Network HGV, can anyone help?

NEW AND WANNABE DRIVERS (INTERACTIVE)
41

If anyone puts in HGV LGV Training in a search engine, and avoids the sponsored links, the “good” information is there to be gleaned.

Absolutely. But, sadly, the customer’s eye is drawn to the Sponsored Links which is why the brokers (and some reputable trainers) spend their budget on them.

I still maintain it could all be sorted by a simple list of trainers issued by DVLA with the provisional. To me it’s a no-brainer!

It’s a pity that the welcome to the industry is by being mugged at the first hurdle in some cases. I can’t begin to think how that must feel.

Good luck all, Pete :laughing: :laughing:

42

Chas:
Fools & their money are soon parted.

There’s very little we can do to help them, if we sort this mess out for them they only go & get themselve’s into another one.

99mustang:
So my wife and I are fools now are we? Thanks very much for your sweeping analysis of our inteligence and personality.

These brokers are acting legally so its not as if anyone is being ‘had’ in that sense

Morally, well that’s another issue
If you choose to have an estate agent for a house purchase/sale then you KNOW they are acting as a ‘middleman’ but these LGV training brokers do not make that statement so the potential trainee is left totally in the dark

43

ROG:
These brokers are acting legally so its not as if anyone is being ‘had’ in that sense

Morally, well that’s another issue
If you choose to have an estate agent for a house purchase/sale then you KNOW they are acting as a ‘middleman’ but these LGV training brokers do not make that statement so the potential trainee is left totally in the dark

Sorry Rog, but you are totaly & horribly wrong about the estate agents. Estate agents have several legal precedents that compell them to act for their client, their client is clearly the seller.

You are also possibly, very horribly mistaken about the legal position of a broker in the business of LGV training. Can you explain how exactly these brokers are acting “legally” in such a way that 99mustang hasn’t been defrauded?

44

i would seek legal advice. did you get any kind of reciept from these people?

45

Chas:
Can you explain how exactly these brokers are acting “legally” in such a way that 99mustang hasn’t been defrauded?

Being defrauded by any company is illegal

To pay for something and not get it is also illegal as it is a breach of contract

Some companies are legally clever such as - we will get you your LGV training … but without a time limit stated …

46

yorkie21:
i would seek legal advice. did you get any kind of reciept from these people?

We have a receipt, and desite being given an assurance from Andy Jacobs at Network HGV that he would sort it all out and issue a refund, we have heard nothing since.

So tomorrow “Monday” the second and final letter before legal action will be winging it’s way to them. Next step small claims court.

I am going to contact my MP as well to see how I would go about starting a campaign to make all brokers, trainers et al be registered with the DSA. As one of this forums members so rightly said, it’s a no brainer really. I also want want my MP to look into why it is so easy for a person as a company director to close and liquidate a company one day with huge debts, only to open another the next day and do the same again. I know this goes on a lot and has done for years. It’s time the law was changed.

Fortunately my wife and I won’t just lie down on this. Theses fraudsters have a fight on their hands.

Thanks to all who have made a “positive” contribution to this thread, cheers.

John.

47

I would be turning up at the offices for sure …

Good luck mate, hope they get what they deserve …

48

I’d be turning up at his house to let him know I wasn’t going away I think he would act a bit quick knowing that you know where he lives

49

I was going to be doing the exact same as you 99mustang but fortunately for me in the end they did deliver.

Please keep us posted cos we will do our best to help you out.

50

I wish you the best of luck getting your training done or money back.

IMHO do a CCJ (county court judgement) against them straight away. No delaying. That normally seems to get some of these brokers into action.

The way some brokers carry on is abysmal. People who are seeking HGV training are (in the most) part embarking on a new career and trying to better themselves.

How can it be in a time of austerity, high prices and high unemployment people are ripped of at the 1st port of call entering the industry.

The brokers have been getting away with it for far too long. Do not worry though. People are finally listening.

hgvlgv training

51

hgvlgvtraining:
IMHO do a CCJ (county court judgement) against them straight away. No delaying. That normally seems to get some of these brokers into action.

hgvlgv training

i agree but make sure you name the company director/owner in the ccj aswell. that way even if the company disappears you can still go after the named people for your money. also dont forget to add the costs of the claim to your total claim amount, plus as soon as you make a claim/start to sue them you can add statuatary interest(sp) to it which is i believe 8%
good luck and hopefully it you will get the result you want.

52

My wife had a call from Andy Jacobs at Network HGV today, he said that he had posted a letter to us last Friday and that he is sorting out a refund. My missus told that the second and final letter was in the post this morning. They have 14 days in which to sort or I will commence legal proceedings and sue for costs as well.

The trouble with Limited companies is the very fact of them being Limited. From what I know, if a LTD company goes under, you can not persue the directors for monies owed. If there are any of you out there who know better on this score, i’d be very happy to hear it.

John.

