied with the first 4.5 hours of driving when he did the 1 hour break (after 1 hour of driving) followed by the 30 min break (after 3.5 hours of driving) so why is the digitacho not programmmed to recognise this
Because it would be wrong if it recognised that ROG. It does a lot of things incorrectly so lets not add in another one.
ROG:
but the driver has already legally complied with the first 4.5 hours of driving when he did the 1 hour break (after 1 hour of driving)
He has completed more than 45 minutes of break so at that point he begins a new period of 4.5 hours, That first hour is no longer used in the 4.5 hour calculations.
ROG:
followed by the 30 min break (after 3.5 hours of driving)
Not followed by. Those 30 minutes are not connected to the first 1 hour break or the first hour of driving. Those 30 minutes are for the new 4.5 hour period which began after the first break. If he takes 30 minutes now he can only drive for 1 hour before another 30 minute break is required. If the digi tacho reset at this point and the driver does 4.5 hours he will have done 8 hours driving with only a 30-minute break.
I admit to getting a little confused over the regs here - I thought that the regs stated that the breaks to reset the 4.5 hours could be split with the first being as little as 15 mins (1 hour in this case) and the second being at least 30 mins.
The driver has complied with this so therefore LEGALLY can do another 4.5 hours without taking any break - my question is why does the software in the digitacho not recognise this ?
Coffeeholic:
Well if he needs it reset because he wishes to drive 4.5 hours, and to stay legal, he would have to take 45 minutes instead of 30, thirty minutes is not enough to reset the timer at that point. Otherwise he will have to take another 30 minutes break after driving a further 1 hour, at which point the timer will reset.
but the driver has already legally complied with the first 4.5 hours of driving when he did the 1 hour break (after 1 hour of driving) followed by the 30 min break (after 3.5 hours of driving) so why is the digitacho not programmmed to recognise this
ROG it only resets the drive time when 45 min of rest as being recorded just cos he had an hour rest the 15 mins would not be counted he as started a new driving period of 3.5 hours took a break of 30 mins he would still have to take an other break of 30 mins before 4.5 hours total driving, as you have said in many post once a break of 45 mins as being taken it wipes the slate clean and you then start a new 4.5 hour driving period
Rog you could in fact drive for 2 mins take a 45 min break have a new 4.5 hours drive drive 4 hours take a 45 min break drive for 4.5 hours and take another break of 45 mins and the drive for 28 mins
I admit to getting a little confused over the regs here - I thought that the regs stated that the breaks to reset the 4.5 hours could be split with the first being as little as 15 mins (1 hour in this case) and the second being at least 30 mins.
Once again you show you actually have very little understanding of the regulations, maybe if you actually worked under them now and again you might have a clue. You are just like a TM who doesn’t work under the regulations, has read them but hasn’t understood very much of them. Yes it can be split but once you have taken 45 minutes. or more, it is no lionger part of a split break and counts as a full break and the timer is reset.
ROG:
The driver has complied with this so therefore LEGALLY can do another 4.5 hours without taking any break[/question]
No he can’t, he began a new 4.5 hour period after the 1 hour break and if he does 4.5 hours driving after the 30 minutes he will commit an offence.
ROG:
my question is why does the software in the digitacho not recognise this ?
Because then it would be as daft as you. The digi tacho is correct here. How could it possibly be programmed to take account of whether a driver was counting a break of at least 45 minutes as a full break or part of a split break?
i never use poa just break. i just dont understand the term period of avalibilty, that means to me im on the bunk and asleep so therefore im on a break.
after you have had a break of 45 min in total that break would be counted as a full break in the eyes on the software when you start driving again you start a new 4.5 driving period and the tacho knows that the 3.5 hours drive is a fresh drive and the for the 30 mins is not enough break he would still have to take a 30 min rest in that 4.5 hour drive
ROG:
OK Del, I’ll ask the question another way - Has the driver complied with all the breaks required for the first 4.5 hours of driving
Yes, although the first 4.5 hour period was only 1 hour long. It’s the second 4.5 hour period he hasn’t fulfilled the rest requirements for. He has so far only had 30 minutes break for the second 4.5 hour period.
