i have searched the VOSA site & can’t quite find the answer I need, but to work out the answer, you need to know the “problem”.
As you might or might not know, inow run a small garage / workshop with my Son. We are considering buying a transporter of some description to provide vehicle recovery for our own customers, but would also like to use it to collect the “not so clever” vehicles from auctions (cars we have purchased).
As i understand it, RECOVERY vehicles are exempt from O licencing and Tacho, but i just can’t find the exact definition of “recovery”. Would this include for example, us using the vehicle to collect a van from an auction 100 miles away because the van had no mot, or had a broken cambelt etc ?
would it make a difference if WE had bought the van, or if it was a customers ?
our other option which avoids the O’L completely is a 4x4 + Trailer, but then we hit the tachograph problem (cost of installation i guess would be prohibitive, actually using it to abide by the DHR not a problem).
Im not going to answer your question, just confuse you further
I worked for my Brother for a while who has his own car dealership. I had at my disposal a parts van with a tow bar, a 2 axle trailer and a demo fleet of 6 four by fours.
Every time I was stopped on the road with a combination of any of these vehicles, it was like the spanish inquisition!
Who owns the trailer, who owns the car, who owns the towing vehicle?
Is the car on the trailer registered to the owner of the trailer? is the trailer owned by the operator of this vehicle? SIR
It seemed to depend which county line you were crossing at the time. I rang Harehills House and they told me it was not in their jurisdiction
i don’t doubt it for a second, hence wanting to get MY facts right for when the jobsworth pulls me
but I wouldn’t think you would convince VOSA that the vehicle had just broken down at the auction
but of course this could happen ! BT / RM & many others transport vehicles directly off fleet to the auction houses, poor muggins here comes along & buys one, only to find out that it has a fault that would make it unsafe to drive on the road. Is this a “breakdown” ■■? My whole question revolves around the definition of this, and when the recovery vehicle could be used.
Stony ground methinks.
More to the point, could go out to collect a vehicle for a customer & deliver to another point because it IS disabled ?
I recall in a recent (last 3 months) edition of one of the mags legal pages that the definition of a ‘recovery’ vehicle was quite narrow and I think there was somebody in the ‘cack’ for doing similar to what you have proposed.
I’ll try and find the article tomorrw if I get home early enough.
If you were pulled whilst transporting cars from the auction which you’d bought for resale (after mending, testing or whatever is required) then I’d say you’d be done for no O licence. You would be simply moving your ‘stock in trade’ around as do Tesco, Morrisons etc - the fact that they were motor cars rather than cabbages is of no consequence.
For this you’d need a restricted National O licence (moving your own goods only)
If you were to move a car from auction from someone else then that would be for ‘hire and reward’ and as such need a standard national O licence (a CPC holder required) as it would be MOST difficult to argue successfully that it was a genuine recovery.
Think I’ve got that right - had a spot of the falling down water…
I shall read the recovery pages in detail, but i do think it might be safer to buy a 3500kg transit for my movements (just stops me moving anything but small cars & vans due to weight.)
Scab — in my view, 3500 kg beaver tails are a waste of time.
Payload unlikely to be more than 1500kg, even with an ali body.
Rear wheel of loaded car will usually sit behind the rear axle, resulting in axle over weight.
Beaver angles are too steep, giving a breakover angle (beaver onto flat) that may result in grounding. Shallow beavers are better (no tittering ), but require longer ramps that are heavier and may need supports.
Don’t take a packed lunch and empty your pockets of change! Put it on a weigh bridge and you’ll see why!
Would be surprised if a ■■■■■■ will out live a 7.5 tonner
If I were in your shoes, I’d weigh up the costs of subbing these “transport” movements out, or look more seriously at the 4x4 & trailer if you want to avoid O’Licencing.
A Disco or Landcruiser (much better) can trail 3500kg, and you have a “personal” car to use for school runs etc! I had a financial shock when the tacho was fitted to mine! Obviously, you’ll need a decent trailer as well — go for a home brew with car wheels/tyres and you’ll end up killing yourself or an innocent.
The 4x4 option also has its drawbacks. Vehicle wear, stability, manoeuvrability, tacho cost/compliance and no lane 3!
A Disco or Landcruiser (much better) can trail 3500kg, and you have a “personal” car to use for school runs etc! I
School runs are pretty unlikely, only got one offspring & he’s the mechanic in our little setup
I do see your points & tend to agree, would much prefer a 4x4 + trailer than a ■■■■■■ piece of junk. Quite fancy a blazer or cherokee
I wonder how hard it would be to get an electronic tacho working in a 4x4 surely only a case of modifying the signal to calibrate it, then have it tested & sealed - bingo ! (I bet it’s NOT that easy is it).
