kemaro:
its nice to see something positive about becoming an owner driver.
I am looking at becoming an owner driver, I am hard working honest reliable and a good driver, only i cant find a job to match it as everybody wants to pay you peanuts for all the hours in the world. Im in the industry moving plant and agricultural machinery so as this is what i know this is what i will stick with, I plan to buy an 18ton gross beavertail with a sleeper, i have seen one im interested in its used 02, i will be based in south west london moving plant around london and around the uk, i plan to tap into the farming community back home in pembrokeshire to see if i can drum up some direct business moving loads to and from there down south to keep me running steady, im 27 and have the drive and ambition to make this a success, I dont plan to be the next eddie stobbart but just want to keep my self busy making enough for me my truck and fiance to live comfortable. the hardest part is the start up and getting the whells rolling,i.e finding the right customers so any info on where to look for loads of this nature would be great, i will also try to advertise my services in such places like farmers weekly and plant trader and get in touch with various plant and construction companies, farmers and auction rooms that deal with this, it all sounds good when written down here costing nothing, i just hope i can get the funds together to make it work, any feedback would much appreciataed. thanks.
I wouldn’t criticise someone wishing to give it a go and I wish you good luck if you proceed. You have the right idea about ‘doing your own thing’ alongside the more bread-and-butter type work that pays regularly. If you can work it right and get 75% of a weeks work out of a large firm and then do bits for yourself in the other 25% you will do ok I’m sure.
One word of warning, I am generalising and may get slaughtered, but BEWARE FARMERS, they tend to be so tight with their money that you’ll have to prise your cheque from their cold dead hand!
kemaro:
its nice to see something positive about becoming an owner driver.
I am looking at becoming an owner driver, I am hard working honest reliable and a good driver, only i cant find a job to match it as everybody wants to pay you peanuts for all the hours in the world. Im in the industry moving plant and agricultural machinery so as this is what i know this is what i will stick with, I plan to buy an 18ton gross beavertail with a sleeper, i have seen one im interested in its used 02, i will be based in south west london moving plant around london and around the uk, i plan to tap into the farming community back home in pembrokeshire to see if i can drum up some direct business moving loads to and from there down south to keep me running steady, im 27 and have the drive and ambition to make this a success, I dont plan to be the next eddie stobbart but just want to keep my self busy making enough for me my truck and fiance to live comfortable. the hardest part is the start up and getting the whells rolling,i.e finding the right customers so any info on where to look for loads of this nature would be great, i will also try to advertise my services in such places like farmers weekly and plant trader and get in touch with various plant and construction companies, farmers and auction rooms that deal with this, it all sounds good when written down here costing nothing, i just hope i can get the funds together to make it work, any feedback would much appreciataed. thanks.
Excellent and very helpful original post Lance…
But…
Sorry Kemaro, I hate to burst your bubble here!
From reading your posts you’ve only had your Class 2 licence three years!
Do you honestly think that’s enough experience in this industry - let alone sufficient driving experience - to go down the highly risky, perilous road of the owner driver?
I admire your enthusiasm and ambition - but right now, courtesy of your inexperience in general, it’s seriously misplaced!
Seriously, you need to widen your horizons and get a few more years driving experience at least, preferably on the back of a Class One licence.
Most important of all you need to get to know this industry properly and the people who populate it long before you consider striking out on your own!
You say you are “hard working honest reliable and a good driver” but you “can’t find a job to match”.
My sympathies go out to you - but the highly unpredictable, highly competitive, rarely honest nature of self-employment in this business, is not your immediate answer !
the way the fuel is spiraling out of control coupled with other costs and yes my lack of experience, i have decided to put the brakes on that idea altogether.
dieseldan340:
Friend,I was an Employee too,before I became an Owner Driver,and then running a small fleet.I remember what I gave my Gaffer for the dough he paid me: I was polite and reasonable tidily dressed,I did what I was asked,I looked after the motor and his customers.If I didn’t like the job or the Gaffer took the p*ss I served my notice and left the firm.I didn’t holler and shout about it,or blame them because I didn’t like the gig ,because there were always other Drivers who thought the job was ok,and I’m not so smart that I thought I was right and they were wrong.If I dinged the motor I apologised,because someone had to pay for my mistake,and it wasn’t going to be me.And I never,ever,ran bent.
