dessy:
Helen! The LAW as you describe is correct! BUT correct me if I’m wrong! Is POA exclusive to the UK or not?
POA is written into the “Directive 2002/15/EC” which all EU countries are supposed to abide by so it’s not exclusive to the UK.
Can’t understand why people get so flustered about POA, use it or don’t, it really is that simple 
Helen Stevens:
Nah, I prefer reading analogue tachos. The hours are easy enough to read with one of those turn around disc things we use in the office. And with an analogue tacho the info is all there in front of you, you can look at the speed the driver was going, see when he was crawling along on the motorway, and see when he pulled off the motorway to take a leak (sudden drop in speed from 85kph to zero, five minutes on other work - doesn’t mess with the tacho as he’s too busy running for the lavvy - then sudden acceleration back up to 85kph). Maybe it’s just our digi tacho software, but you can’t see speed in graphical form. Just blocks of blue (driving) red (other work) yellow (POA) and green (break). So if the driver spends an hour driving on the motorway, you expect him to have done about 50 miles, but you can’t tell if he’s actually only done five miles because he’s been crawling along in a jam (without actually stopping), since you don’t get speed info on the same page. If the digi tacho makes no sense at all to the day I think the driver should have done, I can look at speed separately. It’s given in one second intervals in numerical form. Like finding a needle in a haystack. A small mountain of data. It’s no wonder my computer is on a go slow since digi tachos came in (
You actually check up on the speed drivers are doing throughout the day 
Sorry Helen but I would recommend either one of two alternatives, either get drivers you trust to get the job done or find more useful work to occupy your time
tachograph:
Helen Stevens:
Nah, I prefer reading analogue tachos. The hours are easy enough to read with one of those turn around disc things we use in the office. And with an analogue tacho the info is all there in front of you, you can look at the speed the driver was going, see when he was crawling along on the motorway, and see when he pulled off the motorway to take a leak (sudden drop in speed from 85kph to zero, five minutes on other work - doesn’t mess with the tacho as he’s too busy running for the lavvy - then sudden acceleration back up to 85kph). Maybe it’s just our digi tacho software, but you can’t see speed in graphical form. Just blocks of blue (driving) red (other work) yellow (POA) and green (break). So if the driver spends an hour driving on the motorway, you expect him to have done about 50 miles, but you can’t tell if he’s actually only done five miles because he’s been crawling along in a jam (without actually stopping), since you don’t get speed info on the same page. If the digi tacho makes no sense at all to the day I think the driver should have done, I can look at speed separately. It’s given in one second intervals in numerical form. Like finding a needle in a haystack. A small mountain of data. It’s no wonder my computer is on a go slow since digi tachos came in (You actually check up on the speed drivers are doing throughout the day
Sorry Helen but I would recommend either one of two alternatives, either get drivers you trust to get the job done or find more useful work to occupy your time
This^
Darb:
How would VOSA view it, if they pulled you anf there was no POA booked at all ?
according to our driver trainer your for the HIGH JUMP,credit card at the ready
Control feakery! In Switchlogic tone! “God Dammit”
Helen! Are you checking the driver is “tossing off” his shift,or some other reason like lack of respect for your drivers!
LOL! You are all getting over excited now. 
Perhaps it has not occurred to you lot before that people whose job it is to read tachos can actually read more than you realise. Your tachos are being scrutinised in this way by your gaffer, by the people in your payroll department, every day. You just don’t know it. I am sorry if it offends you that I can read a tacho. It doesn’t offend me that you can reverse a truck. Afterall, it is your job, right?
We have a whole team of VERY trustworthy drivers. And I know this partly because I know the drivers, and also partly because I can read a tacho chart. With the agency lads we get in, it can be interesting, when I ask them why they haven’t booked that extra stop on the services as a break. 
