Night out or not?

[coffeeholic]

alf apsey:
but what i have read and cant beleive is that you can have 9hr breaks 3times in a row

Given the right shift pattern, i.e. one that runs from Friday - Wednesday then it is possible, and legal, to have six in a row.

alf apsey:
What i was informed is that or tacho is based on a 24hr period so your days work is also based on 24hrs,

It’s not strictly your days work that is based on a 24 hour period, the amount of daily rest you need is calculated on a 24 hour period. This period is not the calender day, 00:00 - 24:00, but begins when you resume work after a daily or weekly rest period, regardless of what time of day that is.

alf apsey:
so mathmatically you cannot do this.

Course you can.

Monday, start work 06:00 and finish 19:00 the take a 9 hour rest which ends at 04:00 Tuesday. This is within the 24 hour period that started at 06:00 Monday and your new 24 hour period now starts.

Tuesday, 04:00 - 19:00 then take another 9 hour rest, which ends at 04:00 Wednesday. Again your rest is within the 24 hour period that started 04:00 Tuesday and you now start another 24 hour period.

Wednesday, 04:00 - 18:00 and another 9 hour rest is taken. This finishes at 03:00 Thursday and you start another 24 hour period.

You’ve taken 3 x 9 hour daily rests in a row and all have been legal as each daily rest fell within the 24 hour periods as defined by the tacho regs…

Thursday start 03:00, but today you must be finished by 16:00 because you have used all your 9’s for the week and the minimum rest is now 11 hours. For you to be able to take an 11 hour rest before the 24 hour period ends at 03:00 Friday, you cannot work past 16:00, even by 1 minute, because that would mean there is less than 11 hours left until 03:00 Friday. If you do work past 16:00, say to 17:00, and then park up for 11 hours until 04:00 Friday this would not count as an 11 hour rest because only 10 of those 11 hours fell within the 24 hour period 03:00 Thursday - 03:00 Friday and an offence would have been committed.

Clear as mud eh? Anyway, I better go because I finished at 20:50 tonight and got home at 21:20. I have to leave again at 05:30 for a 06:00 start and I’ll need to fit my 4 hours of kip in.

[paul_b]

am i right in thinking if a driver follows the above schedule and needs to record a 45 hour weekly rest period, he must be parked up for 4.00pm friday afternoon to start again at 6.00 am the following monday?
or alternatively, if the same driver was in a possition to take a reduced weekly rest that weekend and needed to night out friday he could in theory work while 7.00pm but either way he would then have to take a 17 hour daily rest before he could run back on the saturday morning to compensate for the reduced rest periods taken earlier in the week?

[coffeeholic]

paul b:
am i right in thinking if a driver follows the above schedule and needs to record a 45 hour weekly rest period, he must be parked up for 4.00pm friday afternoon to start again at 6.00 am the following monday?

Would depend on what time he starts on Friday, what time he has to finish by. It would have to be no more than 13 hours after he started though and to fit a 45 hour weekly rest in and start at 06:00 Monday it would have to be no later than 09:00 Saturday. If in the above example he did start at 04:00 Friday then he would need to finish by 17:00, giving him a 61 hour weekly rest period until 06:00 Monday, if he wasn’t working Saturday, and also compensating for the reduced aily rests earlier in the week in one go.

paul b:
or alternatively, if the same driver was in a possition to take a reduced weekly rest that weekend and needed to night out friday he could in theory work while 7.00pm but either way he would then have to take a 17 hour daily rest before he could run back on the saturday morning to compensate for the reduced rest periods taken earlier in the week?

No. If he was working the Saturday he would just need an 11 hour daily rest between the Friday and Saturday shift. The compensation for the reduced rests doesn’t need to be taken until the end of the following week, which ends at 00:00 the following Sunday.

[alf_apsey]

No wonder no one can understand tacho hrs,its because its full of drivers myths.I thought robbies dad would know living in belguim that on this side of the river you have to show all your working for 24hrs,and if you are going to have a lying you changed disc so it just showed your break.

[paul_midway]

I stick to my own rules .
These are as follows .

1. No more than 4h15 driving before a 45 minute break .Or split breaks within this period .
2. No more than a total of 9 hours driving a shift .
3. Daily rest will be a minium 11 hours .
4. Weekly rest will be a minium 45 hours .
5. Keep my WTD hours at around 49-50 hours average until the period is nearly over and then drop them to 48 . This ensures i don’t get crap all the time
6. Spit your dummy out if shift time exceeds 12 hours .

