National Vocational Driving Instructor Register

NEW AND WANNABE DRIVERS (INTERACTIVE)
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DVSA introduced a voluntary register for LGV Instructors nearly 20 years ago. They have stated that they are no longer able to run the register as they don’t have the resources. So they have asked industry to take on this responsibility. The DVSA register ceases to exist from 31st Dec this year.

So National Vocational Driving Instructor Register has been launched today and, although clearly in it’s infancy, is already gaining support from instructors and training centres who wish to have their levels of professionalism recognised.

For instructors, you can transfer your current DVSA registration completely free of charge to the new register. There are no registration fees and never will be. If you’re not currently on the DVSA register, why not consider going through the process to join the register? Your details will appear on www.lgvregister.org.uk

For those running schools, you can gain registration as a training centre by undergoing an audit by an independent auditor. The cost has been slashed by 50% in comparison to DVSA fees. You will benefit from exposure on the website which will carry a link to your training centre. Happy to answer questions on criteria, costs etc either on this thread or by pm.

For folks considering training, you have a degree of quality assurance by using an instructor/training centre appearing on the register. I hasten to add that there are perfectly good instructors who are not on any register. But it can be tricky sorting out the good from the not so good.

This forum currently has 3 sponsors, 2 of whom have supported this new register for the 18 months that it’s taken to get this far.

The idea of the forum being sponsored by a group of trainers working together has been voiced more than once. I see this as a move in the right direction and I ask everyone to support it.

Pete :laughing: :laughing:

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What are all the associated costs with going through the process to get on the register?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Is this in ANY way endorsed the the DVSA?
The website doesn’t seem to suggest so.

4

No HPT :question:

Become an LGV Instructor

How To Qualify

Apply to an RTC of your choice. RTCs are listed here.
You’ll get a reference number from the Registered Training Centre, which you can use to start qualifying as an LGV instructor.
Sit and pass a theory test consisting of a multiple choice exam consisting of 100 questions with a pass mark of 85 correct answers (85%) with a minimum mark of 80% in each of the main four areas.
Take and pass a driving test and a test of instructional ability.
You have up to three attempts to pass each test. You must wait a year before you can start the qualifying process again if you fail any of the tests on the third attempt. You’ll have to retake all of the tests if you don’t pass all three within a year of your first attempt at the theory test.

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What are all the associated costs with going through the process to get on the register?

Without any training, the costs are IRO £320 which includes theory test, hp test, driving test, test of instructional ability. There is no registration fee and the ongoing cost is the test of instructional ability OR an observed live lesson every 5 years.

Hope this helps, Pete :laughing: :laughing:

6

Is this in ANY way endorsed the the DVSA?

Currently, no. But the framework has been developed in continual discussion and consultation with DVSA with a view to their endorsement. Proposals have been going backwards and forwards for many months as each of their issues have been addressed. We are now at the final (I hope) hurdle having responded to their last comments and there is a quiet expectation of endorsement.

DVSA approached their existing accredited schools and asked them to bring forward a proposal to run a register during 2015. So it’s taken a long time, many meetings etc to get this far. The register has gone live before endorsement simply to avoid a state of limbo when their register disappears at the end of December.

I’m really pleased you noticed there was no mention or implication that the register was actually endorsed by DVSA as this was one of their issues at one time!

Pete :laughing: :laughing:

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No HPT :question:

Sadly that’s an error. Against many folks’ wishes, including mine, the hp test was left in place in order to gain endorsement from DVSA.

I’ll try to get the error corrected. Sorry to excite you ROG!

Pete :laughing: :laughing:

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I maybe a little cynical but this comes across as a group of larger companies trying to police the industry whilst simultaneously benefiting from the sales pitch that they are responsible for setting the standards

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Why is there no mention of HPT on the website :question:
Just seen you answered me above :unamused:

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I maybe a little cynical but this comes across as a group of larger companies trying to police the industry whilst simultaneously benefiting from the sales pitch that they are responsible for setting the standards

I understand what you’re saying and was aware that this was bound to come up. I’ll try to explain and you can form your own opinion.