If you’re not doing anything wrong, why should it worry you?
ady1:
Darb:
How would VOSA view it, if they pulled you anf there was no POA booked at all ?according to our driver trainer your for the HIGH JUMP,credit card at the ready
Somebody is going to say I’m being hypocritical now , but since on some days you may not be made to wait at all, and since you are only required to book POA when you know how long you are to wait, I can’t see how anybody can say you HAVE to book POA on every tacho. My point earlier was just to say that sometimes booking a BREAK when you don’t need one could cause you problems you hadn’t thought of before. I don’t see how anybody can say you HAVE to book POA, except in the (limited) circumstances I described before, where you will (strictly) make your tacho illegal by booking too much break at the wrong time. And I did say it was a totally mishmash rule, at the time, didn’t I? Commonsense tells you you’re not going to be less rested for having too much break. But I didn’t write the silly rules now, did I?
ady1:
Darb:
How would VOSA view it, if they pulled you anf there was no POA booked at all ?according to our driver trainer your for the HIGH JUMP,credit card at the ready
Your driver trainer is an arse. I trust this clarifies matters.
Thanks Coffee, it sure did!
Helen Stevens:
Your tachos are being scrutinised in this way by your gaffer, by the people in your payroll department, every day. You just don’t know it.
I know it, but I never book POA and I don’t work for a boss who questions every break on the tacho, some days 5 or 6 hours, as he knows I can do the job he has tasked me to do and trust me to do it.
This is a printout from my run last Monday.
Helen Stevens:
Commonsense tells you you’re not going to be less rested for having too much break. But I didn’t write the silly rules now, did I?
But in your scenario you aren’t having too much break, there’s no such thing as too much break. You are doing too much driving with insufficient break. Them’s the rules.
Helen Stevens:
I am sorry if it offends you that I can read a tacho. It doesn’t offend me that you can reverse a truck. Afterall, it is your job, right?
It doesn’t offend me that you can read a tachograph chart and please don’t underestimate the abilities of drivers 
I can read a chart and a printout and the tachograph display itself and I know that many probably most of the other drivers on this site can do the same
Nor does it surprise me that some companies indulge in such costly and irrelevant activities as checking on speeds of vehicles even though it does not tell you why the driver was travelling at that speed, I’ve worked at one or two of them
Coffeeholic:
ady1:
Darb:
How would VOSA view it, if they pulled you anf there was no POA booked at all ?according to our driver trainer your for the HIGH JUMP,credit card at the ready
Your driver trainer is an arse. I trust this clarifies matters.
To be fair that was established in this thread
Coffeeholic:
But in your scenario you aren’t having too much break, there’s no such thing as too much break.
But we are surely agreed that if he had booked just 15 minutes break (and the rest as POA) after the original 2 hour drive, then 30 minutes break after the next 2 hours, he’s good then for another 4 hours driving. And his day isn’t any longer than it needed to be. So he isn’t driving with insufficient break at all. (where’s the smilie with the bobbing out tongue?)
I told you I don’t read digi tachos so well, Coffee. And also you need to know what the driver was doing for the day, and have an understanding of the job. Probably most of the wages clerks don’t have that level of understanding, cos most of them won’t be drivers. I am sure if I was your wages girl, I’d know I could trust you. Or not!
tachograph:
Helen Stevens:
I am sorry if it offends you that I can read a tacho. It doesn’t offend me that you can reverse a truck. Afterall, it is your job, right?It doesn’t offend me that you can read a tachograph chart and please don’t underestimate the abilities of drivers
I can read a chart and a printout and the tachograph display itself and I know that many probably most of the other drivers on this site can do the same
Nor does it surprise me that some companies indulge in such costly and irrelevant activities as checking on speeds of vehicles even though it does not tell you why the driver was travelling at that speed, I’ve worked at one or two of them
Tachograph, I never said I analyse every minute of the speed, but if I have a tacho that doesn’t look right, then the speed can be a very useful tool to tell you how the day panned out and where the lad was. If he’s galloping along at 56 then crawling for half hour stop start, then galloping along again, it’s pretty easy to work out that he was held up on the motorway. So I can pay that lad his overtime happy in the knowledge that he earnt it, and wasn’t ■■■■■■■ about somewhere. I think it helps to create trust, myself. When otherwise you might wonder why a trip down the road took the lad three hours when it’s only a half hour drive. Then you might potentially have doubt about what the lad was playing at, whether he took the scenic route to put extra time on the tacho. At least this way you know and are happy you can trust your lads. And then on a day when you really can’t work out what went wrong, you can happily give him the benefit of the doubt, knowing that he’s not out to rack up undeserved overtime.
