I have just had my training course on the EU hours and Road Transport Directive. I have a question that my line manager could not answer. I was hoping that this community might be able to help.
The scenario is I have broken down and a POA has been approved for the time it takes for the break down services to come out and asses the fault. As a result of this it has been determined that I need a tow truck to recover my vehicle. So a further POA has been approved whilst I await a tow truck.
Now I am sitting in the tow truck with my vehicle jacked up behind and I am sitting in the cab for the time it takes for me to get back to base. Would this time in transit be classed as POA or as work?
I ask this because as I understand it POA is classed as time available for work but I am free with in reason to spend this time how I like, e.g. reading the news paper, listening to the radio, but not part of a mandatory break.
In a double manned scenario the person who isn’t driving can claim the time in the passenger seat as POA so this wouldn’t be much different. You know roughly the time it is going to take to get back to base, which meets one of the criteria for POA, and you will be available to resume work on your return, even if it is just for a minute or two to debrief and clock off.
On the other hand does it make much difference if you claim it as Other Work, POA or Break? All are still included in your overall duty time for the shift. If you are concerned that it doesn’t meet the requirements of a POA and you get paid for breaks then claim it as a break.
I should have said in my original post that I am a Royal Mail driver and we are in the process of switching to these rules. So please bare with me as I am not so familiar with the EU driving rules as the rest of you out in the industry.
Please lets not get into a Royal Mail bashing session.
So in response to jessicas dad.
Do you have say on your time sheet what your poa is spent doing?
We do not have time sheets. What we do have is a set duty hours with regular routes and standard times for getting from say our office at Tonbridge to our office at Princess Royal Distribution Centre. So. According to my line manager all information including time spent on POA will be logged on a new computer system that can be accessed by VOSA at any time. Sorry I can not remember the name of this computer system but apparently it is VOSA approved for the industry.
As a break down is not a normal part of the duty and will as Coffeeholic pointed out it will all count towards my working hours. I was more concerned on where or how I should record this on my tacho for the day?
Never mind the mail being late , you lot getting to grips with details of the WTD is later than the mail could ever be
Horses for courses and all that but it still strikes me as very odd that drivers book poa .
Fair enough hourly paid drivers benefit from it but a salaried driver doesn’t .
A salaried driver is screwing his or herself by booking poa , it’s more hours towards your 48 the company can have from you if you book poa .
I’ve never booked it .
paul@midway:
A salaried driver is screwing his or herself by booking poa , it’s more hours towards your 48 the company can have from you if you book poa .
I’ve never booked it .
Yaldingweir:
I ask this because as I understand it POA is classed as time available for work but I am free with in reason to spend this time how I like, e.g. reading the news paper, listening to the radio, but not part of a mandatory break.
isn’t one of the conditions of POA that you do not have to remain at your workstation?
Yaldingweir:
I ask this because as I understand it POA is classed as time available for work but I am free with in reason to spend this time how I like, e.g. reading the news paper, listening to the radio, but not part of a mandatory break.
isn’t one of the conditions of POA that you do not have to remain at your workstation?
Correct, you are not required to remain at your workstation but you can if you want. In a breakdown it is generally advisable not to remain in the vehicle so technically he wouldn’t be at his workstation.
Yaldingweir:
I should have said in my original post that I am a Royal Mail driver and we are in the process of switching to these rules. So please bare with me as I am not so familiar with the EU driving rules as the rest of you out in the industry.
Sorry if I am slow on the uptake here but what rules have the royal mail been following since 1985?
Limestone Cowboy
Sorry if I am slow on the uptake here but what rules have the royal mail been following since 1985?
According to my manager Royal Mail has had a number of privileges being a crown owned company which have been slowly removed.
Now because the whole shake up in the postal/courier industry and our regulator. We have now lost the ability to work under UK domestic driver rules, which we have done for a very long time.
As Coffee said - when double-manning, the second driver can (and if using a digital tacho, has no choice) be on a POA. I think this skates around the ‘not be required to remain at the work-station’ bit with the proviso ‘if elects to do so for reasons of safety’
How safe would you feel running along behind the tow truck?
So, in my opinion, POA. But as has been said, don’t book it if you won’t benefit!
technically…you are booked off…the vehicle is on tow…and doesnt need a second driver…so you are free as a bird…but like many drivers…instead of making your own way back to the depot…we accept a free ride ! hope you remembered to take your tacho out…
the rules that royal mail have been running under since 1985…is the zero rule…they were exempt from the rules, same as the military…as far as im aware..correct me if im wrong…
Yaldingweir:
IThe scenario is I have broken down and a POA has been approved for the time it takes for the break down services to come out and asses the fault. As a result of this it has been determined that I need a tow truck to recover my vehicle. So a further POA has been approved whilst I await a tow truck.
Now I am sitting in the tow truck with my vehicle jacked up behind and I am sitting in the cab for the time it takes for me to get back to base. Would this time in transit be classed as POA or as work?
Its classed as work. To fulfill the POA requirements you need to ‘not have to be available at your work station’. Clearly, due to the breakdown you have to be available?
Yaldingweir:
I have just had my training course on the EU hours and Road Transport Directive. I have a question that my line manager could not answer. I was hoping that this community might be able to help.
The scenario is I have broken down and a POA has been approved for the time it takes for the break down services to come out and asses the fault. As a result of this it has been determined that I need a tow truck to recover my vehicle. So a further POA has been approved whilst I await a tow truck.
Now I am sitting in the tow truck with my vehicle jacked up behind and I am sitting in the cab for the time it takes for me to get back to base. Would this time in transit be classed as POA or as work?
I ask this because as I understand it POA is classed as time available for work but I am free with in reason to spend this time how I like, e.g. reading the news paper, listening to the radio, but not part of a mandatory break.
ou are right,if you havent worked.and watching a other working could be just working for you if you were on Training.
Yaldingweir:
IThe scenario is I have broken down and a POA has been approved for the time it takes for the break down services to come out and asses the fault. As a result of this it has been determined that I need a tow truck to recover my vehicle. So a further POA has been approved whilst I await a tow truck.
Now I am sitting in the tow truck with my vehicle jacked up behind and I am sitting in the cab for the time it takes for me to get back to base. Would this time in transit be classed as POA or as work?
Its classed as work. To fulfill the POA requirements you need to ‘not have to be available at your work station’. Clearly, due to the breakdown you have to be available?
Why does he have to be available at his work station just because he’s broken down ■■?
If there was a cafe right by it he could go and have a meal.
If he was approacing the end of his working day i.e had done a spread of 13 1/2 hours and the recovery was going to take more than 90 minutes then his employer would have to send a vehicle to pick him up and transport him back.
Willy Gofar:
If he was approacing the end of his working day i.e had done a spread of 13 1/2 hours and the recovery was going to take more than 90 minutes then his employer would have to send a vehicle to pick him up and transport him back.
As long as that was done within the 90 minutes remaining of his shift, travelling back to base, whether driving or being driven and regardless of who owns the vehicle, is still classed as duty time.
