.
90% of the time the H/S is running as a live lane the signs are set to 60mph which means we can go flat out (as long as it isn’t too congested) , what annoys me is when I pass someone who is sat in lane 2 they won’t let me back across when the signs come up saying “H/S for jct27 only” , I’m using the road properly within the speed limits , indicating etc etc but these people think I’m jumping the ques and either won’t move over if they can or slow it down a click to let me in, this reason being sometimes I will sit in lane 1/2 depending how well the traffic is flowing, I’m contradicting my self in this post lol but sometimes if you can’t beat them you’ve got to join them eh? …
Smoggie89:
90% of the time the H/S is running as a live lane the signs are set to 60mph which means we can go flat out (as long as it isn’t too congested) , what annoys me is when I pass someone who is sat in lane 2 they won’t let me back across when the signs come up saying “H/S for jct27 only” , I’m using the road properly within the speed limits , indicating etc etc but these people think I’m jumping the ques and either won’t move over if they can or slow it down a click to let me in, this reason being sometimes I will sit in lane 1/2 depending how well the traffic is flowing, I’m contradicting my self in this post lol but sometimes if you can’t beat them you’ve got to join them eh? …
Expecting some one you have started to pass on the inside to slow down or move into the next lane when you indicate to go into the lane they are in, would be seen as bad road craft.
weeto:
Smoggie89:
90% of the time the H/S is running as a live lane the signs are set to 60mph which means we can go flat out (as long as it isn’t too congested) , what annoys me is when I pass someone who is sat in lane 2 they won’t let me back across when the signs come up saying “H/S for jct27 only” , I’m using the road properly within the speed limits , indicating etc etc but these people think I’m jumping the ques and either won’t move over if they can or slow it down a click to let me in, this reason being sometimes I will sit in lane 1/2 depending how well the traffic is flowing, I’m contradicting my self in this post lol but sometimes if you can’t beat them you’ve got to join them eh? …Expecting some one you have started to pass on the inside to slow down or move into the next lane when you indicate to go into the lane they are in, would be seen as bad road craft.
I don’t mean it like I sit alongside them mate , it’s when I pass on the left and keep in the H/S until the overhead signs show that it is for “jct27 only etc” I will indicate to get across and people will just happily sit alongside and not move over/ slow down , it’s not just truckers that do it , cars also , I think they must see people go by on the left and think **** them I’m not letting them push in lol , I agree with people when they say if everyone used these how they are intended to be used then they would flow a lot better, the situation about a broken down vehicle etc in lane 1 Is a hard 1 to judge because that can’t be predicted and everyone is going to react differently , and as someone said if you broke down near a ERA (or whatever they are called) then things would be a whole lot better for everyone but I don’t think a vehicle is going to know where these things are lol
Does anybody else get the impression that a certain member on here is sat on his own having a thoroughly crap Christmas and is in the grumpiest of moods 
Never mind alte haste mate, there’s always New Year 
robroy:
Does anybody else get the impression that a certain member on here is sat on his own having a thoroughly crap Christmas and is in the grumpiest of moods
Never mind alte haste mate, there’s always New Year
He’ll be sat in the middle of the room and he won’t be moving for anyone though. 
robroy:
Does anybody else get the impression that a certain member on here is sat on his own having a thoroughly crap Christmas and is in the grumpiest of moods
Never mind alte haste mate, there’s always New Year
I’m alwyas in a grumpy mood. It’s just today I’m forced to engage with family I dont like and it makes my mood even grumpier. Hence why I’m the sad act posting on TNet on xmas day 
join the club…im stuck near Gothenburg for 10 days with the inlaws,one of whom id like to beat to a pulp with a claw hammer.bored,frozen,scunnered,and bored again…and…isn’t it the one joining the lane that’s meant to give way? moreso when its busy and the lanes will be packed,hence the reason the idiots open the h/s in the 1st place.
exit:
I commute on the M6 out of Birmingham and have seen about a dozen instances over the years of obstructions on a running hard shoulder, but this morning was pretty scary. I joined southbound at J5 and all lanes were showing 60 limit, traffic flowing at around that speed. Moved into lane 1, catching a tipper, he indicated left and was half way on the hard shoulder when he suddenly swerved back out. A moment later we passed two cars stuck on the hard shoulder, drivers standing there. Wonder if they were aware how close they were to being wiped out.
Happened to me on the m1 a couple of weeks ago on the m1. Hard shoulder open, was following a truck and another truck was overtaking me in lane one. Next thing truck in front changed lanes and the next thing a know there’s a golf on the hardshoulder. Luckily for me(or the car on the hardshoulder) the truck overtaking me saw the danger moved over in to lane 2 so I could change lanes otherwise I wouldn’t have been able to move over and hit the Golf at 50 mpg. Great driving from that truck driver. Could of been a nasty smash!!
themattster79:
Luckily for me(or the car on the hardshoulder) the truck overtaking me saw the danger moved over in to lane 2 so I could change lanes otherwise I wouldn’t have been able to move over and hit the Golf at 50 mpg.