These are the facts: nearly 20 years ago DVSA (DSA as then) formed the Voluntary LGV Instructor Register. This was intended to give recognition to instructors who could demonstrate a sound method of training. So I, and many others, went through the process of qualifying. A bit later, they introduced the Accredited School idea. This was awarded to those who could show that they had all the correct facilities for reversing, proper insurances (trust me, there’s many a truck with L plates insured for social domestic and pleasure!), public liability, employers liability. All paperwork in order for the vehicles. Employing only DSA instructors and a few more bits and bobs. So, as a company, we met the requirements so we became accredited. In August 2015, DVSA called a meeting of the trade bodies and all the accredited schools to announce, amongst other things, that they were not able to resourse the register in the long term. They asked the accredited schools to look at a way of continuing with a register. What you see now is the outcome of the work from August 2015.

There is no income to the register. Costs for the register are met by the Panel Members. The initial costs have been notable but not ridiculous. The ongoing costs are not enough to concern us. So its not driven by money.

The driver for the register is the continuing desire to be set apart from poor trainers. There is absolutely no reason why any good instructor could not qualify onto the register. Costs are little over £300 for a 5 year period and then will drop to half of that for following 5 year periods. So about £1 a week and 50p per week respectively.

Yes, the commercial advantage is in having exposure on another website. But think about it. I’m on a forum asking folks to join. I’ve emailed trainers, many of whom are within 50 miles of my centre, making the case for them to join. Surely it’s clear that my passion lies with getting trainers to seek acknowledgment of their standards. Potentially this could raise standards in the industry eventually. Not this week or next week!

If it was all about the bigger schools seeking more exposure, trust me, there’s much better ways of doing it than this. I stand to have my throughput diluted as other trainers join the register. I’ll cope with that. I’m more interested in reducing the number of phone calls from folks who have endured poor training with no facilities in ramshackle vehicles and zero customer service. Anyone who isn’t sure about this should spend half a day in my customer service office and listen to the calls. It’s reaching scary proportions and needs to stop.

So I am not sanctimonious. I’m not self promoting (on this particular subject!). I’m not trying to get money from anyone (the register charges zero fees and has no facility for handling transactions of any type).

Those who know me might be able to believe that this is a genuine effort to try and tidy up this unregulated industry once and for all. For the sceptics, sorry, I’ll never convince you.

Pete :laughing: :laughing:

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It would be similar to the FA saying to Man utd, chelsea and liverpool, you guys take over the direction of English football and the rest have to toe the line. I would be very concerned that the DVSA are considering endorsing this.

Had you decided to get together with the larger organisations and considered the way the industry was moving, then took the decision to create a trade body that INCLUDED all training companies and allowed some representatives to be on the panel to air their views regardless of size then I think the organisation may have held more weight.

From the outside looking in it looks to me like you’re trying to control the industry. It’s clear that the DVSA are looking to close as many sites as possible. So what is the next step, the panel member sites become the new test centres for the dvsa? XYZ trainer has to then take his customer to a fully branded Peter Smythe testing station?

I don’t doubt you’re passionate about raising standards. However, I also think you’re smart enough to see the benefits of being in control of assessing the local companies in your area on your land.

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jonnyboat:
It would be similar to the FA saying to Man utd, chelsea and liverpool, you guys take over the direction of English football and the rest have to toe the line. I would be very concerned that the DVSA are considering endorsing this.

Had you decided to get together with the larger organisations and considered the way the industry was moving, then took the decision to create a trade body that INCLUDED all training companies and allowed some representatives to be on the panel to air their views regardless of size then I think the organisation may have held more weight.

From the outside looking in it looks to me like you’re trying to control the industry. It’s clear that the DVSA are looking to close as many sites as possible. So what is the next step, the panel member sites become the new test centres for the dvsa? XYZ trainer has to then take his customer to a fully branded Peter Smythe testing station?

I don’t doubt you’re passionate about raising standards. However, I also think you’re smart enough to see the benefits of being in control of assessing the local companies in your area on your land.

That is a very good point and well made.

I for one will not be backing this venture as one of the directors is a convicted fraudster! So much for quality and integrity!

hertsandessexobserver.co.uk/ … story.html

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… and, as you are well aware, this is being addressed immediately. I had no idea of this situation until you let me know - for which I was grateful.