Once I accepted a job the money was irrelevant,because I took the job knowing what I going to get.I did the best I could,all the time And thats what I want out of a Driver.
And there’s nothing wrong with that, but I note you’ve conveniently left out the most important factor in all this - the money.
You can be the greatest boss in the world but none of it matters if the money isn’t right and 9 times out of 10 what gaffer’s think is a good wage actually isn’t.
I used to work for a small haulage company in N Yorks with about 15 artics and the owner was truly a great guy - he’d buy any interior or exterior “mod” you wanted for your truck and was very accomodating of your own personal commitments buy he only paid £6/hr all hours and he thought that was a good wage.
It would be interesting to know what type of work you did, where in the country you’re based and how much you paid your drivers. I bet there’d be a few, erm, “anomalies” shall we say.
Rob K:
I used to work for a small haulage company in N Yorks with about 15 artics and the owner was truly a great guy - he’d buy any interior or exterior “mod” you wanted for your truck and was very accomodating of your own personal commitments buy he only paid £6/hr all hours and he thought that was a good wage.
Aw, Rob, now I have images of you, hanging tassles & polishing Malcs chrome
Rob K:
It would be interesting to know what type of work you did, where in the country you’re based and how much you paid your drivers. I bet there’d be a few, erm, “anomalies” shall we say.
yes but rob, if the man said £ 25 per hour all hours and a lolly on fridays you’d say it wasn’t enough - you forget, you’re on a higher plain that the rest of the hoi-polloi on here
Rob K:
I used to work for a small haulage company in N Yorks with about 15 artics and the owner was truly a great guy - he’d buy any interior or exterior “mod” you wanted for your truck and was very accomodating of your own personal commitments buy he only paid £6/hr all hours and he thought that was a good wage.
Aw, Rob, now I have images of you, hanging tassles & polishing Malcs chrome
No frilly curtains or tassles in my truck I can assure you! It did have a light bar but it was already there when I got it, so nerr!
Rob K:
It would be interesting to know what type of work you did, where in the country you’re based and how much you paid your drivers. I bet there’d be a few, erm, “anomalies” shall we say.
yes but rob, if the man said £ 25 per hour all hours and a lolly on fridays you’d say it wasn’t enough - you forget, you’re on a higher plain that the rest of the hoi-polloi on here
Not £25 all hours! It’s time and a half after 8 hours!! Get it right jj !
No, if the work is easy enough then I’ll happily work for a tenner an hour and time 1.5 after 8 in my parts without any complaint, and I don’t think that’s an unreasonable request when local agencies are paying only a few pence short of that themselves.
Money shouldn’t be an issue if you know what you’re getting before you take on the job.If I accepted the rate was £6.00 an hour,I still give 100% effort.After all,no one forced me to take the job on,it was solely my own choice.And if I didn’t like the job after I’d taken it on,I’ll close the door behind me on the way out…
In my opinion,Agencies are able to pay more money because they put most drivers into Own Account operators:ASDA/Tesco et al etc are not interested in making a profit out of road haulage,to them transport is just another cost involved in selling cornflakes etc.Spread the cost of a very expensive Driver ,(plus the Agencies cut!) over a full load of groceries and it’s a very insignificant amount:if you’re a genuine haulier then the cost of the Driver,(especially on a Sunday),may well exceed what you might get for the whole job.
Also,while an Agency bloke can boast about earning £200 for a short sunday shift,if there ain’t no work on monday or tuesday,that £200 over 3 days doesn’t look so rosy ,does it?
