Coffeeholic:
The first hour of driving in this scenario is done and dusted by taking the 1 hour break. It no longer has any bearing on the 4.5 hour calculation and is not connected to the second driving period of 3.5 hours in anyway. It only counts toward the daily, weekly and fortnightly totals now.
And it is this 1 hour and the rules of the regs regarding this that goes against the accumulated driving 4.5 hours regs - why should this HAVE to be the case - Why can’t the driver OPT to have this 1 hour included into the first 4.5 hours of accumulated driving time if they wish to
Yes, I know what the rules say, but it does go against having a reasonable option that could easily be legal.
Rog if the driver want that one hour to count in the 4.5 hours driving he as a choice to do that by putting it on work or POA
Coffeeholic:
The first hour of driving in this scenario is done and dusted by taking the 1 hour break. It no longer has any bearing on the 4.5 hour calculation and is not connected to the second driving period of 3.5 hours in anyway. It only counts toward the daily, weekly and fortnightly totals now.
And it is this 1 hour and the rules of the regs regarding this that goes against the accumulated driving 4.5 hours regs - why should this HAVE to be the case -
FFS, It’s a MAXIMUM of 4.5 hours, that means it can be less when the 4.5 timer is reset.
Where does it go against the 4,5 hours rule?
The timer is reset after a break of at least 45 minutes, as per the requirements of the regulation.
The driver has to have another break, or breaks totalling 45 minutes before exceeding 4.5 hours after his first break, as per the regulation.
3.Thirty minutes is not enough to reset the timer, as per the regulation.
So what bit of all that goes against the part of the regulation which deals with driving time and breaks?
ROG:
Why can’t the driver OPT to have this 1 hour included into the first 4.5 hours of accumulated driving time if they wish to
They can, as I said in an earlier post just take 44 minutes, or less, break after the 1 hours drive.
ROG:
Yes, I know what the rules say, but it does go against having a reasonable option that could easily be legal.
The option is there as pointed out in this post and the previous one by Del.
Only legal in your mind because you cannot understand what the regulations mean when you read them, and not for the first time either.
I fail to comprehend how after you have answered this question many times correctly you are now getting it so wrong? You are now saying all the other times you addressed this question you were talking crap.
delboytwo:
Rog if the driver want that one hour to count in the 4.5 hours driving he as a choice to do that by putting it on work or POA
The point is - WHY should the driver have to when they are allowed to do 4.5 hours of accumulated driving
that the point allowed to do 4.5 hours of accumulated driving before a break of 45 min
i have done RDC work Rog and when you get there you put on break and if you there for 45 mins or more you know when you get in the truck you have a 4.5 hour drive without stopping till the 4.5 hours are up if you have 4.5 hours left you don’t have to drive for the 4.5 hour you could take an other break if you so wished
consider this
you have to do ten hours drive today to get back to the yard but you have a drop on the way home that 3 hours drive from base so you driver for 4.5 hours have your break of 45.mins then drive for 2.5 hours and arrive at the drop take a 45.min break give you that 3 hours to driver back to the yard
delboytwo:
Rog if the driver want that one hour to count in the 4.5 hours driving he as a choice to do that by putting it on work or POA
The point is - WHY should the driver have to when they are allowed to do 4.5 hours of accumulated driving
They are allowed to drive a maximum of 4.5 hours from the start of the shift or after a break, or breaks, of at least 45 minutes. They cannot choose what random bits of driving count toward a 4.5 hour period. While the regulations are very flexible there also has to be certain fixed things otherwise they would be unworkable.
They can however engineer it to a certain extent by careful use of the mode switch, something which most drivers who actually drive for a living under the EU regulations are well aware of and capable of doing.
In general though in the real world it usuallly always works out that if you dont take a 45 minute break in the middle of a 9 hours of driving shift and book them in other ways instead it’s going to cost you in making the day longer than it needs to be because you’re going to need more time for more breaks spread around that 9 hour + shift?.
I was going to ask this exact same question myself today until i did a quick search and saw this post. I’ll round thing off to make it easier.
Drove 3 hrs then 15 min break and then 35 mins POA while waiting to be tipped (tacho reset driving time). Drove for 1hr 25 and had 30 min break (45 mins break in 4hrs 25 of driving). Carried on driving for another 4hrs 15 during which time the tacho flashed up the usual 4hr 15 & 4hr 30 break limit. Phoned into the office and asked if it was ok to ignore the warning as i was sure that i was legal and they said yes, but take a printout for future reference.
Wasn’t 100% sure this was ok because driving time according to the tacho was well over 5hrs, but after reading this i see it is all ok and above board. Just disconcerting that you try and judge things correctly, but the electronics says otherwise. Asked a couple of the other, more experienced drivers about it and they said they’d never heard of this happening, so just nice to have it cleared up, thanks
I think it’s fair to say we have to know, or learn, which bits of the software we can “trust” and which bits we shouldn’t rely on.
Bear in mind, if you will, the machine is run by software. If I understand correctly, the rules have been re-written/changed/edited since the machine (and it’s software) were introduced. That would suggest the possibility of the two not fitting together absolutely.
Personally, I believe the fact that the second driver card slot can’t/won’t record a period of break (when in motion) is argument enough to at least open a debate on the machine being “fit for purpose”
As for “VOSA will accept . . . .blah” well, that just adds in my opinion, to the farce that these machines have rapidly become. People are liable to prosecution based on the information provided by these machines. There should be no scope for “Ah, yes. We know they don’t work, so we’ll call one bit of recorded information something completely different from that actually recorded”