That’s excellent fuel economy for a hard shoulder strike. Your boss wouldn’t have any reason to complain.
Contraflow:
themattster79:
Luckily for me(or the car on the hardshoulder) the truck overtaking me saw the danger moved over in to lane 2 so I could change lanes otherwise I wouldn’t have been able to move over and hit the Golf at 50 mpg.That’s excellent fuel economy for a hard shoulder strike. Your boss wouldn’t have any reason to complain.
Ha ha!! Be lucky to get that out of my motor let alone a truck!!
IndigoJo:
I narrowly missed a car broken down on the hard shoulder near Luton on the M1 when it was being used as a lane. That section (from Toddington to Luton airport) has sharp bends for a motorway so you won’t see any stationary vehicles until you’re quite near. If they use the hard shoulder as lane 1, they should drop the speed limit to 50mph.
Wasn’t a silver golf by any chance at around 530am?
themattster79:
IndigoJo:
I narrowly missed a car broken down on the hard shoulder near Luton on the M1 when it was being used as a lane. That section (from Toddington to Luton airport) has sharp bends for a motorway so you won’t see any stationary vehicles until you’re quite near. If they use the hard shoulder as lane 1, they should drop the speed limit to 50mph.Wasn’t a silver golf by any chance at around 530am?
No, I can’t remember what the car looked like, but it was in June or July and around 5pm. I was on my way back from Rotherham, so southbound.
alte hase:
I don’t and won’t use the hard shoulders when they go ‘live’, the smart-asses smirking and sneering as they come hurtling-up the inside at break-neck speeds I’m quite prepared for them to ‘beat me’ along the road, what these trucking dumb-asses don’t realise is that I’m not in the same race as them, watching as they swerve from hard shoulder back to lane one and vice-versa, as the motorway’s ‘live hard shoulder’ comes-and-goes in existence or there’s someone else to swerve round, like they are in a go-kart race, real professional heavy truck drivers, that they are, to-be-sure.These hard shoulders opened up for ‘live traffic’ are the brainchild of the puerile pen-pushing cheapskate middle classes, whose inherrent position of keeping their heads lifelong up their own asses is the only reason this ridiculous ‘live hard shoulder’ running came to be thought of, I salute their ‘head-up-asse’ idiocy by resolutely refusing to endorse it, its called self preservation, something the current crop of hgv/truck drivers have little concept of, something to do with 99% of them being truckwit car drivers in HGV’s, trucking morons, to-be-sure.
Its drivers like you that ■■■■ off other road users and force them to undertake and possibly cause an accident. Highway code says keep left at all times unless overtaking. I suppose you get into your Peugeot 207 and sit in the middle lane for 60 miles and refuse to keep left. If ya an experienced trucker you should be able to anticipate dangers ahead but i do agree with you that it can be dangerous driving on the hard shoulder. But it does cause less traffic congestion having the hard shoulder open.
Consider this:
If the traffic in lanes 1-3 is chocka, and the hard shoulder is “opened” into a live lane…
It will NEVER be right for traffic to rush up the inside to “ease congestion”… If the main traffic is moving along at say, 50mph, then you have the choice of sitting at a safe distance behind at 50mph yourself, or moving into live hard shoulder lane, and doing the same. If you accelerate, you’re out of order.
The whole idea is just damned silly, and if anyone thinks it’s “good lane discipline” to simply obey the instructions of daft suits - how can they react and respond correctly when they run into the inevitable need to “undertake” or crash into that parked vehicle that has actually broken down?
The M25 accident of 01:50am December 9th would be such an accident “greatly increased” by the use of the former hard shoulder as a live lane now.
Removing hard shoulders on a permanent of temporary basis is already proven to be downright dangerous, and whoever came up with the idea should be charged with corporate manslaughter for the deaths already caused.
I’m appalled at the “do as you’re told, it’s right and proper to do so” attitude people seem to have regarding dumb practice that’ll get many people killed as time goes by.
Alte Hase happens to have an opinion that I 100% agree with here. There’s no shame in having a different, safer opinion and interpretation over the hard-of-thinking here.
Perhaps those who think it’s a “must” to use the newly-live hard shoulder as a lane 1 - are the same people who disregard 50mph speed limits - because they’re on this job-and-knock mentality as well - another area of “gross driving negligence” that needs to be addressed by the law with all haste.
I’ve yet to see those using this extra opened lane as a “crawler lane” - put it that way. It’s always used to “undertake” a congested main three carriageways, which is not what “easing congestion” is supposed to be about, except perhaps if the lane is peeling off at the next junction less than a mile distant…
Who’s gonna put their hand up to "pulling over into the off-slip, because that’s the proper thing to do, only to have to swerve out in front of the by-now overtaking artic just before the lane drop at the junction ahead?
In MY interpretation - “Good Lane Discipline” is pick a lane and stay in it - and obey those gantry signs that say “congestion stay in lane”.
What next? Who pulls over into lane 1 approaching J15 clockwise on the M25 when they intend staying on the M25?
