After about 44 minutes driving this morning i got to my first drop and they wernt open so I had a 15 min break outside the premises. I didnt want to take any more break than that as it was too early, so I put tacho on to poa as i found out the would be unloading me at a certain time. as it happens i was on poa for exactly half an hour and then i moved onto the loading bay to tip.
Pulled away from loading bay and carried on with the rest of my day then pulled in to take the half hour part of my break, only to find the tacho had recdorded the half hour poa as break and reset the driving time, forcing me to take a 45 instead of a 30. I was going to just drive home after the 30 as that was all i needed to complete my daily breakand I thought I was right, but I bowed down and took a 45 to keep the tacho happy.
Would i have got an infringement if I had driven off after the thirty (i would have ended up exceeded 4.5 hours continuous driving according the the tacho), after already having a 15 earlier in the day? POA wasnt part of my break so tacho shouldnt have taken it as a break!
You could have just taken the 30 and ignored the tacho nagging at you. You wouldn’t have committed an offence or got an infringement when the data was analysed.
The tacho wrongly counts POA as break and will reset the timer after 2 or 3 periods of break and or POA, of at least 15 minutes, adding up to at least 45 minutes. The fact it will count 3 periods toward break is also wrong. None of this makes any difference the data and as long as you are taking the correct breaks you will be legal regardless of what the display says.
masetheace:
forcing me to take a 45 instead of a 30
WHY - if you took the 30 it still should reset the 4.5 driving time
POA being recorded as break has been mentioned many times before - coffeeholic knows why this happens and can explain better than me - I’m sure there are posts on this sort of thing in the SAFETY. LAW & WTD forum.
masetheace:
forcing me to take a 45 instead of a 30
WHY - if you took the 30 it still should reset the 4.5 driving time
No it wouldn’t. The timer was reset after his 15 minute break and 30 minute POA. It would not reset again until another 45 minutes of break/POA so taking 30 when he took his second break would not reset it.
ady1:
thats why alot of drivers including me refuse to use p.o.a.
In his case it made sense to use the POA when he did. He obviously wanted an earlier finish and if he had taken 45 minutes so early he would have required another later in the day. Taking just 15 minutes early and 30 minutes later would have got him done 15 minutes earlier.
Mind you that all went to hell when he ended up taking 45 anyway.
When double manning time is all recorded as poa. this counts for a 45 break so why doesnt it count in this case? i thought it was only daily rest that couldnt be taken on poa■■?
–bob–:
When double manning time is all recorded as poa. this counts for a 45 break so why doesnt it count in this case?
That is because, for obvious reasons, the second card position doesn’t record break while the vehicle is moving. The easiest solution is not to use POA at all and just book it as break.
masetheace:
forcing me to take a 45 instead of a 30
ROG:
WHY - if you took the 30 it still should reset the 4.5 driving time
Coffeeholic:
No it wouldn’t. The timer was reset after his 15 minute break and 30 minute POA. It would not reset again until another 45 minutes of break/POA so taking 30 when he took his second break would not reset it.
masetheace:
the tacho had recdorded the half hour poa as break and reset the driving time
I do apologise - I was unaware that a digital tachograph had the same poor software as a timer in so far as it was not programmed to work out a simple mathematical situation.
I’ve learnt something new
ROG:
I do apologise - I was unaware that a digital tachograph had the same poor software as a timer in so far as it was not programmed to work out a simple mathematical situation.
Ot did the maths perfectly, it just adds the wrong things together. You knew that anyway as I’ve seen you talk before about the tacho counting POA as break.
ROG:
I do apologise - I was unaware that a digital tachograph had the same poor software as a timer in so far as it was not programmed to work out a simple mathematical situation.
Ot did the maths perfectly, it just adds the wrong things together. You knew that anyway as I’ve seen you talk before about the tacho counting POA as break.
I knew it did when double manning and that the driver timer seemed to have it’s own mind !!
What I didn’t realise that digital tachographs had not been programmed to cope with something as simple working out previous driving time in relation to the breaks needed to reset the driving clock - even if it meant resetting that clock more than once.
Drive 1 hour
break 1 hour - resets driving time
drive 3.5 hours
break 30 mins - resets driving time again
Obviously the software has not been programmed to look back further than the last driving time reset to see if there is another option to regard the first break as minimum 15 mins.
As this sort of calculation can be done on an excel speadsheet, I would have thought that the programmers could do this with a digital tachograph… oh well, I’m no teccy…
ROG:
What I didn’t realise that digital tachographs had not been programmed to cope with something as simple working out previous driving time in relation to the breaks needed to reset the driving clock - even if it meant resetting that clock more than once.
