It’s fairly simple, If you know by experience or have been told how long your wait is going to be, you can book it, whether your sat twiddling your thumbs at a dealer/waiting for a unit, trailer or run/waiting in monkey cage at a certain RDC, it doesn’t matter if it’s going to be 5 minutes or 5 hours.
As for the comment about booking breaks at the beginning of your shift, I can’t see anything wrong with that, if it’s right at the beginning it doesn’t count for diddly squat, other than allowing you to work for another 6 hours, if it’s after a minutes work, all it does is allow you to work for another 6 hours, if you’re 30 minutes into a shift including 15 minutes driving and have a 45, it means you can work for another 6 hours including driving for up to 4.5 hours, as for VOSA having a problem with it, well, that’s their problem.
Free to dispose of your time, relates to Daily/Weekly REST not BREAKS during your shift.
If your not paid for all breaks, then POA can be your friend especially if your hour hungry.
stevieboy308:
Personally I think you were being unnecessarily militant, but then you may have your reasons. as rog said it could of gone down as break, they might just remember when you want an early finish or they need to make someone redundant.
Ignore this you did exactly the right thing,well done if we all did it we might just get somewhere
Exactly, why should he bend over ffs , just to be sure not to upset them and they find a way to ■■■■ him off , he’s got the rules on his side for once, he has done right, it aint militant, it’s looking after his own interests and trying to ensure he doesn’t get shafted again.
he could of legally put it down as break, why is that bending over?
what happens if someone was sat there 5h15m, say it takes him 30 mins to find the wagon, couple up, checks etc, 15 minutes out of the gate - sorry lads i’m downing tools for a break
what about if someone is sat there for 5h59m, planner turns up with the keys, sorry fella i’m on a break in a minute
stevieboy308:
Personally I think you were being unnecessarily militant, but then you may have your reasons. as rog said it could of gone down as break, they might just remember when you want an early finish or they need to make someone redundant.
Ignore this you did exactly the right thing,well done if we all did it we might just get somewhere
Exactly, why should he bend over ffs , just to be sure not to upset them and they find a way to ■■■■ him off , he’s got the rules on his side for once, he has done right, it aint militant, it’s looking after his own interests and trying to ensure he doesn’t get shafted again.
he could of legally put it down as break, why is that bending over?
what happens if someone was sat there 5h15m, say it takes him 30 mins to find the wagon, couple up, checks etc, 15 minutes out of the gate - sorry lads i’m downing tools for a break
what about if someone is sat there for 5h59m, planner turns up with the keys, sorry fella i’m on a break in a minute
stevieboy308:
Personally I think you were being unnecessarily militant, but then you may have your reasons. as rog said it could of gone down as break, they might just remember when you want an early finish or they need to make someone redundant.
Ignore this you did exactly the right thing,well done if we all did it we might just get somewhere
Exactly, why should he bend over ffs , just to be sure not to upset them and they find a way to ■■■■ him off , he’s got the rules on his side for once, he has done right, it aint militant, it’s looking after his own interests and trying to ensure he doesn’t get shafted again.
he could of legally put it down as break, why is that bending over?
what happens if someone was sat there 5h15m, say it takes him 30 mins to find the wagon, couple up, checks etc, 15 minutes out of the gate - sorry lads i’m downing tools for a break
what about if someone is sat there for 5h59m, planner turns up with the keys, sorry fella i’m on a break in a minute
that’s the regs so be it
or you could use the part of the regs that allow the time to be a break
I can remember when i was on for an agency, i got to the customers depot at around 7-8pm, to start a shift, got told no unit available,and i would have to wait for one,after must of been 3-4 hrs had passed still no sign of a unit, and sick of sitting in a cold waiting room with sweet FA in it , I decided enough was enough asked how much longer before a unit would be free, Could not get a proper answer , so i told them how it was gonna be, If there was no unit available withing the next 30mins i’m gone, & boll ocks to this hanging around with no reliable info, plus the fact as far as i was concerned i had been on duty since i booked on ,(got paid 8hrs min per shift) they had booked too many drivers , that’s not my fault , I went home got paid for 8hrs too,
Most companies that i worked out of whilst on agency , would class your booking on time as the start of your shift, and wouldn’t knowingly have you working after the 13-15hrs dutry time they would count any time from booking on, as duty time, none of this poa non-sense
We can all try and do our best and stick to what we think is within the law, but this really all comes down to people on a daily rate verses people on a hourly one
If your company is asking … sorry telling you to take POA when your waiting for a unit , fully knowing your only going to earn X amount for either a 8 hour day or a 15 , then I would start looking for new employers , well unless that said daily rate is
Wagsie100:
We can all try and do our best and stick to what we think is within the law, but this really all comes down to people on a daily rate verses people on a hourly one
If your company is asking … sorry telling you to take POA when your waiting for a unit , fully knowing your only going to earn X amount for either a 8 hour day or a 15 , then I would start looking for new employers , well unless that said daily rate is
don’t think anyone can force you to work a 15 not a planed 15 anyhow
Wagsie100:
We can all try and do our best and stick to what we think is within the law, but this really all comes down to people on a daily rate verses people on a hourly one
If your company is asking … sorry telling you to take POA when your waiting for a unit , fully knowing your only going to earn X amount for either a 8 hour day or a 15 , then I would start looking for new employers , well unless that said daily rate is
don’t think anyone can force you to work a 15 not a planed 15 anyhow
Your right they cant, but if your not up to the job they’ll just find someone who is.
