Hi everyone, driver runs out of driving time and is picked up by a manager from work. Driver then drives car back to work whilst manager drives back the truck, Driver then has a night out in the yard back in his own truck 
I dont actually know wether or not the said driver actually ran out of driving or duty time but what I do know is this kind of thing is happening a lot, and I MEAN A LOT !!!. Sorry for comeing on here and constantly asking these types of questions but its only become a problem since we were taken over by a right muppet outfit. All I am after is covering my owwn arse so that if I am asked to do it I can say yep, come and fetch the trailer but I am having the night out in my unit 
Cheers.
If itās a company car, itās classed as work.
So if youāre out of duty time you shouldnāt really do it.
BUTā¦ whoās going to say anything? How can they prove anything?
Nights out at your yard is ok as long as you have the required breaks.
Not sure about insurance thoughā¦
It is NOT legal, What should happen is that the car has 2 people in it, one to take over the truck and the other to drive the out of hours driver back. Would not take a genius looking at the tachoās to find out what is happening. If it was me I would refuse, and have done so, but it does not win you any friends!!!
smcaul:
What should happen is that the car has 2 people in it, one to take over the truck and the other to drive the out of hours driver back.
Iām not even sure that would be considered legal. Look at the Skillās coaches case. Alright, it was at the other end of the day when they were using a company vehicle to travel out to vehicles, but the same principle still applies. I did post something on this subject about three years ago on the old forums, speculating that if you were collected by another driver in a non-company vehicle, and driven directly to your home, with that driver claiming a mileage allowance under āCar Sharingā rules, then it could be legal. I.e. Itās never been tested.
Basic rules. If you are out of hours on EC Regs Driving hours - then you can still do other work, which could include driving a non Tacho vehicle.
If you are out of hours on the Working Day, then you cannot do other work.
but it does not win you any friends!!!
That bit Iād agree with. 
I know of one firm who, having previously been āstungā through the Courts, have a policy that once you are Out of Hours, you STOP. Even if it is within 20 or 30 minutes of base. Drop the trailer and it gets collected.
One evening, after a short day, and following a closure of the M5, I overheard the conversation that a number of drivers were unlikely to get back, and so I went out solo and stopped beyond the blockage, and simply waited for the first phone call. I met the driver, picked him up, (Private Use), took him to a chippie, called at a 24/7 petrol station. Made sure he was provisioned for the night, and then returned with his trailer.
This really is a crazy situation, if your out of duty time and bring out a company car for you to drive back its illegal as your still on company business, but if they bring your own car and you drive it home thats OK!! Something very stupid about the regs hereā¦
And another one, I run out of hours at base but decide to take the truck home, I can put in another card and call it āprivate useā to go home and its OK, might be another 8 hours driving but its still OK and my rest started when I left base in the truck!! So one hour more rest (8+1=9) and I can start againā¦
you put another chart in and drive the truck home and call it private use
not heard of that one before.
we had a debate on this getting ferried home job a few months ago and many said it was illegal but for me if itās not recorded on a chart, as far the ministry goes, it didnāt happen i.e the driver drove the car back to base off tacho, the ministry will take no interest in who happens to own that car what so ever or more to the point what area office would seek to prosecute a firm for getting an out of hours driver and their wagon back to base?
of coarse in reality what many will do is stop when out of driving time and put another chart in, in someone elses name as if that person has come down and took over the driving and then run back to base, once back to the yard and charts logged it would be very difficult for anyone to prove at a later date that driver 2 didnāt actually drive the truck.
This scenario will only ever be prover when someone has done a 15/16 hour shift then drives the bosses car home and kills someone on the way only then will the lawyers rip it apart and prvoe it one way or the otherā¦
the private use loop hole was closed some time ago im reliably informed
the private use loop hole was closed some time ago im reliably informed
In an interview a few years ago with the then Vehicle Inspectorate, (Now VOSA)
over a few minor tacho infringements, when asked to account for private use I explained it was my habit to find safe parking, drop trailer and remove chart, put a āClean Chart inā marked private use and run into the nearest town for the chippie etc.
In their view it was not permitted as the use was over hours and in a company vehicle. when due a daily rest break, driving any company vehicle is classed as work.
They did understand the difficulties in taking abnormal loads off route and into town while still within my hours, and were sympathetic, but as they said, the regulations are there for all to obey.
