Off to do some more reading lol.
ajdavis64:
Off to do some more reading lol.
That’s what I did when I started on this path BUT I put my own slant/meaning on what was actually there 
The help I got from the site GURUs like coffeeholic was to question my own beliefs and really take on board what I was reading actually said.
I found that using examples done in the format I used above for that pretend shift helped me to understand.
ROG:
Break 2100 to 2115 (N)
this break would not be needed Rog as he as had the required break of 45 min in that day
If the mobile workers were to work longer than 9 hours than total breaks for the day would be
45 minutes.
i know your going to say that the driver worked 6 hours and the break is required but, in the RTD it says the quote above
delboytwo:
ROG:
Break 2100 to 2115 (N)this break would not be needed Rog as he as had the required break of 45 min in that day
If the mobile workers were to work longer than 9 hours than total breaks for the day would be
45 minutes.
Gotcha !!! - see (J) 
i have just edited it Rog
delboytwo:
i have just edited it Rog
Was it one of those things that you realise just after posting it but were too slow to edit it before someone quoted the error 
i still stand by post that break in not required
delboytwo:
i still stand by post that break in not required
What about the max 6 hour RTD(WTD) rule (J) to (M)
ROG:
delboytwo:
i still stand by post that break in not requiredWhat about the max 6 hour RTD(WTD) rule (J) to (M)
it does not come into it Rog he as already have the 45 for RTD/WTD an EU regs
The Regulations require that:
mobile workers must not work more than 6 consecutive hours without taking a break,
breaks should be of at least 15 minutes duration.
DEFFO GOTCHA
ROG:
The Regulations require that:
mobile workers must not work more than 6 consecutive hours without taking a break,
breaks should be of at least 15 minutes duration.
DEFFO GOTCHA
no you have not mate, the bit you don’t seam to get is this bit and it in the regs
The Regulations require that:
- mobile workers must not work more than 6 consecutive hours without taking a break,
- if your working hours total between 6 and 9 hours, working time should be interrupted by a
break or breaks totalling at least 30 minutes,- if your working hours total more than 9 hours, working time should be interrupted by a break
or breaks totalling at least 45 minutes,- breaks should be of at least 15 minutes duration.
If the mobile workers were to work longer than 9 hours than total breaks for the day would be
45 minutes.
you he as met is wtd of 45 mins Rog the is no need to take any more break under RTD/WTD
this is why under EU regs you have to take 45 min for 4.5 hours driving if you do an other 4.5 hours driving you would have to take a 45 min break and this would be the only extra break you would need and as you driver did not go over the 4.5 hour drive no break required
delboytwo:
it does not come into it Rog he as already have the 45 for RTD/WTD an EU regs
It does come into it Del, we discussed this in another thread recently. Even if you have already taken the amount of break required for a shift with over 9 hours work Section 7 (1) still applies.
Breaks
7. - (1) No mobile worker shall work for more than six hours without a break.
That doesn’t just apply to the first 6 hours work in the shift, it applies to any 6 hour work period. That applies whether it is hours 1 - 6, 6 - 12 or any continuous period of 6 hours regardless of where it falls in the shift.
If you worked 30 minutes and took a 45 minute break you then couldn’t work for 7, 8, 9 10, or more hours without another break, you would require 15 minutes when you hit the 6 hours of work since the earlier break because the regulations clearly state you cannot work more than 6 hours without a break. Sections 7 (2) and (3) simply define the minimum amount of break required but because of section 7 (1) more than teh minimum may be required.
delboytwo:
you he as met is wtd of 45 mins Rog the is no need to take any more break under RTD/WTD
Every need
delboytwo:
this is why under EU regs you have to take 45 min for 4.5 hours driving if you do an other 4.5 hours driving you would have to take a 45 min break and this would be the only extra break you would need and as you driver did not go over the 4.5 hour drive no break required
Why are you applying different interpretation to what is basically the same thing? The tacho rules say no more than 4.5 hours driving without at least a 45 minute break, and you are correctly interpreting this as 4.5 hours, break, 4.5 hours, break. However, where the WTD says no more than 6 hours work without at least 15 minutes break you are only applying it to the first 6 hours of work in the shift.
mobile workers must not work more than 6 consecutive hours without taking a break,
this is the bit that is very important as the driver worked more than 6 hours without a beak no he as no he have a break at
ROG:
Break 1300 to 1315 (F)
he had is break
it does not say anywhere in the regs every 6 hours only that the driver as to have a break
in the regs by
this is how it is worded
-
- (1) No mobile worker shall work for more than six hours without a break.
and as he as had is break the other break is not required cos he also took a break of 30 mins which is what is required for the day if the driver works for over nine hours
Think about what the RTD (WTD) is trying to achieve Del.