Wagsie100:
We can all try and do our best and stick to what we think is within the law, but this really all comes down to people on a daily rate verses people on a hourly one
If your company is asking … sorry telling you to take POA when your waiting for a unit , fully knowing your only going to earn X amount for either a 8 hour day or a 15 , then I would start looking for new employers , well unless that said daily rate is
don’t think anyone can force you to work a 15 not a planed 15 anyhow
No but they can plan a 9 hour rest period into your day
This is no help to your original post but you now have an idea that you truck could be late and as you trainer as told you to use POA if that happens again. The 2 hours and 15 minutes can now be used as a guide, and you will not need to be told in advanced. So if you come to work and are told your truck is not available you could use upto 2 hours 15 minutes as POA but if it goes over that you have to change back to break or rest.
I have done this and have been stopped by vosa and there have never asked me why I used POA, and you got to think this out, how would vosa know you where not given ETA
I’m a sensible fella and willing to bend and give a little, the reason I stood my ground a little today was because the run was not realistic given that I had been sat over 2hrs waiting for a unit.
Had I been sat 5hrs 45m and then they popped through and asked me to do something reasonable I would be reasonable in return and crack on with it bending a little on the way if I had to, I am not however going to bend rules and speed just to ensure I end up doing a 14+hr shift, not when I can play the rules to the letter and do a 11/12 hr shift for the same money.
I am actually quite happy where I am working, today was not something they have thrown at me before but I think it is important to show you will not be treated like a door mat else they would do it all the time.
As it happened the night planner saw my sense after speaking with me, and I even offered to meet them half way with the second part of the run but he decided to pull me straight back to the yard, which I was obviously very happy with as you may imagine, finished on 11.5hrs instead of 14hrs maybe 15hrs.
So what I have learn’t about POA today ■■ well it still seems about as vague as it ever could be, however a couple of very credible posts on page one which contradict each other make it even more confusing lol.
What have I learn’t about planned hours today ■■ well that also seems about as vague as it could ever be.
If anyone has anything in definitive writing on either I would be interested to know, just so I know, the last thing I want to do is enter a discussion with the driver/trainer and be armed with the wrong attitude and wrong information, especially when I am happy enough in the job, I certainly do not want to be an awkward so and so just for the sake of it and then prove to be standing on the wrong soap box in the first place.
Now i’m just guessing here but i reckon his trainer is going to show him that leaflet, specifically the bit where it says…
Periods of availability are periods of time during which the mobile worker is not required to remain at their workstation but is required to be available for work, the foreseeable duration of which are known about in advance for example:- . Delays at a distribution centre. .Time spent travelling in the vehicle (only if no work is carried out such as navigating). . Reporting for work then being informed that no duties are to be undertaken for a specified period. .Accompanying a vehicle being transported by boat or train. A PoA can be taken at the workstation. Providing the worker has a reasonable amount of freedom (e.g. they can read and relax) for a known duration, this could satisfy the requirements of a PoA.
And thanks to anyone else who chirped in with their interpretation of the rules…
ROG:
If you get paid for break then book on other work for a few mins then record break until you need to work or drive
but that could still mess up his day Rog and after all he’s still gotta get breaks in also don’t help when we don’t know what the drivers waiting room is like. But I would and have done the same break when I want it.
How would taking break instead of POA before he starts driving mess up his day ? - please explain
Rog you should know vosa takes a dim view of booking on for duty then booking break , and a lot of places I’ve worked for don’t like it and ur not really at break are you
Why would VOSA take a dim view for doing something legal ■■?
It would be recorded as break but not counted as a driving time break because at that point no driving has been done
It cannot be POA unless the length of time is know in advance
Recording it as other work is also incorrect if not working
stevieboy308:
Personally I think you were being unnecessarily militant, but then you may have your reasons. as rog said it could of gone down as break, they might just remember when you want an early finish or they need to make someone redundant.
Ignore this you did exactly the right thing,well done if we all did it we might just get somewhere
Yes the bloody dole queue,What a load of pedantic horse manure!
No wonder they want more Poles in this country,Listen to yourselves for christ sake.
stevieboy308:
Personally I think you were being unnecessarily militant, but then you may have your reasons. as rog said it could of gone down as break, they might just remember when you want an early finish or they need to make someone redundant.
Ignore this you did exactly the right thing,well done if we all did it we might just get somewhere
Yes the bloody dole queue,What a load of pedantic horse manure!
No wonder they want more Poles in this country,Listen to yourselves for christ sake.
Why are poles ok to break the law? It’s quite simple if you are not told in advance or know from past experience how long it will be it cant go down as POA even if they say 15 mins and your actually 4 hrs is ok
There are some very big names in the game who operate in the way the OP has indicated. ie no specific advance notice of the duration of POA, just the procedure that “operational requirements” dictate that waiting for a vehicle or a load to become ready will be a period of availability. Drivers will be expected to work in this manner.
This becomes a real problem when that wait has been more than, say, an hour and a half. That is a long time to be sitting around in what may not be particularly comfortable surroundings. For some, this then means that after a two or three hour wait at he start of shift, there is then the expectation that a continuous period of six hours work will be undertaken. That means maybe nine hours before a proper break period when some actual ‘rest’ can be had.
This is not what the regulations intended, but just the way business gets round “red tape”.
, just to be sure not to upset them and they find a way to ■■■■ him off 
, he’s got the rules on his side for once, he has done right, it aint militant, it’s looking after his own interests and trying to ensure he doesn’t get shafted again.