53

The trouble with Limited companies is the very fact of them being Limited. From what I know, if a LTD company goes under, you can not persue the directors for monies owed. If there are any of you out there who know better on this score, i’d be very happy to hear it.

I fully understand the pressure you are under with this scenario - but is there any evidence that Network are about to go under? Don’t panic for no real reason is what I’m saying.

I’m not an expert on the law regarding limited companies going under, but I believe you cannot persue the directors unless there is a fraud. Although you will obviously see it as fraud, and it may be, you would have to prove it. It is illegal for a company to trade when insolvent so if, for instance, they took your money to pay some of the arrears on their rent in the knowledge they couldn’t fund your training, that is trading whilst insolvent.

But I repeat, is there any actual evidence of them going under? Not sticking up for them, merely trying to cool the stress that you are clearly enduring through no fault of your own. Wait and see if the refund comes before loosing any more sleep. Before I get sued, I’m not suggesting that Network are in arrears with their rent - only using that as an example.

I sincerely hope you get a sensible outcome. Pete :laughing: :laughing:

54

:smiling_imp: This sort of con really does stink. The answer is research. Look for positive feedback and the absence of ludicrous claims such as potential 50k pa earnings. I booked over the phone with Peter Smythe’s company because of their deserved reputation in the industry and lots of research. I also agree with Peter that ultimately the only way to stop this sordid scam is regulation. Good luck mate. I hope you get your brass back.

55

Chas:
Fools & their money are soon parted.

Hi Chas,
Whilst that’s generally true, I can’t see anything in the OP to suggest that they’re “fools.”
IMHO, the very worst that could be said is that it was probably unwise for the OP to have taken a website at face value and then paid for such an expensive item without first doing a little checking.

Some of the broker websites do look very professional and eye-catching, so how would anybody with no connection to our industry be expected to know what, if any, regulation is in place?
IMHO, it’s fair to say that the average person would expect there to be something in the way of professional standards or rules for accession to the occupation of LGV driver training, but the surprising thing is that there isn’t. IMHO, this makes the very last of your points even more valid.

Chas:
There’s very little we can do to help them, if we sort this mess out for them they only go & get themselve’s into another one.

I’d agree that such people do exist, but come off it mate, that comment is way OTT unless you know the people involved. There’s even less evidence to suggest that the OP falls into this bracket.

Chas:
I feel anger that these scum can get away with it, my anger is not directed at the scum itself, but at the scum who allow it to happen. You’d think that the bureaucrats & politicians we pay to sort out this kind of nonsense on our behalf would learn to earn their keep ?

Now I completely agree with you here, cos there’s ample evidence to suggest that regulation IS needed, and that regulation is very, very overdue.

56

dieseldave:
Whilst that’s generally true, I can’t see anything in the OP to suggest that they’re “fools.”
IMHO, the very worst that could be said is that it was probably unwise for the OP to have taken a website at face value and then paid for such an expensive item without first doing a little checking.

Look up the Oxford Dictionary definition of Fool, I’m quite sure it applies in this case.

dieseldave:
Some of the broker websites do look very professional and eye-catching, so how would anybody with no connection to our industry be expected to know what, if any, regulation is in place?
IMHO, it’s fair to say that the average person would expect there to be something in the way of professional standards or rules for accession to the occupation of LGV driver training, but the surprising thing is that there isn’t. IMHO, this makes the very last of your points even more valid.

I bought a £3.5k engineering lathe a few years ago & it was a bargain. Despite me knowing absolutely zilch about lathes pre-purchase I did my homework, did lots of research & gathered lots of information & advice from people who’s opinions could be trusted & respected. It could so easily have all gone pear shaped 'cos there’s a lot of people out there selling engineering lathes which are little more than scrap metal.

I’m no fool.

Chas:
There’s very little we can do to help them, if we sort this mess out for them they only go & get themselve’s into another one.

dieseldave:
I’d agree that such people do exist, but come off it mate, that comment is way OTT unless you know the people involved. There’s even less evidence to suggest that the OP falls into this bracket.

OTT yes & probably without any foundation as far as mustang & his missus are concerned, but IME fools & their money are soon parted & there’s very little we can do to help them, if we sort this mess out for them they only go & get themselve’s into another one.

Chas:
I feel anger that these scum can get away with it, my anger is not directed at the scum itself, but at the scum who allow it to happen. You’d think that the bureaucrats & politicians we pay to sort out this kind of nonsense on our behalf would learn to earn their keep ?

dieseldave:
Now I completely agree with you here, cos there’s ample evidence to suggest that regulation IS needed, and that regulation is very, very overdue.

I have a very well developed ability at getting to the root cause of problems in order to be able to solve them. All the regulations needed to stop this kind of thing are all in place. What we need is for those whose job it is to enforce & police those regulations, to get up off their backsides & go do the job that we pay them to do.