(X) They impose a minmum break time =
breaks should be of at least 15 minutes duration
(Y) It is trying (very trying ) to stop workers doing long periods without having a break.
- to do this they impose a 6 hour max rule =
mobile workers must not work more than 6 consecutive hours without taking a break
(Z) It is also trying to make sure that the total of breaks taken during the period from starting and finishing work are are minimum amount.
- to do this they impose EITHER =
if your working hours total between 6 and 9 hours, working time should be interrupted by a
break or breaks totalling at least 30 minutes
OR
if your working hours total more than 9 hours, working time should be interrupted by a break
or breaks totalling at least 45 minutes
Each of those are SEPERATE rules to be adhered to.
Hope that helps.
as your driver in your example had a break in 6 hours
lets see yes
1 pm till 1.15 pm
so he as for filled is requirement for that day all the driver as to do now as your driver is working over 9 hour he as to take a break of 30 mins but he did that cos he needed a driving break of 30 mins no more breaks required
Question - if a driver worked 7 hours without a break will he have broken this rule? -
mobile workers must not work more than 6 consecutive hours without taking a break
Do not quote any other rules as they do not apply to this question
delboytwo:
it does not say anywhere in the regs every 6 hours
It does Del, I’ll quote the relevent bit for you, oops no need you’ve done it your self.
delboytwo:
7. - (1) No mobile worker shall work for more than six hours without a break.
That doesn’t say just the first six hours of the shift, it say six hours.
You are doing it again Del, reading and quoting but not understanding. Read the rest of Section 7 and not a couple of important words in sections (2) and (3)
Breaks
7. (2) Where a mobile worker’s working time exceeds six hours but does not exceed nine hours, the worker shall be entitled to a break lasting at least 30 minutes and interrupting that time.(3) Where a mobile worker’s working time exceeds nine hours, the worker shall be entitled to a break lasting at least 45 minutes and interrupting that period.
The 30 and 45 minutes are the least amount of break required, not the maximum, and circumstances such as when breaks are taken may require more than the minimum to comply with the regulations, particularly Section 7 (1)
As ROG says in his last post, the WTD was brought in to prevent workers being forced into working long hours without proper breaks or rest so why would they bring in the 6 hour rule but then only apply it to the first 6 hours work in the shift?
An unscrupulous boss could have his workers work 30 minutes, take a 45 minute break and then work for 10, 11, 12 hours or more without a break, if what you are saying was correct. Section 7 (1) prevents that situation by ensuring that at no time does a worker work more than 6 continuous hours without a break of at least 15 minutes.
In example set out by ROG the driver resumed work after his 30 minute break at 15:00 and did a combination of driving and other work until 21:00, that is 6 hours without a break and Section 7 (1) clearly states that is the maximum allowed without a break so ROG correctly wrote in a 15-minute break. If he didn’t take that break and did the further 30 minutes driving and 30 minutes end of shift stuff he will have worked 7 hours without a break, how does that fit with section 7 (1)? It doesn’t so he will not have complied with the regulations.
ROG:
Question - if a driver worked 7 hours without a break will he have broken this rule? -mobile workers must not work more than 6 consecutive hours without taking a break
Yes, he will have. Simple question, simple answer.
ROG:
Do not quote any other rules as they do not apply to this question
He aint going to change the habits of a lifetime ROG, fully expect non relevant stuff to be quoted.
Sorry Del but I can only go by your previous performances. 
Coffeeholic:
He aint going to change the habits of a lifetime ROG, fully expect non relevant stuff to be quoted.
I now have an insight into what you went through with me 