I know some fellers on the Agency:they can’t understand why I’m turning down work,I’ve got trucks in the yard,and yet they are sitting at home with no work.Nor do they have any idea of how much the Agency charges for a Driver…
I’m in the expensive part of the Country,I pay more than some in our Industry,and less than others.Pay isn’t by the hour,it’s by the day:some days are very long,some are short.Loads of sitting about doing nothing,lots of nights away,pretty miserable existence to be honest…
dieseldan340:
I’m in the expensive part of the Country,I pay more than some in our Industry,and less than others.Pay isn’t by the hour,it’s by the day:some days are very long,some are short.Loads of sitting about doing nothing,lots of nights away,pretty miserable existence to be honest…
Well there’s your problem : paying a day rate. As suspected, you’re stuck in the dark ages. Assuming that you’re in the London - Northants area then to be competitive you should be paying minimum of £185 per day (8hrs basic x £10/hr + 7hrs overtime x £15/hr). The fact some days “may” be shorter than others is irrelevant and that’s why you can’t keep drivers . Drivers aren’t stupid and know full well that these “day rates” are always geared in the gaffer’s favour; I’ll bet my house on it that there are far more long days than there are short ones.
Also, paying by the day is proof that you don’t trust your drivers as well. People only pay a day rate when they fear the employee will take the ■■■■ and hang the job out. By paying a day rate they think that that solves the problem but all it does is encourages them to break the law and do the work as quickly as possible in order to achieve the highest £/hr rate. The reality is that only the stupid fall for that gag and those that do very soon realise that when they do some simple math and divide their wage by the amount of hours they’ve done, they’re actually working for less than minimum wage in a lot of cases.
Rob K:
Drivers aren’t stupid and know full well that these “day rates” are always geared in the gaffer’s favour; I’ll bet my house on it that there are far more long days than there are short ones.
Not always true, I’ve had some jobs through the agency on a day rate in the past that have been a great little earner. One in particular I used to get the equivalent of 10.5 paid hours on the hourly rate (8 at time and 2.5 at time and a half) and for that I only did more than the basic 8h about one day in ten and even then it was only 9 or 10h tops. I managed 6 or 7 weeks solid on that one before they recruited a new full timer into the job.
I have also, of course, done some the exact opposite, where it’s 9 days out of 10 that you’re losing out…
Agency day rates are a whole different bag to employer day rates. Agencies don’t care as they’re charging the client an arm and a leg and making a tidy profit.
dieseldan340:
I’m in the expensive part of the Country,I pay more than some in our Industry,and less than others.Pay isn’t by the hour,it’s by the day:some days are very long,some are short.Loads of sitting about doing nothing,lots of nights away,pretty miserable existence to be honest…
Well there’s your problem : paying a day rate. As suspected, you’re stuck in the dark ages. Assuming that you’re in the London - Northants area then to be competitive you should be paying minimum of £185 per day (8hrs basic x £10/hr + 7hrs overtime x £15/hr). The fact some days “may” be shorter than others is irrelevant and that’s why you can’t keep drivers . Drivers aren’t stupid and know full well that these “day rates” are always geared in the gaffer’s favour; I’ll bet my house on it that there are far more long days than there are short ones.
Also, paying by the day is proof that you don’t trust your drivers as well. People only pay a day rate when they fear the employee will take the ■■■■ and hang the job out. By paying a day rate they think that that solves the problem but all it does is encourages them to break the law and do the work as quickly as possible in order to achieve the highest £/hr rate. The reality is that only the stupid fall for that gag and those that do very soon realise that when they do some simple math and divide their wage by the amount of hours they’ve done, they’re actually working for less than minimum wage in a lot of cases.