57

All the regulations needed to stop this kind of thing are all in place

I know what you mean in as far that dishonest trading is clearly against the law of the land. But I have to make it clear that the LGV training industry has absolutely no compulsory regulation. It is fact that any LGV licence holder can, having held the licence for 3 years, go out and buy a rusty old truck for £2k or thereabouts. Stick L plates on it and, abracadabra, you’re a driving instructor running a LGV school. And, to get work, undercut any other established trainers in the area. Typically go out of business when the truck breaks down or when the cost of proper insurance is pointed out.

There is a voluntary register for LGV driving instructors. Better than that, there is voluntary accreditation for the training centre. All the information is available from the Driving Standards Agency.

This is the ONLY regulation this industry has and so is the only impartial information available to the potential LGV driver.

Some will say there is little or no value in any of the above. Check out our results and it may show differently.

To the innocent wannabee who, having read many different threads about fraud on this forum, is wondering what to do - I can’t help you any further.

I must and will point out that there are some good trainers out there who, for whatever reason, are not on any register. The problem is in finding them and sorting them out from the “rest”.

Good luck to everyone training and taking tests this week, Pete :laughing: :laughing:

58

I agree with Peter on some of his points but to be fair there is more regulation than you might think

Peter Smythe:
But I have to make it clear that the LGV training industry has absolutely no compulsory regulation. It is fact that any LGV licence holder can, having held the licence for 3 years, go out and buy a rusty old truck for £2k or thereabouts.

Not quite true. There is a minimum standard for vehicles that can be used for taking a test. This was updated considerably in 2007 and I doubt you could find one for anything like £2k. The London area based trainers have an even bigger problem with the London LEZ meaning that soon only Euro 4 engine trucks will be permitted on many test routes.

At the test centre the vehicles are regularly scrutinised by the examiners for any faults and defects. There will not be many trainers that have not had a test cancelled for some minor defect on the truck at some time. Be honest Peter has it never happened to you?

I agree there is no compulsory standard for trainers. However to pass the DSA voluntary exams a driver must be able to do 3 things. 1.Pass a theory test (for which the DSA sends every question and answer to the candidate prior to him taking the test in the application pack) 2.Pass the same test the candidate has to (except he is only permitted 6 minor faults, not 15. Bear in mind he has already passed the test previously anyway) 3.Correct the examiner’s driving for an hour. The examiner chooses from a list of 9 pre-set excercises). This is the trickiest bit but after a few hours training is very passable. Many experienced trainers don’t bother with the register because it is expensive and needs repeating every 4 years.

In any event this is not the type of regulation that would prevent what happened to the OP. It was nothing to do with the actual training provider. It was who actually sold the package. Many industries use a type of broker/agent arrangement where the service is provided by a totally different company.

Every year travel agents go bust. Estate agents have an awful reputation. Insurance brokers cannot always be trusted to name but a few.

The simple answer is one that is repeated day after day on this site. Go and visit the training company before you book. Things can still go wrong after that but a lot less often.

Good luck with sorting the problem out

Regards

John
Flair Training

59

Seen this & though it was apt

uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/How-sp … 47940.html

60

Not quite true. There is a minimum standard for vehicles that can be used for taking a test. This was updated considerably in 2007 and I doubt you could find one for anything like £2k.

Yes there are some criteria for vehicles to be used for test but these are very simple. And such vehicles can be sourced from as little as £2k. They’re no good - but that was my point.

At the test centre the vehicles are regularly scrutinised by the examiners for any faults and defects. There will not be many trainers that have not had a test cancelled for some minor defect on the truck at some time. Be honest Peter has it never happened to you?

Yes it has. Granted it was years ago - but it’s happened. My point wasn’t just in regard to roadworthiness. I’m talking about gearchanges that don’t work properly, indicators that have to be held on, seats that don’t adjust correctly, mirrors that shake uncontrollably - the list goes on and on.

However to pass the DSA voluntary exams a driver must be able to do 3 things. 1.Pass a theory test (for which the DSA sends every question and answer to the candidate prior to him taking the test in the application pack) 2.Pass the same test the candidate has to (except he is only permitted 6 minor faults, not 15. Bear in mind he has already passed the test previously anyway) 3.Correct the examiner’s driving for an hour. The examiner chooses from a list of 9 pre-set excercises). This is the trickiest bit but after a few hours training is very passable.

DSA do not send the questions and answers. The test is computer generated in a similar manner to the “normal” test but also includes questions on instructional technique and paperwork. The minor faults on the driving test go down very quickly - faults that would not be marked for a novice will be marked for a wannabee instructor. Part 3 is, as you say, the trickiest bit. But there’s more to it than correcting the drive. It’s about attitude, knowledge and instructional ability. No-one will ever pass relying on just correcting the drive.

Many experienced trainers don’t bother with the register because it is expensive and needs repeating every 4 years.

And many experienced trainers have proved themselves incapable of passing. So it can’t be that easy, can it? The cost is irrelevant - if trainers wish to be considered professional and have some proof of that, it’s a small price to pay.