Pete :laughing: :laughing:

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It would be similar to the FA saying to Man utd, chelsea and liverpool, you guys take over the direction of English football and the rest have to toe the line. I would be very concerned that the DVSA are considering endorsing this.

Had you decided to get together with the larger organisations and considered the way the industry was moving, then took the decision to create a trade body that INCLUDED all training companies and allowed some representatives to be on the panel to air their views regardless of size then I think the organisation may have held more weight.

From the outside looking in it looks to me like you’re trying to control the industry. It’s clear that the DVSA are looking to close as many sites as possible. So what is the next step, the panel member sites become the new test centres for the dvsa? XYZ trainer has to then take his customer to a fully branded Peter Smythe testing station?

I don’t doubt you’re passionate about raising standards. However, I also think you’re smart enough to see the benefits of being in control of assessing the local companies in your area on your land.

You’ll be surprised to know I don’t agree with these comments! And I’ll explain why:

The register has nothing to do with size of company. It’s absolutely viable for a one man band to be a registered centre. And, at the very least, to be registered as an instructor. There’s plenty of trainers with bigger operations than mine that I would like to see on the register - provided they can meet the criteria. (which they would be able to I’m sure).

I don’t see where the “control” issue has come from. I have no control over the industry and don’t understand how that’s likely to change. Maybe you could tell me cos I’d like to know!

DVSA have a well known intent to close their test centres. The prospect of driving tests being conducted from other trainers’ sites is not new. It’s been going on for a number of years. But, you might be interested in this bit. I had the very first private driving test centre in the UK. And it’s still not open to the public. It’s available for use by my candidates only.

I’m pleased you recognise that I’m keen to raise training standards. At the moment, it’s a bear-pit. Ring a driving school to learn to drive a Fiesta and the person sat at the side of you has to be trained, qualified and on the DVSA register. It’s a criminal offence not to be. But, phone a driving school to learn to drive a truck and anyone who has held a licence for 3 years can sit at the side of you, take your money and that’s fine. How is that right?? The hard fact is that folks lose thousands of pounds every day by using the very poor “trainers” that are out there. I hasten to add, as always, that being on a register does not suddenly improve the standard of training - but it demonstrates that the person is actually capable of doing the job properly. There’s dozens and dozens of very good trainers doing an excellent job and they’re not on any register. They will have their reasons but I struggle to understand. I am keen to put the dog rough trainers out of business so that folks no longer lose their money with them. It really is a scandal that no-one seems concerned about.

Maybe you can tell me when

being in control of assessing the local companies in your area on your land.

starts. It’s news to me.

The motivation is clear, upfront and honest. The problem with a forum is that there are many folks who will not know the person to whom their comments are addressed. My integrity is intact and will continue to be so. I am merely spending time (and money) trying to protect the buying public. I don’t see what’s wrong with that.

Pete :laughing: :laughing:

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Right my take: firstly I admire Peters enthusiasm on quality training across the board…but unfortunately in every industry you will get the good the bad and the ugly service providers.

IMO this new register will not change anything in the industry until it is passed through parliament and becomes law.

I look at my business and conclude I have my own governing bodies which make it work which are:

  1. The DVSA examiners that conduct my trainees tests and I liaise with.

  2. The results from the tests

  3. Steady turnover of customers who book from recommendations

I always maintain that us as instructors/ owners we should’ concentrate on ourselves and not worry about what the rest are doing as quality will always prevail.

I believe the industry needs me more than I need to be on the register, so at present I won’t be joining the scheme and with the revelation by burnie I’m not sure how the register can be supported…

Paul

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From a complete novice perspective as I went with a company that had a good reputation from word of mouth and after seeing what the place was like from a video without even having to go there. This is my thoughts on the subject.

DVSA said they could no longer staff this register as it comes across to me, in other words it cost them money to do it and they got me return or not enough return to warrant being able to keep it going. Rather than just stop it they looked for an avenue for something to carry on in its place that was not run by them.

A bunch of industry leaders to run it may be the obvious choice although you could question the conflict of interest as it is now being run by the people running businesses in the industry. Rather a more robust system was if the register was actually run by some body either related to the industry but not in a training sense or a completely impartial body with no links to the training provider services for LGV’s.