All we ask of our lads is that they do they job we pay them for, in a legal way, to the best of their ability, and are honest and trustworthy. Surely that’s not too much to ask is it? Our drivers are very happy with us, evidenced by the fact that all will stop and chat, most have been with us for years, and nobody ever seems to leave! We don’t have a high turnover of drivers at all. We look after them, and they look after our customers. And everybody is happy. If you think we’re one of these big brother workplaces, you’re wrong. But nevertheless, I can read a tacho.
It isn’t costly or irrelevant. It is very quick when you know what you’re doing, a 30 second comparison with the diary will tell me how a lad’s day went. And sometimes you can ask a customer to work a schedule around the other way for example, if you know there’s always a hold up in a certain place at a certain time due to shift changes, coffee breaks, peak driving time or what have you.
ady1:
Darb:
How would VOSA view it, if they pulled you anf there was no POA booked at all ?according to our driver trainer your for the HIGH JUMP,credit card at the ready
I suspect that POA is being confused with ‘other work’. It would indeed look a bit odd if there was none of that recorded on your tacho.
Seeing some other suggestions for what POA stands for reminded me that when looking at job adverts, I used to think that ‘neg’ for the pay, meant ‘negligible’ 
Although that is often a more accurate interpretation 
Helen Stevens:
I told you I don’t read digi tachos so well, Coffee. And also you need to know what the driver was doing for the day, and have an understanding of the job. Probably most of the wages clerks don’t have that level of understanding, cos most of them won’t be drivers. I am sure if I was your wages girl, I’d know I could trust you. Or not!
The woman who does our wages doesn’t look at the tacho, it’s all done from my time sheet. Number of hours between start and finish times - 45 minutes. Couldn’t be more simple. In fact from tomorrow it will be even easier for her as my new job means number of hours between start and finish times, which will be 9.5 hours unless there are traffic problems, - zero for breaks. I won’t get a proper break as such in that shift so no deduction.
tachograph:
Coffeeholic:
ady1:
Darb:
How would VOSA view it, if they pulled you anf there was no POA booked at all ?according to our driver trainer your for the HIGH JUMP,credit card at the ready
Your driver trainer is an arse. I trust this clarifies matters.
To be fair that was established in this thread
Yeah, I remember that but this is ady1 we are dealing with. 
If my company didn’t pay me for breaks I would have to leave cause I wouldn’t earn enough to live on.
I never use POA because there is no reason to. the only time I use other work is when i’m queueing. But thats container work.
I don’t understand the idea that if you have too much break early in the day it can make things awkward later. I can have three hours break in the morning drive for four and a half hours have fortyfive minutes break then drive some more, no problem it’s just the way the job goes sometimes.
Helen your company should fit trackers if they need that much info on what the drivers are doing and where.
Or maybe I’ve just missunderstood stuff again 
knight:
If my company didn’t pay me for breaks I would have to leave cause I wouldn’t earn enough to live on.
I never use POA because there is no reason to. the only time I use other work is when i’m queueing. But thats container work.
I don’t understand the idea that if you have too much break early in the day it can make things awkward later. I can have three hours break in the morning drive for four and a half hours have fortyfive minutes break then drive some more, no problem it’s just the way the job goes sometimes.
Helen your company should fit trackers if they need that much info on what the drivers are doing and where.
Or maybe I’ve just missunderstood stuff again
That suggests that your employer doesn’t pay a decent wage. I think if you compare what we pay our lads with what you are paid, you would quite possibly find our lads are better off in their pocket at the end of the week even though we don’t pay for breaks. But there again it might just be that you have a flash lifestyle and no trucker’s wage can ever match up to it?
I think people need to be sure to compare apples with apples before suggesting we are harsh taking our breaks off our drivers. But I can’t disclose what we pay our drivers on here, so I guess we will never know.
