Firstly, I dare say this is one of those posts that probably crops up from time to time, so may I apologise to those of you that may have read / replied to similar posts before, but…
Last week one of our drivers ran out of driving hours and was stranded down on Strensham MSA, ( our yard is in Halesowen Junc 3 M5 ). He did not, however, exceed his 15hr spread.
We run a fleet of mainly rigid vehicles, fitted with day-cabs, and as nights out are not part of the job description, another driver was duely dispatched in the company Vauxhall Zafira to fetch him back, or at least swap vehicles with him, enabling him to drive back to the yard.
Now I know there are issues with the driver simply not returning when he knew he was going to be running tight on hours, ( a seperate issue, I think ) but the point is, this time he DID run out, and then had to drive a company vehicle in order to get back.
Is this OK ?
Personally, I think that because the 2nd vehicle was not fitted with a Tacho, then as long as the driver’s shift didn’t exceed 15hrs no offence was committed. He thinks otherwise, and that a third driver should also have been sent to drive the Zafira back with himself as passenger.
The drive back is classed as Other Work under the tacho rules and as he had working time still available to him it is legal. If he had done 15 hours he could not have driven back, or been driven back by someone else.
Coffeeholic:
The drive back is classed as Other Work under the tacho rules and as he had working time still available to him it is legal. If he had done 15 hours he could not have driven back, or been driven back by someone else.
Coffee, If he had been at 15 hours and a company car was brought to him and he used that car to go straight home, would that be legal?
ROG:
Coffee, If he had been at 15 hours and a company car was brought to him and he used that car to go straight home, would that be legal?
No, because travelling to or from your home to somewhere which is not your employers operating centre is not regarded as Rest, it’s Other Work. Having done 15 hours the driver would not have any time left to perform this other work.
ROG:
Coffee, If he had been at 15 hours and a company car was brought to him and he used that car to go straight home, would that be legal?
No, because travelling to or from your home to somewhere which is not your employers operating centre is not regarded as Rest, it’s Other Work. Having done 15 hours the driver would not have any time left to perform this other work.
Coffeeholic:
The drive back is classed as Other Work under the tacho rules and as he had working time still available to him it is legal. If he had done 15 hours he could not have driven back, or been driven back by someone else.
What could he have done then?? I’m not having a go at you Coffee, I know you’re just quoting rules as you understand them, but surely being driven back by somebody else is more legal than taking your rest in a day cab??
I think if you do a search on Google for Skills Coaches you will find an answer to this
If he has a day cab then the company will have to put him up in a Travelodge or Days hotel on the motorway.
Im uncertain of this but if the relief driver had driven your mates car out to him that may have been ok, but then he is probably going to get done for no insurance instead
I am fairly certain that the problem arrises because you said it was a company Zafira
Patches:
What could he have done then?? I’m not having a go at you Coffee, I know you’re just quoting rules as you understand them, but surely being driven back by somebody else is more legal than taking your rest in a day cab??
You would think so but daft as it may be both are illegal. I guess there are a couple of options. If possible start heading back earlier when he realises he is going to struggle for hours, I’m guessing day cabs don’t usually stray that far from base. The other option would be to book into a hotel, B&B or truck stop…
Those would be the options that comply with the regulations, mind you I think we all know what the option would be in the real world and it isn’t one of those two.
Wheel Nut:
Im uncertain of this but if the relief driver had driven your mates car out to him that may have been ok,
He would still be travelling home from somewhere that wasn’t his employers operating centre and that is the important bit. Who owns the vehicle doesn’t seem to come into it, its the from and to that counts. If you were sent somewhere in your own car to take over a vehicle that would not count as rest and the reverse also applies.
It’s a crazy situation because as far as I can tell he could book off at the point he runs out of hours and start his rest period and then use public transport to get home, or even take a taxi. The rest is his free time to dispose of how he wishes and if he chooses to ride on public transport I can’t see anything in the rules to stop him. I don’t think this has ever been thought through properly, despite the Skills Coaches ruling.
As I said, real world we all know what is going to happen, and I know what I’d be doing.
Coffeeholic:
The drive back is classed as Other Work under the tacho rules and as he had working time still available to him it is legal. If he had done 15 hours he could not have driven back, or been driven back by someone else.
Coffee, If he had been at 15 hours and a company car was brought to him and he used that car to go straight home, would that be legal?
If he was paid for it then yes it would be illegal. Their is case law on the subject. If his shift and pay ends when his 15 hours is up and chooses of his own free will to wait and drive a car home for no pay then he is fine.
Edit !! Just read again what Neil quoted !! Thats right too!!!
Quotes from REGULATION (EC) No 561/2006 article 9.
Any time spent travelling to a location to take charge of a
vehicle falling within the scope of this Regulation, or to return
from that location, when the vehicle is neither at the driver’s
home nor at the employer’s operational centre where the
driver is normally based, shall not be counted as a rest or
break unless the driver is on a ferry or train and has access to a
bunk or couchette.
Any time spent by a driver driving a vehicle which falls
outside the scope of this Regulation to or from a vehicle
which falls within the scope of this Regulation, which is not at
the driver’s home or at the employer’s operational centre
where the driver is normally based, shall count as other work.
No mention of who the transport belongs to or weather or not the driver is being paid, It’s regarded as other work so If he/she has run out of working hours then it’s ilegal.
I can definitely confirm that Coffeeholic is correct as I have spoken to a Traffic examiner at VOSA today and it stems from the Skills coaches ruling by the EU.
in answer to the question referred to it by the Nottingham Magistrates’ Court by order of 30 June 1999, hereby rules:
On a proper construction of Article 15 of Council Regulation (EEC) No 3821/85 of 20 December 1985 on recording equipment in road transport, a driver’s obligation to record all other periods of work extends to:
time which a driver necessarily spends travelling to take over a vehicle subject to the obligation to instal and use a tachograph and which is not at the driver’s home or the employer’s operational centre, regardless of whether the employer gave instructions as to when and how to travel or whether that choice was left to the driver;
periods of driving spent by a driver whilst performing a transport service falling outside the scope of Regulation No 3821/85 before taking over a vehicle to which that regulation applies.
La Pergola Wathelet Edward
Jann Sevón
Delivered in open court in Luxembourg on 18 January 2001.
Was this subject tightend up following a fatal coach crash as well?
I don’t remember the full details but it had something to do with a driver who drove a company car from Newcastle (?) to dover then started his duty after coming off the ferry at Calais.
From what I remember, he fell asleep at the wheel and the coach crashed
this would have been around 2000
I was on for Wallace Arnold at the time and it had implications for us as they gave us the use of a minibus (there were 3 drivers from this part of Cornwall) to get to and from the depot at Torquay, thus saving us the cost of petrol