Drive 1 hour
break 1 hour - resets driving time
drive 3.5 hours
break 30 mins - resets driving time again
Obviously the software has not been programmed to look back further than the last driving time reset to see if there is another option to regard the first break as minimum 15 mins.
It quite rightly would not reset the driving timer after the 30 minute break in that case. Why would or should it?
masetheace:
After about 44 minutes driving this morning i got to my first drop and they wernt open so I had a 15 min break outside the premises. I didnt want to take any more break than that as it was too early, so I put tacho on to poa as i found out the would be unloading me at a certain time. as it happens i was on poa for exactly half an hour and then i moved onto the loading bay to tip.
Pulled away from loading bay and carried on with the rest of my day then pulled in to take the half hour part of my break, only to find the tacho had recdorded the half hour poa as break and reset the driving time, forcing me to take a 45 instead of a 30. I was going to just drive home after the 30 as that was all i needed to complete my daily breakand I thought I was right, but I bowed down and took a 45 to keep the tacho happy.
Would i have got an infringement if I had driven off after the thirty (i would have ended up exceeded 4.5 hours continuous driving according the the tacho), after already having a 15 earlier in the day? POA wasnt part of my break so tacho shouldnt have taken it as a break!
if you can take a printout the day and have a look at the bottom totals to see how much brake was record
i was told even thought poa counts it as a break in fact its not so if you have had 15 mins break and then 30 poa it will reset it self to say you had a 45 min break but you have not, lets say you drove for 1 hour took 15 mins break moved to the loading area put on poa for 30 mins the digital head up display will say you had a 45 min break but you have not you have only had 15 mins and would still have to take the 30 mins at 4.5 hours driving totals
but your your print out will tell you your totals and you can have a look at it any time of the day as long as you have enough paper
this happened to one of are drivers, this was the first time the company had one and this driver was the only one with a card it was 2006 July in a new daf he drove for 2.5 hours and stopped to do a delivery and he put it on poa as it was then a company policy to use poa at deliveries when he started after the delivery he drove for 1 hour to his next and the head unit said that he as only done 1 hours drive he took a break there of 15 min and the carried on for 3 hours thing nothing more, got back to the yard and there downloaded is card and it said he as only had a 15 min break taken
next day boss tell all that drivers then not to use poa and we would still be paid except the 45 mins in a day
he did not want to get done and done over and over again like Coffeeholic as said in many posts what’s the point of it it really severs no purpose
ROG:
What I didn’t realise that digital tachographs had not been programmed to cope with something as simple working out previous driving time in relation to the breaks needed to reset the driving clock - even if it meant resetting that clock more than once.
Drive 1 hour
break 1 hour - resets driving time
drive 3.5 hours
break 30 mins - resets driving time again
Obviously the software has not been programmed to look back further than the last driving time reset to see if there is another option to regard the first break as minimum 15 mins.
It quite rightly would not reset the driving timer after the 30 minute break in that case. Why would or should it?
The driver might wish to drive 4.5 hours after that 30 min break so would need it reset
ROG:
What I didn’t realise that digital tachographs had not been programmed to cope with something as simple working out previous driving time in relation to the breaks needed to reset the driving clock - even if it meant resetting that clock more than once.
Drive 1 hour
break 1 hour - resets driving time
drive 3.5 hours
break 30 mins - resets driving time again
Obviously the software has not been programmed to look back further than the last driving time reset to see if there is another option to regard the first break as minimum 15 mins.
It quite rightly would not reset the driving timer after the 30 minute break in that case. Why would or should it?
The driver might wish to drive 4.5 hours after that 30 min break so would need it reset
Well if he needs it reset because he wishes to drive 4.5 hours, and to stay legal, he would have to take 45 minutes instead of 30, thirty minutes is not enough to reset the timer at that point. Otherwise he will have to take another 30 minutes break after driving a further 1 hour, at which point the timer will reset.
Coffeeholic:
Well if he needs it reset because he wishes to drive 4.5 hours, and to stay legal, he would have to take 45 minutes instead of 30, thirty minutes is not enough to reset the timer at that point. Otherwise he will have to take another 30 minutes break after driving a further 1 hour, at which point the timer will reset.
but the driver has already legally complied with the first 4.5 hours of driving when he did the 1 hour break (after 1 hour of driving) followed by the 30 min break (after 3.5 hours of driving) so why is the digitacho not programmmed to recognise this
- if you took the 30 it still should reset the 4.5 driving time