Hmm…£185 a day,eh?.so thats,let me see,5 x £185 = £925 gross weekly,a lot of our stuff is seven days away so you’ll be after 7 x £185 = £1295 + your night out money,7 x £25 = £175 + your £1295 basic and it’s a topline of £1475.00…then I’ve got to add the 11% odd for employers contribution to your national Insurance,and another 10% ish for your holidays…my,my,I wish I could get a job in your world,Mr K.It all adds up to a whopping £1800 + for a seven day week…oh well,I suppose you’re worth it,so I’ll send you an application form,shall I?
Sorry,I just can’t afford you,friend.And your employer obviously values you very highly,because you’re earning more than most Doctors do,even round here!
You don’t work in our part of the business,but there are several others on here who do.And they’ll all tell you the same thing.EVERYONE in our biz pays by the day.And there are plenty of short days,I can assure you.It’s not because “the Gaffer”,is making out of it,it’s because it’s convenient.The Driver knows what he’s getting,regardless of how long it takes,and the Operator can quote the job without ■■■■■■■■ about taking an extra hour to load or tip,or the Production Manager moving the goalposts a bit,etc,etc.And the majority of the lads and lasses in our game are extremely talented and qualified,so please don’t think they can be conned into accepting anything less than reasonable
Thanks ever so much though, for pointing out where I’ve gone wrong,I really,really appreciate it.I’m sure a lot of other people on this,(the Operators forum),will benefit from your undoubted wisdom and degree in economics…
i pay my drivers day rate of 100 some days 12 hours most days 10 but they still get same if only 1 load 10 mile up road 4 hour shift. hope they think im fair as wouldent take ■■■■ out of my lads as they are my income.
The reason,friend,is crap drivers.There are very few available with the professional attitude that I require.Or maybe they think I ask too much of them.
But I do know this: I can,and will, do the job as follows:
without ranting and raving at my Gaffer
without abusing the Customer
without breaking the Law
without damaging the truck
without thieving diesel
without lying and misleading people
without holding a gun to my Gaffers head for more money when it’s too late to find someone else to do the job.
without letting my personal problems interfere with my work.
and without blaming everyone else but myself for my personal problems and situation.
I’m not packing up,me old mate,far from it.I’m going back to earning myself a good living,without all the dead wood that thinks I owe them a living too
Friend, I was an Employee too,before I became an Owner Driver,and then running a small fleet.I remember what I gave my Gaffer for the dough he paid me: I was polite and reasonable tidily dressed,I did what I was asked,I looked after the motor and his customers.If I didn’t like the job or the Gaffer took the p*ss I served my notice and left the firm.I didn’t holler and shout about it,or blame them because I didn’t like the gig ,because there were always other Drivers who thought the job was ok,and I’m not so smart that I thought I was right and they were wrong.If I dinged the motor I apologised,because someone had to pay for my mistake,and it wasn’t going to be me.And I never,ever,ran bent.
Once I accepted a job the money was irrelevant,because I took the job knowing what I going to get.I did the best I could,all the time
And thats what I want out of a Driver.
You know what one of mine said to me as he drove out of the yard for the last time? “you know what your problem is?.you treat your blokes with too much respect,and they walk all over you”…
Yep,that WAS my problem all right…
I’m going to run just the two,and sell the other three.I’m going to drive the Artic,and I’ve got a really good bloke driving the rigid on a night trunk,been with me a couple of years,really nice,reliable fella.When/if he leaves or retires,I’ll get rid of that motor as well…
dieseldan340:
And the majority of the lads and lasses in our game are extremely talented and qualified,so please don’t think they can be conned into accepting anything less than reasonable
Thanks ever so much though, for pointing out where I’ve gone wrong,I really,really appreciate it.I’m sure a lot of other people on this,(the Operators forum),will benefit from your undoubted wisdom and degree in economics…
mjt:
i pay my drivers day rate of 100 some days 12 hours most days 10 but they still get same if only 1 load 10 mile up road 4 hour shift. hope they think im fair as wouldent take ■■■■ out of my lads as they are my income.