BTW - East Sussex ■■ whereabouts, i lived there as a kid, some ,errrr, well a FEW years ago
if you had a vehicle over 3.5 ton then you would be required to use a tacho and have an o licence when moving cars for your business unless they are disabled and you are recovering them.
merc have some very nice transit sized car transporters that will last a long time by the look of them, i don’t know who builds them but they certainly look very sturdy and like they will give many years trouble free service if looked after.
another alternative is an old aa/rac spec lift transit etc.
if you went for the 7.5 tonner it wouldn’t be too much hassle to get your o licence as you would only require a restricted o licence - no cpc holder required for that.
another alternative is an old aa/rac spec lift transit etc.
i was under the impession these can ONLY be used for local recovery after a main road breakdown, or accident. More a vehicle to move them to safety rather than transport them.
O licence is def too much aggro, just don’t want to go there
.
I wonder how hard it would be to get an electronic tacho working in a 4x4 surely only a case of modifying the signal to calibrate it, then have it tested & sealed - bingo ! (I bet it’s NOT that easy is it).
Quotes I had were around £700+Vat. Had a tow bar fitted at the same time. Bill came in at £1,700 + Vat Got it down to £1,500 + Vat, but can’t say I was too chuffed. They did have problems with the signal.
I tend to use the 4x4 as a backup to the truck. Aslo picked up a nice job trailing an exhibition display accross UK & Europe - once it’s set-up, we have the 4x4 “solo” and basically become tourists!
BTW - East Sussex ■■ whereabouts, i lived there as a kid, some ,errrr, well a FEW years ago
Born & schooled in Crowborough. Now in Heathfield - not for much longer, unless Blair hands out a few asbo’s to the sroats round here!
Hi,
I have just started working for a very large firm, which is owned by one of the biggest banks in the UK. We recover accident damaged vehicles and return them to the owner once repaired. We do the repairs. We also carry courtesy cars to and from the customers. I was told, when I started with the firm that, the companies legal team had looked into it and although it is border line we are ok to be classed as recovery vehicles. We still use tacho’s as a record but we run under domestic regulations, that is until they change them next year to EU regs.
Hi Scab,
I had a recovry truck for a few months and the law as I saw it was “The vehicle being carried must be a genuine break down or accident and cannot belong to you” also to be classed as a recovery vehicle it must carry the breakdown upon its self (ie all wheels must be off the carriage way and totally on the recovery vehicle).
Any variations from this and the truck is not deemed a recovery vehicle and is then subject to the normal regulatoins for carrying goods.
I like the reference to cars and cabbages but most of the crap I carried would most likely be reffered to as “Lemons”
I have just started working for a very large firm, which is owned by one of the biggest banks in the UK. We recover accident damaged vehicles and return them to the owner once repaired. We do the repairs. We also carry courtesy cars to and from the customers. I was told, when I started with the firm that, the companies legal team had looked into it and although it is border line we are ok to be classed as recovery vehicles.
Westie - I’d be very interested to learn more about your legal depts interpretation.
Blimey, it’s a small world Spaceman. I grew up in Mayfield, just a few miles from you
Scroats Isn’t East Sussex still the idyllic little county of olde worlde villaages, or have I got rose tinted specs that look back to the late 60’s
Don’t leave home without your bus fare Wink
Quotes I had were around £700+Vat. Had a tow bar fitted at the same time. Bill came in at £1,700 + Vat Exclamation Got it down to £1,500 + Vat, but can’t say I was too chuffed. They did have problems with the signal.
Quoting £700 & billing £1700 They would have had no trouble with the signals from me Crooks !
scab-in-a-cab:
i have searched the VOSA site & can’t quite find the answer I need, but to work out the answer, you need to know the “problem”.
As you might or might not know, inow run a small garage / workshop with my Son. We are considering buying a transporter of some description to provide vehicle recovery for our own customers, but would also like to use it to collect the “not so clever” vehicles from auctions (cars we have purchased).
As i understand it, RECOVERY vehicles are exempt from O licencing and Tacho, but i just can’t find the exact definition of “recovery”. Would this include for example, us using the vehicle to collect a van from an auction 100 miles away because the van had no mot, or had a broken cambelt etc ?
would it make a difference if WE had bought the van, or if it was a customers ?
our other option which avoids the O’L completely is a 4x4 + Trailer, but then we hit the tachograph problem (cost of installation i guess would be prohibitive, actually using it to abide by the DHR not a problem).
but I wouldn’t think you would convince VOSA that the vehicle had just broken down at the auction
surely only a case of modifying the signal to calibrate it, then have it tested & sealed - bingo ! (I bet it’s NOT that easy is it).
Got it down to £1,500 + Vat, but can’t say I was too chuffed. They did have problems with the signal.
Isn’t East Sussex still the idyllic little county of olde worlde villaages, or have I got rose tinted specs that look back to the late 60’s 