and thrice
Happy Keith:
bigvern1:
āā¦ Some poor [zb] is dead. It matters not where he was from. Itās a shameā¦āHmmm, maybe more his shame resulting from his decision, etc, than mine for having a Muppet Government
Edited - after consideration that, as a supposed advanced nation, albeit with deluded governance domestically and shackled with unwanted foreign direction, perhaps the shame is consistent & equal for all participants to bare
My key to alleviate my share of shame is to democratically urge binning the current practice of threadbare UK borders and restore them unto a meaningful, accountable, properly and democratically functioning management, ie., independently of all meddling EU dictation
IT, etc, now exists whereby hauling to/from the continent need not take any longer to navigate - so letās diss that argument straight awayā¦
Cue the uber-liberal, do-gooding, pinko suspects in an indignant rage?
You canāt blame this issue on the EU.It is all about our own governmentās policy of attracting as much cheap labour to come here as possible,regardless of how it gets here.While pretending the opposite.
Of COURSE we can blame the EU for all this.
If the EU in the form of German dictat or anything else tells the UK to ālickcockā and our useless government goes ahead and does just thatā¦ Whoās fault is it? Our government for not having any balls? Or ourselves among the public for not doing the other thing and voting them out for good?
Among the press today, we donāt get to hear about āhow much money Osbourne has wasted todayā but we DO get to hear about illegally taped private telephone conversations - All because the Press still backs the Blue Rosettes.
If enough people believe the rubbish as highlighted in national newspapers - weāll be voting for Tory as usual with their āVote for us, because Labour are worseā argument. And itāll be a winning argument among all those weak-minded fools out there who donāt know when itās time to shove your stack, and get behind an unknown quantity alternative party.
Iām not just talking about UKIP here, but also SNP for those north of the border, Plaid Cymru in Wales, and the Greens darn south as well. I find the idea of a rainbow coalition to keep BOTH Labour and Tory out of office for a generation as something quite refreshing, and worth getting out of bed to vote for. 
What happened to the first bod who climbed out from underneath btw? Has he been duly busted/deported/jailed for leading his comrade-in-axle-hanging-on to his death? - Or, are the authorities merely after their usual fayre of āarresting a driverā, just not āat the sceneā this time around? 
Winseer:
Of COURSE we can blame the EU for all this.If the EU in the form of German dictat or anything else tells the UK to ālickcockā and our useless government goes ahead and does just thatā¦ Whoās fault is it? Our government for not having any balls? Or ourselves among the public for not doing the other thing and voting them out for good?
Among the press today, we donāt get to hear about āhow much money Osbourne has wasted todayā but we DO get to hear about illegally taped private telephone conversations - All because the Press still backs the Blue Rosettes.
If enough people believe the rubbish as highlighted in national newspapers - weāll be voting for Tory as usual with their āVote for us, because Labour are worseā argument. And itāll be a winning argument among all those weak-minded fools out there who donāt know when itās time to shove your stack, and get behind an unknown quantity alternative party.
Iām not just talking about UKIP here, but also SNP for those north of the border, Plaid Cymru in Wales, and the Greens darn south as well. I find the idea of a rainbow coalition to keep BOTH Labour and Tory out of office for a generation as something quite refreshing, and worth getting out of bed to vote for.What happened to the first bod who climbed out from underneath btw? Has he been duly busted/deported/jailed for leading his comrade-in-axle-hanging-on to his death? - Or, are the authorities merely after their usual fayre of āarresting a driverā, just not āat the sceneā this time around?
How can it be anything to do with the EU when EU immigrants donāt need to hide underneath trucks to get in.This is all about ānonā EU immigration from third world Asian and African etc countries which the government wants here to keep wage levels as low as possible.The fact is there is no EU rule that says we canāt summarily deport such immigrants or stop them having any rights to social security and housing benefits when they arrive here.Which in fact is actually what the EU,in the form of France,is actually calling for to remove the attraction of immigrants camping out in Calais etc to get here.