dieseldan340:
I’m in the expensive part of the Country,I pay more than some in our Industry,and less than others.Pay isn’t by the hour,it’s by the day:some days are very long,some are short.Loads of sitting about doing nothing,lots of nights away,pretty miserable existence to be honest…
Well there’s your problem : paying a day rate. As suspected, you’re stuck in the dark ages. Assuming that you’re in the London - Northants area then to be competitive you should be paying minimum of £185 per day (8hrs basic x £10/hr + 7hrs overtime x £15/hr). The fact some days “may” be shorter than others is irrelevant and that’s why you can’t keep drivers . Drivers aren’t stupid and know full well that these “day rates” are always geared in the gaffer’s favour; I’ll bet my house on it that there are far more long days than there are short ones.
Also, paying by the day is proof that you don’t trust your drivers as well. People only pay a day rate when they fear the employee will take the ■■■■ and hang the job out. By paying a day rate they think that that solves the problem but all it does is encourages them to break the law and do the work as quickly as possible in order to achieve the highest £/hr rate. The reality is that only the stupid fall for that gag and those that do very soon realise that when they do some simple math and divide their wage by the amount of hours they’ve done, they’re actually working for less than minimum wage in a lot of cases.
Hmm…£185 a day,eh?.so thats,let me see,5 x £185 = £925 gross weekly,a lot of our stuff is seven days away so you’ll be after 7 x £185 = £1295 + your night out money,7 x £25 = £175 + your £1295 basic and it’s a topline of £1475.00…then I’ve got to add the 11% odd for employers contribution to your national Insurance,and another 10% ish for your holidays…my,my,I wish I could get a job in your world,Mr K.It all adds up to a whopping £1800 + for a seven day week…oh well,I suppose you’re worth it,so I’ll send you an application form,shall I?
Sorry,I just can’t afford you,friend.And your employer obviously values you very highly,because you’re earning more than most Doctors do,even round here!
You don’t work in our part of the business,but there are several others on here who do.And they’ll all tell you the same thing.EVERYONE in our biz pays by the day.And there are plenty of short days,I can assure you.It’s not because “the Gaffer”,is making out of it,it’s because it’s convenient.The Driver knows what he’s getting,regardless of how long it takes,and the Operator can quote the job without ■■■■■■■■ about taking an extra hour to load or tip,or the Production Manager moving the goalposts a bit,etc,etc.And the majority of the lads and lasses in our game are extremely talented and qualified,so please don’t think they can be conned into accepting anything less than reasonable
Thanks ever so much though, for pointing out where I’ve gone wrong,I really,really appreciate it.I’m sure a lot of other people on this,(the Operators forum),will benefit from your undoubted wisdom and degree in economics…
LOL! And you wonder why your drivers don’t stay with that attitude!
Your figures are also exaggerated to epic proportions. It’s clear you know very little about the rules and regs when you’re quoting 5x £185. Where do you get your 4th and 5th day from when you can only do 3x 15s in a week?
You’ve clearly got your head stuck in the sand. £10/hr and time 1.5 after 8hrs is not uncommon in the “expensive” parts of the country which you claim to be in but if you reckon I’m talking rubbish then fine, your loss not mine. You’re the one moaning that all your drivers are ■■■■ and from your reply above, now you know why - you pay peanuts, just like I expected.
As stated previously,a lot of our work is 7 days away.The Driver gets paid regardless of whether he/she is working, @ the same daily rate.It matters not a jot how long the day is,as previously stated.Using YOUR figure of £185.00 per day,I stand by my previous post regarding how much you would be expecting per week.
And btw,I’m pretty sure I know my driving hours/working hours regs by now,but I appreciate you reaffirming them for me,As does everone else on the Operators Forum,I’m sure…
I bet there’d be a few, erm, “anomalies” shall we say.
No frilly curtains or tassles in my truck I can assure you! It did have a light bar but it was already there when I got it, so nerr!