Martin:
And another one, I run out of hours at base but decide to take the truck home, I can put in another card and call it āprivate useā to go home and its OK, might be another 8 hours driving but its still OK and my rest started when I left base in the truck!! So one hour more rest (8+1=9) and I can start againā¦
Ahem Ahem Ahem 
Unless your home is a registered operating centre you cannot legally park at home, there are also possible local by laws to consider.
Davey Driver:
[Ahem Ahem Ahem
Of course you can, provided there is suitable space and itās not a regular occurrence. Otherwise how do you park up when away from base? Remember many driversā homes are well away from base.
Rikki, what you have to do, officially, is phone a taxi or use public transport.
Paul, swopping charts is a heinous crime and would probably send such a driver to gaol. Bit of a chance of not being stopped en route and also, you would have to explain starting at a different point in the morning.
Salut, David.
Think youāll find VOSA will not agree with you 
Davey Driver:
Think youāll find VOSA will not agree with you
thats correct VOSA will not see it like that, company i worked for got took to a public enquiry because a member of the public complained about a truck being in their street overnight and at weekends, on investigation they held the company liable and the driver lost his job, as stated above by someone else, unless the home address is a registered operating centre, the truck cannot park there legally.
The outcome of the public enquiry was that the company had its operating licence reduced in numbers for a period of 2 weeks
With regard to parking the expression used when talking about the O licence is ānormally keptā ie the vehicle does not have to be parked at the operating centre every night just for the majority of the time. In the case mentioned by tc trans the truck is spending most if not all of itās time parked away from the operating centre therefore it is a breach of the O licence. As has been said if you had to park at the operating centre every night it would be impossible to do a night out.
Thanks to everyone who has replied. Why does there have to be so many grey areas with this job I think what I might do is drop the trailer and let them come and collect it whilst I still have the night out. At the end of the day. all I want to do is cover my own ā ā ā ā
Nothing is illegal until either
Aā¦ You want it to be, IE sorry boss cant do that its illegal
or
Bā¦ You get caught
simon
spardo, im not condoning the act, just merely stating it does happen, of coarse if the driver happened to get a pull or was involved in an accident before getting back to base heād be for the high jump!
as for parking at your oācenter, itās perfectly legal to never park there, infact many wagons, especially those that are driven by more than one driver will very rarely see the yard at night. the problems arrise if it can be shown that the driver had enough hours left to return to the yard but chose to park someone where else, i.e their next pickup point that might be ten mile down the road.
parking at home isnāt necessarily ilegal, in theory your operating center could be two hundred mile away from your home address so if youāve got suitable parking on land you own or have the permission to use then your braking no more rules than if you parked in an msa.
if you collect or leave a vehicle from anywhere other than its operating centre and drive to/from home, that time is included in your driving time, irrespective of who owns the vehicle that you use.
paul
paul b:
spardo, im not condoning the act, just merely stating it does happen, of coarse if the driver happened to get a pull or was involved in an accident before getting back to base heād be for the high jump!Fully understood that Paul, which is why I edited my original reply from āā¦would probably send you to gaolā to āā¦would probably send such a driver to gaol.ā
as for parking at your oācenter, itās perfectly legal to never park there, infact many wagons, especially those that are driven by more than one driver will very rarely see the yard at night. the problems arrise if it can be shown that the driver had enough hours left to return to the yard but chose to park someone where else, i.e their next pickup point that might be ten mile down the road.
parking at home isnāt necessarily ilegal, in theory your operating center could be two hundred mile away from your home address so if youāve got suitable parking on land you own or have the permission to use then your braking no more rules than if you parked in an msa.
I agree, and the case which TC cites, where a specific complaint was made of permanent unauthorised parking, is quite different.
Salut, David.
First of all if you read what Rikki wroteā¦that is correctā¦so it is illegalā¦
As for saying you never have to park at you operating centreā¦dont talk crapā¦
on your O licence application.vosa want to know 1. where it is 2.how many vehicles are to be parked there. the operating centre for which you have applied for must have the amount of spaces to parkā¦as specified on the application formā¦so if you licence says 10 vehiclesā¦then you have to have 10 spaces for which to park the vehiclesā¦
as for running Private there is no such thingā¦in a tractor unit that has a 5th wheel adapted to draw a trailer. When your hours are upā¦you gotta parkā¦if your in the middle of nowhereā¦tough luckā¦there is no running to the chippie etcā¦what the law does however allowā¦is for a driver to move his vehicle to a safe placeā¦but this should always be written on the back of the tacho.