I have no idea off hand what any of this would achieve over and above or under that the current scheme offers.

However as for the issue of being registered or not and whether a car training school provider needs to accredited/registered these are my thoughts.

Learning to drive a car is very different, you have to be taught how to drive from scratch, so it’s right the qualifications should be expected to be able to train people to do so.

However learning to drive an LGV does differ in that people have already been taught how to drive, and in lots of cases have been driving for some considerable time. So learning to drive an LGV is not really about being taught how to drive but how to drive a larger vehicle mainly due to the differences in size and turning and reversing.

So yes it’s still teaching someone how to pass a test and get used to a much larger vehicle, but anyone who can drive such a vehicle and pass whatever tests an LGV instructor has to pass to instruct is qualified to do so. Regardless of being on some list to say they are.

I don’t really know what I am trying to get across as I haven’t been to bed since my night shift last night so it may just be the tiredness talking whilst vegging watching TV on the sofa.

Having said all that I don’t really buy into body’s that govern something unless it can legally govern and protect the interests of the consumer.

I fail to see what this will achieve that a successful business run by a successful person/company can’t already do. Businesses earn trust and an identity by the way they operate and are successful if done right most of the time, most of the badly run companies we see are the ones that are too big and have more interest in shareholders / top bosses making obscene money rather than protecting the employees jobs whilst still making a justifiable salary. Although with that analogy I doubt there are many if even any LGV schools that make millions of pounds of profit each year.

Regardless of any list I would still choose a training provider of any sort from their business image, referrals and seeing what is available from the company by going to see them in person and see what they can offer, especially when we are talking about the amount of money training costs.

To me the purchase is simple, in fact as simple as buying tea bags, I can buy PG yes they cost good money but I see a brand that has been created and has recognition, or I can buy happy crapper own brand tea bags, they are cheap and still make a drink, but they are cheap for a reason. Not all things are equal or black and white. And just because something is cheap or expensive or average does not equate to good or bad etc.

I’m waffling on and probably not making much sense, but if anything maybe this will offer some discussion about the subject even if to dispel any confusion I may have around the subject or entice further suggestions etc.

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Oh and lastly this "registered business on some sort of vouching register " smacks to me of something for people who can’t be bothered to explore their options available to them and make their own mind up whether it is value for money etc.

I think these things are increasing in many sectors but still does not guarantee the quality of something unless it is actively and regularly audited for compliance etc.

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Just to address the main point from above; the centres are audited on an annual basis. DSVA sent a person to me last time who had never done this before, had zero knowledge of trucks and had to be assisted through the process.

This is quite different to the industry expert highly qualified and totally independent auditor that is now in place with this register. So the integrity is maintained and is transparent.

Paul from Elmet is so correct in most of what he has said and I am on board with him. But he shows no interest in those folks who spend their money unwisely, no interest in the incorrectly insured trucks that are running about, no interest in the appalling standards of maintenance. I am certain that his operation is not going to fall foul of any of that and I would never suggest anything to the contrary.

But the hard fact is that, even as I’m writing this, folks are running round in sheds without the correct insurance, without proper maintenance and with untrained instructors. If anyone is fine with that, get on with it. But I’m not happy with it and I wont shut up until this industry is finally cleaned up. The register is not the total answer. It would be daft to think for a moment that it is. But it’s a tiny step in the right direction.

Pete :laughing: :laughing:

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Peter Smythe:
Paul from Elmet is so correct in most of what he has said and I am on board with him. But he shows no interest in those folks who spend their money unwisely, no interest in the incorrectly insured trucks that are running about, no interest in the appalling standards of maintenance. I am certain that his operation is not going to fall foul of any of that and I would never suggest anything to the contrary.

Pete :laughing: :laughing:

Peter my main interest and concern are my customers!! You state you would never question my standards but I believe you have done indirectly by mentioning it in the above sentence.

Again I stress the only way standards can improve across the board is for legislation to be changed in which I will be supportive of.

I for one will be maintaining my high standards and will be concentrating on my own operations which I suggest you do Peter rather than worrying about what the others are doing.

Paul

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How does getting instructors onto a register ensure that vehicles are properly maintained etc etc :question: