Not looking forward to next week

the maoster:
Just been into Asda in Grantham for some necessary supplies (beer 'n ■■■■) and obviously donned my mask. Being company issue it was cheap and uncomfortable with a hard ridge that dug into my nose. Obviously experimentation with masks will help there. It felt alien at first, but as everyone else is in the same boat it wasn’t too bizarre. I say everybody, but curiously the store staff are not required to wear them!

That boat i would suggest being Titanic in scope.Check out the beacon of sanity,known as Dr Vernon Coleman on yt,although he has his own dedicated channel,for a more illuminated take on this Cabal Psy-op, extravaganza.

Conor:
Where I am the infection rate is 1 in 10,000. Population in my town is 11,000.

There’s 3 petrol stations in the town which are open 16hrs a day

Takes 5 minutes to fuel up. There’s 192 5 minute slots in 16hrs.

The risk factor is therefore 1 in (10,000x3x192)= 5,760,000.

You’ve roughly just one chance in just under six million of being in the same petrol station at the same time as the one person in my town who may have it when you fuel up your car. If you assign a very generous in the favour of the handwringers 50/50 chance to them not wearing a mask and coughing in your direction when you’re close enough then the risk drops to 1 in 11,520,000.

So what’s happening next week for me is simple. I ain’t wearing one. The risk is so ridiculously low that it’s just a pointless comfort blanket exercise, something the government is doing so they can be seen to be doing something and it’s nothing more than pandering to the press. When we should have been having to wear them WAS FOUR TO FIVE MONTHS AGO not now. Now we should be reducing the need to be wearing them, not just starting to do so.

It’s posts like this that remind me why I’m SO happy the important policy decisions in this country are not taken by lorry drivers.

The infection rate is not a measure of the number of people who currently have the virus, it is an indicator of the number of new infections each day. People who get infected typically show symptoms after about 5 days, although the indications are that they themselves become infectious a couple of days before that. They remain infectious for 7-10 days after symptoms develop - i.e. they are infectious for 9-12 days in total. On any given day the number of people who are currently infectious will be those who initially caught the virus between 3 and 15 days ago (roughly 12 in the case of your town, from the figure you quote - call it 11 to keep the numbers simple).

What you have then gone on to do is to calculate the probability of meeting a known, identified individual at the petrol station during your visit. e.g. “I’m off to the petrol station - I wonder what the chances are of my bumping into Mr Snodgrass from 78 Gas Street while I’m there…?” The answer is of course that it’s very unlikely indeed.

But the difference here is that you have no idea who these currently infectious carriers of the virus might be - there are somewhere around eleven of them in your town and no-one knows who they are. The probability of any one random person you come into contact with being one of them is 11 in 11,000 (ie 1 in 1,000), and if there are 5 people (staff and customers) at the filling station during your visit, the probability of at least one of them being in that group is 1 in 200. Which is a whole country mile (and more) away from your 1 in 11 million.

But on your final point I do agree - the face covering stuff should have been done months ago.

manalishi:

the maoster:
Just been into Asda in Grantham for some necessary supplies (beer 'n ■■■■) and obviously donned my mask. Being company issue it was cheap and uncomfortable with a hard ridge that dug into my nose. Obviously experimentation with masks will help there. It felt alien at first, but as everyone else is in the same boat it wasn’t too bizarre. I say everybody, but curiously the store staff are not required to wear them!

That boat i would suggest being Titanic in scope.Check out the beacon of sanity,known as Dr Vernon Coleman on yt,although he has his own dedicated channel,for a more illuminated take on this Cabal Psy-op, extravaganza.

A daily dose of Vernon Coleman is just what those currently assimilated into the Borg could do with, very intelligent man.

Roymondo:
But on your final point I do agree - the face covering stuff should have been done months ago.

You mean about the same time when all the health experts were everywhere telling people wearing masks is not recommended, including WHO? By the way if mask wearing is any good then why is there nothing about it from the NHS - they’re not really actively endorsing it in any way like hand washing and social distancing for example…

ETS:

Roymondo:
But on your final point I do agree - the face covering stuff should have been done months ago.

You mean about the same time when all the health experts were everywhere telling people wearing masks is not recommended, including WHO? By the way if mask wearing is any good then why is there nothing about it from the NHS - they’re not really actively endorsing it in any way like hand washing and social distancing for example…

They offer this specific advice on their own website:

Face coverings
If you can, wear something that covers your nose and mouth in places where it’s hard to stay away from other people.

There are some places where you must wear a face covering, such as:

on public transport
in shops
when you go to hospital appointments or visit someone in hospital

Roymondo:

Face coverings
If you can, wear something that covers your nose and mouth in places where it’s hard to stay away from other people.

There are some places where you must wear a face covering, such as:

on public transport
in shops
when you go to hospital appointments or visit someone in hospital

I hope you will agree that they’re merely passing on the gov’t orders, hence the ‘‘must’’ and not offering their own advice on the subject. I’m not on the conspiracy side either.

It’s worth noting that the advice concerning face masks has been evolving over the past months.
The effectiveness of masks hasn’t changed, but our understanding of it has.
And quite importantly unavailability has changed.in the early months there weren’t enough to supply front line workers, so there may have also been a justified reluctance to advise for their widespread use?
Anyway seems that uses correctly, they should help on preventing onward transmission.
Don’t rush to take the mask off by pulling at the bit over your nose, then grabbing the exit handle, so depositing half an hours worth of concentrated snot on said handle!

Franglais:
It’s worth noting that the advice concerning face masks has been evolving over the past months.
The effectiveness of masks hasn’t changed, but our understanding of it has.
And quite importantly unavailability has changed.in the early months there weren’t enough to supply front line workers, so there may have also been a justified reluctance to advise for their widespread use?
Anyway seems that uses correctly, they should help on preventing onward transmission.
Don’t rush to take the mask off by pulling at the bit over your nose, then grabbing the exit handle, so depositing half an hours worth of concentrated snot on said handle!

Brilliant Dr Franglais,any useful advice regarding the ingestion of carbon-dioxide back into the respiratory areas perchance,as a result of these masks?..or maybe a few pointers on how we avoid eyeball,infection?(an acknowledged vulnerable point)…goggles?..Q the inevitable tracts of,august periodical,regugitations that generally follow in due course.None of us here can claim an over-arching well spring of knowledge to draw upon in matters,biological/neurological etc,we simply must go with intuition,albeit with sage counsellings by people such as Vernon Coleman to provide a more,nuanced appraisal of this monumental black-op the ptb/cabal have launched against us.

manalishi:

Franglais:
It’s worth noting that the advice concerning face masks has been evolving over the past months.
The effectiveness of masks hasn’t changed, but our understanding of it has.
And quite importantly unavailability has changed.in the early months there weren’t enough to supply front line workers, so there may have also been a justified reluctance to advise for their widespread use?
Anyway seems that uses correctly, they should help on preventing onward transmission.
Don’t rush to take the mask off by pulling at the bit over your nose, then grabbing the exit handle, so depositing half an hours worth of concentrated snot on said handle!

Brilliant Dr Franglais,any useful advice regarding the ingestion of carbon-dioxide back into the respiratory areas perchance,as a result of these masks?..or maybe a few pointers on how we avoid eyeball,infection?(an acknowledged vulnerable point)…goggles?..Q the inevitable tracts of,august periodical,regugitations that generally follow in due course.None of us here can claim an over-arching well spring of knowledge to draw upon in matters,biological/neurological etc,we simply must go with intuition,albeit with sage counsellings by people such as Vernon Coleman to provide a more,nuanced appraisal of this monumental black-op the ptb/cabal have launched against us.

The masks may cut down on water droplets, but there is little danger of them cutting air/oxygen ingress or air/CO2 egress.
I havent yet seen heaps of asphyxiated shoppers blocking the aisles of my local Sainsburys. Well. apart from the ones who thought that plastic bags would be suitable raw materials. If one is breathing out infected air it is because one is....infected....there is little chance of catching it via the eyes from ones own breath.

And I do agree that I am no original font of knowledge.
I take counsel from some whose advice seems to correspond with reason.
Intuition? I try to leave that on the back burner, but sadly it does spill over sometimes.

noticed quite a few folk wearing a mask but with hole torn in the centre. Spose that gets you into shops which is all that really matters

Franglais:

Winseer:
There’s no “certainties” here - only “odds”.

At present, any gambler will tell you that there’s more chance of being killed in next friday’s rush hour traffic statistically, than even catching (let alone dying) of Covid…

It is the collateral “sideshow damage” that we all need to avoid, since losing jobs, seeing pay & conditions cut, losing one’s already-paid-for holidays, not being able to get their car MOTed and hence safe, and of course not being able to attend social events" - are already taking their toll on MILLIONS of us, rather than just a handful of people we’ve not even heard of - until after they’ve gone.

Probably not ALL gamblers would say that?
.
.
Only those who are terminally stupid.
Less than 2,000 road deaths in 2019…about 8 a week…about one a day.
Friday 24th 770 new cases lab confirmed. 123 deaths.
.
.
As a gambler, is this why you still drive lorries?

Misreading what I’m getting at here.

I’d say about half of us would take “reasonable risks” about our daily lives - without thinking twice about it.
The other half are the “extremists” who’d live like Howard Hughs at one end, or are recklessly taking chances with anything and everything.

The “Gambler” taking the “measured risk” - is NOT going to do things like Drive at 70 through a residential street, run across the road between parked cars, or go mountain climbing in bad weather.
BUT would still drive a car at say, 35 through a 30 zone, walk out between parked cars, and go mountain climbing/skydiving/any extreme sport as a matter of “Normalcy” - without thinking twice about it.

Does a smoker who goes through a packet a day - have a higher chance of snuffing it from lung cancer than someone who still buys their B&H in '10s??
Comparing the road death rate - is meaningless, because no one sets out that morning with the notion that they won’t be coming home tonight, whereas we professional drivers DO, or at least should - Right?

Our ability as the Great British Public I suggest - fails to deal with day-to-day risk-taking, so that now we are ALL faced with a decision each and every day over Covid, and our individual interpretation of what Church and State tell us…

Do you wear a mask because you believe it will save lives, and is therefore a good thing to do?
Do you wear a mask because you fear being fined when you are already on your knees financially,
Do you wear a mask because you voted for this government, and want to play along…

Do you disobey because you’re an evil person who doesn’t want to save lives?
Do you disobey because you’re “alright jack” financially,
Do you dosobey because you vote labour, and Boris Johnson is “Not My Prime Minister”…?

One person’s wrong-doing - is another person’s virtue signal.
Another person’s virtue - is a third party’s definition of what “Evil” manifests itself as in this day and age.

If someone says “No coming in here without a mask sir” - and hands me a mask, one that cuts into my nose, gets right up my nose, - I will COMPLY because they’ve given me no option BUT to comply.
If someone says "No coming in here without a mask. Here’s one for a quid/Go home and get your mask/Come back when you’ve had a test blah blah etc. - Then I will just turn on my heel, probably never to return.
The alternative place I ended up going to for the same goods and services… Ends up winning my business for an ongoing basis, the original premises having now alienated me, possibly for life.
(The Mrs is even more hard line on this than I am btw)

We have not shopped at Tesco since Easter, for example. Before the lockdown, we probably did 75%+ of ALL our food shopping at Tescos. Go figure!

corij:
noticed quite a few folk wearing a mask ■■■■■■■■ torn in the centre. Spouse that gets you into slops which is all that really matters
[/quote]
couldn’t resist that. :stuck_out_tongue: :blush: :smiley:

manalishi:

Franglais:
It’s worth noting that the advice concerning face masks has been evolving over the past months.
The effectiveness of masks hasn’t changed, but our understanding of it has.
And quite importantly unavailability has changed.in the early months there weren’t enough to supply front line workers, so there may have also been a justified reluctance to advise for their widespread use?
Anyway seems that uses correctly, they should help on preventing onward transmission.
Don’t rush to take the mask off by pulling at the bit over your nose, then grabbing the exit handle, so depositing half an hours worth of concentrated snot on said handle!

Brilliant Dr Franglais,any useful advice regarding the ingestion of carbon-dioxide back into the respiratory areas perchance,as a result of these masks?..or maybe a few pointers on how we avoid eyeball,infection?(an acknowledged vulnerable point)…goggles?..Q the inevitable tracts of,august periodical,regugitations that generally follow in due course.None of us here can claim an over-arching well spring of knowledge to draw upon in matters,biological/neurological etc,we simply must go with intuition,albeit with sage counsellings by people such as Vernon Coleman to provide a more,nuanced appraisal of this monumental black-op the ptb/cabal have launched against us.

sinus infection is a considerable danger, more so than re-breathing CO2 which the body is able to react to, by hyperventilating for instance.
Run the exhaled air through a potash filter though to take the CO2 out, so you’re breaking in air with now depleted Oxygen…
This is dangerous - because you don’t realize the effect it is having on you! Removing the CO2 prevents the body reacting to a higher than normal CO2 concentration - by increasing breathing rate, for example to compensate for the apparent oxygen depletion that is coming…

The suggestion is that if you wear the very BEST of masks - you might actually be walking around not 100% fully in capacity, as if you’d had say, a couple of drinks or smoked a joint…

There are an awful lot of “Snake Oil Salespeople” out there with regards to Covid, and how we humans should be responding to it… It relies on our ignorance in that NO one has all the answers - How could we have?

If in doubt, ignore them all, and use your own common sense.

I see an entire small town between April and July where hardly anyone wore a mask, and walked out and about normally…
Was there later a flare-up?

NOPE.

I don’t think “not wearing a mask” is dangerous therefore. - All those people mingling in parks, going to illegal raves, going to beaches where no toilets are open…
Has there been a flare-up?

NOPE.

Franglais:

wrighty1:
No problem with wearing a mask if required but you are right with regards to deaths being attributed to covid when they are caused by something else. This is the reason the government has ordered an inquiry into Public Health Englands statistics, possibly resulting in the death toll being much lower.

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The figures and methodologies need looking at, true.
But so far this year we have had 65,000 excess deaths, ONS figures. No dispute about that, is there?

Well… Apart from the fact that those figures are extremely unlikely to be accurate, until the end of 2020 it’s impossible to say.
Currently death rates are lower than average But, as has been said, when you say deaths ‘with Covid’ and not ‘as a direct result of Covid’ the rates will appear high. For example, you could say deaths ‘with a broken finger’ but that doesn’t automatically mean the broken finger caused death. Or ‘deaths with a sore throat’. Again the same implication - doesn’t mean that’s what caused death.

I’d say that when the dust finally settles and if a fully independent enquiry is held it will be shown that a huge number of ‘Covid deaths’ were not as a direct result of Covid at all.
It may have accelerated some deaths, but Flu and pneumonia has been doing that for centuries, it isn’t a new phenomenon.

Whether you’ll see governments and the WHO admitting their error if it should prove so to be is another matter.

‘Weapons of mass destruction’ springs to mind.

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All those wearing a mask and gloves.

You do know there is a correct procedure for donning and removal? And you must never ever touch the mask with the gloves on. Nor touch the mask with the gloves off unless first washing you hands for ideally 60 seconds. You must not store the mask in a pocket or bag. It should be kept in a clean air tight container.

How many honestly have done so?

And secondly, if masks and gloves are so effective, how come the biggest spread of Covid has happened in hospitals and care establishments where the quality of PPE is high and the correct procedures are followed regarding application and removal?

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Truckulent:
And secondly, if masks and gloves are so effective, how come the biggest spread of Covid has happened in hospitals and care establishments where the quality of PPE is high and the correct procedures are followed regarding application and removal?

Because…

Hospitals are where people who are serioulsy ill with C19 symptoms went to, to get better.

Therefore, everyone with C19 went to hospital, therefore the chances of cross infection are greatly increased.

The large majority of care homes rely on agency staff who work in two or three (possibly more) different care homes in a week. Again, increasing the spread of C19 within those places.

yourhavingalarf:

Truckulent:
And secondly, if masks and gloves are so effective, how come the biggest spread of Covid has happened in hospitals and care establishments where the quality of PPE is high and the correct procedures are followed regarding application and removal?

Because…

Hospitals are where people who are serioulsy ill with C19 symptoms went to, to get better.

Therefore, everyone with C19 went to hospital, therefore the chances of cross infection are greatly increased.

The large majority of care homes rely on agency staff who work in two or three (possibly more) different care homes in a week. Again, increasing the spread of C19 within those places.

Errrrr. Yes… but…

What you’re actually saying is where there’s Covid, even medical grade masks, gloves and visors aren’t very effective. And yet you can use any old bit of material around your face to visit a shop and that’s protecting people? Yeah, right!!

I’m well aware how it works btw as the wife is a nurse. Oh and most people with Covid recover without hospital or any medical treatment.

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My suggestion is that the reason for wearing masks in public is “political” rather than “Practical”.

Think of how it identifies people apart… Those who’ll routinely wear one, regardless of if it does any good or not, those who won’t wear one, presumably because they don’t believe not wearing one will do anyone any harm, and those who are not present at all, too scared to go out - with or without a mask…
That’s three distinct groups there, - not two.

Truckulent:
And secondly, if masks and gloves are so effective, how come the biggest spread of Covid has happened in hospitals and care establishments where the quality of PPE is high and the correct procedures are followed regarding application and removal?

Was your question…

I’ve answered that.

Whether or not you agree with it, I care not.

yourhavingalarf:

Truckulent:
And secondly, if masks and gloves are so effective, how come the biggest spread of Covid has happened in hospitals and care establishments where the quality of PPE is high and the correct procedures are followed regarding application and removal?

Was your question…

I’ve answered that.

Whether or not you agree with it, I care not.

Maybe a valid question would be
“how effective are using gloves and masks, compared to not using them?”
I wonder how many Doctors and Nurses would volunteer to work on a C19 ward without them, as a control?