There the law according to me .

[delboy98]

paul@midway:
5. Spit your dummy out if shift time exceeds 12 hours

I used to spit my dummy out if i didnt get a shift exceeding 12 hours

[paul_midway]

I’m salaried

[coffeeholic]

alf apsey:
No wonder no one can understand tacho hrs,its because its full of drivers myths.

It’s not the ‘tacho hours’ that are full of driver’s myths. They are fairly straight forward and just need to be read carefully to understand them. It’s the drivers who have never even read the Tacho Regs that are full of myths, they prefer to operate under the MMTM* Rules. These rules can never be contradicted, even when shown written proof that their version is wrong they still refuse to accept they are wrong and continue to have blind faith in the MMTM Rules.

*MMTM = My Mate Told Me.

alf apsey:
I thought robbies dad would know living in belguim that on this side of the river you have to show all your working for 24hrs,

That’s another myth. While it is true that they like to see the full 24 hour period recorded, and it makes sense to do it just for less hassle at a checkpoint, there is no legal requirement to do so. There is no requirement under the EC Driver’s Hours Rules to do so and if they try to fine you they have no legal basis for doing so. Insisting to speak to the ‘Chef’ when they do try usually results in a swift change of mind.

alf apsey:
and if you are going to have a lying you changed disc so it just showed your break.

That’s what i used to do.

[ralliesport]

Coffeeholic:

alf apsey:
No wonder no one can understand tacho hrs,its because its full of drivers myths.

It’s not the ‘tacho hours’ that are full of driver’s myths. They are fairly straight forward and just need to be read carefully to understand them. It’s the drivers who have never even read the Tacho Regs that are full of myths, they prefer to operate under the MMTM* Rules. These rules can never be contradicted, even when shown written proof that their version is wrong they still refuse to accept they are wrong and continue to have blind faith in the MMTM Rules.

*MMTM = My Mate Told Me.

And thats why we arent considered professional.

[coffeeholic]

I just want to clarify something here. Earlier in this thread I replied to Alf Aspey when he said.

alf apsey:
but what i have read and cant beleive is that you can have 9hr breaks 3times in a row

I replied.

Coffeeholic:
Given the right shift pattern, i.e. one that runs from Friday - Wednesday then it is possible, and legal, to have six in a row.

As a result of this post, earlier today I received an email saying I was mis-informing people of the driver’s hours regs. The sender stated that

"if you start work on a Friday, and finish on a Wednesday, then your “week” is Friday to Wednesday, and you can only reduce to a 9 hour rest period 3 times in a “week”.
Its not 00.00 Monday to 23.59 Sunday, its when your first card goes in, defines as the beginning of your week."

This is totally wrong. The week is fixed under the tacho rules as being 00:00 Monday - 24:00 Sunday and it is in this period you can have 3 reduced daily rests and two 10 hour driving days.

In THIS PDF file: EC Drivers’ Hours And Tachograph Rules For Goods Vehicles FAQ, available from the VOSA site, you will find on page 11, FAQ 23 and 24, that this question is asked and answered.

These are the questions and answers as it appears in that booklet.

FAQ.23) Can I reduce my rest and work 15 hour spreadovers (duty) on 3 consecutive days?

Yes. There is no stipulation in the EC rules on when in the week the daily rest may be reduced - except that it may not be done more than 3 times in a fixed week (00.00hrs on Mon - 24.00hrs on Sun).

FAQ.24) How many reduced daily rest periods can I take during my working week, which normally starts on a Friday and finishes the following Wednesday?

Under the EC rules, a week is defined as being 00.00hrs on Monday to 24.00hrs on Sunday. In the DfT’s view, a working week which straddles two weeks, as with the above scenario, would effectively allow for up to 6 reduced daily rests within that particular week. However, this would not be possible in the following 6 day period (Fri-Wed), as the rules limit the number of reduced rests to 3 times in a fixed week, as defined above.

Anyone who is calculating their week from when they put their first chart in after a weekly rest period is running the risk of taking too many reduced daily rests in a week, or too many increased driving days. taking a weekly rest does not re-set the number of reduced daily rests or 10 hour driving days available too you, that only happens at 00:00 each Monday.

I just thought I would mention this as the email I received made me wonder if others were working under the false impression that their week runs from when they resume after a weekly rest period.