I’ll sit in lane FOUR this time - and as a result, will not have to change lane once as I pass J15, then the joining traffic from the M4, and then the peeling off traffic for the M40 next junction…
There’s been plenty of accidents on these slip roads, often involving coaches. If you sit passing it all in lane 4 from 6 before the M4, then 2 from 4 passing the M40 - these accidents won’t be involving you as well… See the wisdom for what it is here please.
Anyone who feels “forced to undertake” because of all this - needs to consider surrendering their licence with all haste - before they kill someone.
If the vehicle in lane 2 is flat out - WHY is there even a need to undertake in any case?
We don’t moan about the boy racers doing 85 in lane 3 after all…
We DO moan about sunday drivers doing 45 in lane 2 though. That I can understand, but this is not what this argument is all about.
Winseer:
Consider this:
Alte Hase happens to have an opinion that I 100% agree with here. There’s no shame in having a different, safer opinion and interpretation over the hard-of-thinking here.
Fortunately the more that share this view the better as it gives me a open and clear lane to make progress in. Also a different opinion isn’t neccesarily a safer opinion just different. At any given time regardless of how we belive the safest way to drive is situations will arise that involve us to rethink certain aspects of our own driving style…its called learning.
On the downside this makes you part of the problem rather than part of the solution (In my opinion). Umpteen years of driving experience means very little reagrding smart motorways as they are relatively new and some drivers still aren’t sure of the correct times to use the H/S.
Now I’m all for standing your ground and driving in a manner thats safe and if some drivers wish to stay off the hard shoulder thats fine and the rest of us will make allowances.
As always some will resist change some will embrace it.
That doesn’t mean I’m a fan of smart motorways but they seem to work and even though they are very dangerous if theres an unseen obstruction we all expect to see an obstruction at some point anway so just have to concentrate a little harder.
Who’s gonna put their hand up to "pulling over into the off-slip, because that’s the proper thing to do, only to have to swerve out in front of the by-now overtaking artic just before the lane drop at the junction ahead?
Never happened to me yet.
In MY interpretation - “Good Lane Discipline” is pick a lane and stay in it - and obey those gantry signs that say “congestion stay in lane”.
Try obeying the sign that says ‘Congestion use hard shoulder’ and it will be amazing how it changes your outlook on this.
Now I do understand some drivers be it car or large vehicle have difficulty changing lanes and any situation that causes a lot of lane changing should in theory cause more issues and pinch points. However smart motorways although they have their bottlenecks when the smart section ends these tend to be well signed and lots of road available to make the manouvres and even ‘merge in turn’ (a weird concept for some).
But as I’m one of the worst drivers on the road and at any given time I will be in the wrong lane or lost or missed a turning etc I put that down to an occupational hazard. My primary objective is to get from A to B as safely and as discretley as possible-- if in doing so I can make other road users day easier I will. Its all about the journey for me and if I’m worrying about others lack of lane discipline then I’m losing sight of the prize which is of course to get home in one piece at the end of the week and if I’m really lucky I have gone all week without being tooted at which is my bonus prize.
alte hase:
Coffeeholic:
alte hase:
I don’t and won’t use the hard shoulders when they go ‘live’You could have saved yourselfa lot of typing. We got it at that point that you’re an idiot when it comes to driving with a a lack of knowledge of the most basic rule of the road while causing inconvenience to other toad users who wish to pass you by hogging a lane.
Merry Chirstmas.
Another trucknet idiot
I think you will find Mr CH is NOT one of TN idiots 
Alte Hase my apologies I was foisted by my own auto complete. It should have been “an odd km”, but it wasn’t that hard to work out. Xoxox
I fear that you might be the one falling foul of the law, because if you are not reading signs and reacting to the road conditions. You sir are lane hogging.
If you move over once and then pass a slower line of traffic under normal conditions then you haven’t undertaken them. You have normal progress up the carriageway and every single one of them should have been in your space. But they weren’t, they were lane hogging.
Just as a by the by, when people start bleating about having a clean license that they have since Jesus was on the cross, it normally means they have run out of things in their argument.
Winseer, 99% of the time I think what you have to say is well worth reading, and listening to. But it just isn’t so this time.
That example at J15 is fine and dandy and all that. But what if you have never driven it before? You have to remember that the car behind, in front, and all around you, might be on that stretch of road for the first time. The only thing they can do is follow the rules of the road, and read and react to the signs on the gantry.
If you can move over, then move over, if the over head signs and white lines says that this is a slip road for the next junction then don’t. It’s as simple as that. It’s not hard. It’s not dangerous. People who think changing a lane is dangerous, aren’t doing it right.
andy187:
alte hase:
Coffeeholic:
alte hase:
I don’t and won’t use the hard shoulders when they go ‘live’You could have saved yourselfa lot of typing. We got it at that point that you’re an idiot when it comes to driving with a a lack of knowledge of the most basic rule of the road while causing inconvenience to other toad users who wish to pass you by hogging a lane.
Merry Chirstmas.
Another trucknet idiot
I think you will find Mr CH is NOT one of TN idiots
I think you will find he is. 