Remember you can drive for a MAXIMUM of 4.5 hours before a break, or breaks totalling, at least 45 minutes is required. That means that each period of driving between, or before, those 45 minutes can be less than 4.5 hours and the timer will still be reset.
Every time you complete at least 45 minutes of break, either in one bloc or as at least 15 minutes and at least 30 minutes, you have a new 4.5 hour period available, subject to having at least that left for the day. What went on before those 45 minutes no longer counts toward the 4.5 hour calculation.
ROG:
OK Del, I’ll ask the question another way - Has the driver complied with all the breaks required for the first 4.5 hours of driving
simple answer there mate NO
And you were doing so well with your last post you nearly got the King of the Forum award for today.
delboytwo:
after you have had a break of 45 min in total that break would be counted as a full break in the eyes on the software*** when you start driving again you start a new 4.5 driving period and the tacho knows that the 3.5 hours drive is a fresh drive and the for the 30 mins is not enough break he would still have to take a 30 min rest in that 4.5 hour drive
And you’re back. That seals the award for today.
ROG gets a different award, sadly the auto censor wouldn’t allow me to type it.
*** Not just the software, more importantly the regulations as well.
Are the regs saying that once any period of driving of 4.5 hrs or under is done and the break requirement for a 4.5 hr driving period has been fulfiiled that the driving time MUST be reset for a new 4.5 hours
If that is the case then that becomes unnecessarily inflexible for the driver and seems stupid in the case of -
Drive 1 hour
Break 1 hour
Drive 3.5 hours
Break 30 mins
Drive 4.5 hours - now not allowed !!
BUT
Drive 1 hour
Break 15 mins
Drive 3.5 hours
Break 30 mins
Drive 4.5 hours - is now allowed although less amount of break is taken
ROG:
Are the regs saying that once any period of driving of 4.5 hrs or under is done and the break requirement for a 4.5 hr driving period has been fulfiiled that the driving time MUST be reset for a new 4.5 hours
If that is the case then that becomes unnecessarily inflexible for the driver and seems stupid in the case of -
Drive 1 hour
Break 1 hour
Drive 3.5 hours
Break 30 mins
Drive 4.5 hours - now not allowed !!
BUT
Drive 1 hour
Break 15 mins
Drive 3.5 hours
Break 30 mins
Drive 4.5 hours - is now allowed although less amount of break is taken
Something logically wrong here…
Rog a few month back somewhere in this forum you ask about this and quoted from the gv262 book page 13
A driver ‘wipes the slate clean’ if he takes a 45-minute break (or qualifying breaks totalling 45 minutes) before or at the end of a 4.5-hour driving period. This means that the next 4.5-hour period begins with the completion of that qualifying break, and in assessing break requirements for the new 4.5-hour period, no reference is to be made to driving time accumulated before this point.
ROG:
Are the regs saying that once any period of driving of 4.5 hrs or under is done and the break requirement for a 4.5 hr driving period has been fulfiiled that the driving time MUST be reset for a new 4.5 hours
If that is the case then that becomes unnecessarily inflexible for the driver and seems stupid in the case of -
Drive 1 hour
Break 1 hour
Drive 3.5 hours
Break 30 mins
Drive 4.5 hours - now not allowed !!
Not really, any other way would be unworkable and open to abuse. Most drivers with an ounce of common sense and having an idea of what their day holds would likely not take 1 hour after the 1 hour of driving, they would take 15 minutes then switch it to other work, or maybe even POA. Unless of course they want to get the maximum hours out of the day and more breaks = money.
ROG:
BUT
Drive 1 hour
Break 15 mins
Drive 3.5 hours
Break 30 mins
Drive 4.5 hours - is now allowed although less amount of break is taken
But more break interrupting the longer driving session than your scenario, which for a man as concerned about safety as you are would surely be the main concern? Are you not always banging on that safety should be the primary factor?
ROG:
Something logically wrong here…
I don’t think anyone has said the regulations are logical. That’s always going to be a problem with one size fits all regulations, while they are tailored too, and work for, the majority certain circumstances will seem daft.