Carryfast:
āā¦How can it be anything to do with the EU when EU immigrants donāt need to hide underneath trucks to get inā¦ā
Er, because the UK ripped out proper/meaningful UK border control at the behest of Brussels & an āAgreementā (Schengen?) - although how was it democratically discussed amongst us proleās for us to āagreeā that which was, in effect, dictated upon us by foreign clerks 
Thatās how
Or Iāll spin it around and ask how the EU has made the UK less of a magnet to disaffect & diversify this place which did not get majorly consulted with such seeking of soul-ripping disaffection or uncontrolled diversification involving sundry herberts falling off lorry axles 
Iād be interested to know how many people on here who complain of our lack of border control actually have experience of crossing our borders in a truck, because the way some go on youād think you could just drive in without a care in the world.
Happy Keith:
Or Iāll spin it around and ask how the EU has made the UK less of a magnet to disaffect & diversify this place which did not get majorly consulted with such seeking of soul-ripping disaffection or uncontrolled diversification involving sundry herberts falling off lorry axles
Good grief, are you speaking in tongues again Keith?
THe EU should be making sure that none of the actual āillegalsā ever get as far as Calais.
FFS - theyāve crossed multiple countries in the EU to get thus far! 
Also, the EU are hardly giving us a big pile of money to ādeal with our immigration problem as given to the UK by themāā¦
The only part that can be called āour governmentās faultā - is the lack of comparison between our immigration policy, and those of other COMMONWEALTH states, such as Australia or Canadaā¦ Where you have to be fairly well-heeled, have a trade at least, have a job lined up - to prove you can support yourself without any state help (which you wouldnāt be entitled to!) when you arrive in one of these very much FIRST world democratic states that we should be a lot more like in this country ourselvesā¦
Iāve got no problem with actual Europeans coming here to work. Itās the illegals from further afield that are causing all the problems. Not only are we importing drains upon our state, but very likely āradicalismā and āpetty crimeā as well.
Itās not racist to not want my country to turn into Somalia or Yemen - before anyone gets on their high horseā¦ 
Winseer:
THe EU should be making sure that none of the actual āillegalsā ever get as far as Calais.FFS - theyāve crossed multiple countries in the EU to get thus far!
Also, the EU are hardly giving us a big pile of money to ādeal with our immigration problem as given to the UK by themāā¦
I agree this is a EU problem, and it effects more than just the UK. It needs to be dealt with by EU co-operation not the blame shifting weāre seeing at the moment.
Winseer:
The only part that can be called āour governmentās faultā - is the lack of comparison between our immigration policy, and those of other COMMONWEALTH states, such as Australia or Canadaā¦ Where you have to be fairly well-heeled, have a trade at least, have a job lined up - to prove you can support yourself without any state help (which you wouldnāt be entitled to!) when you arrive in one of these very much FIRST world democratic states that we should be a lot more like in this country ourselvesā¦
We have immigration controls, if youāre trying to get here legally from outside the EU, you will need visas, work permits and prove you have a reason to come here. Iāve worked for companies whoāve employed People from Australia and New Zealand and theyāve had to get all the correct permits or the company could face large fines.
But these immigration controls donāt stop illegal immigrants, and Canada, the US, Australia, New Zealand and many other European countries all have their own problems controlling illegal immigrants.
Winseer:
Iāve got no problem with actual Europeans coming here to work. Itās the illegals from further afield that are causing all the problems. Not only are we importing drains upon our state, but very likely āradicalismā and āpetty crimeā as well.Itās not racist to not want my country to turn into Somalia or Yemen - before anyone gets on their high horseā¦
Iām in 2 minds about EU migration, I think on principle itās a good thing to have access to a massive jobs markets, but I also think the volume of workers coming into this country is causing problems.
Happy Keith:
Carryfast:
āā¦How can it be anything to do with the EU when EU immigrants donāt need to hide underneath trucks to get inā¦āEr, because the UK ripped out proper/meaningful UK border control at the behest of Brussels & an āAgreementā (Schengen?) - although how was it democratically discussed amongst us proleās for us to āagreeā that which was, in effect, dictated upon us by foreign clerks
Thatās how
Or Iāll spin it around and ask how the EU has made the UK less of a magnet to disaffect & diversify this place which did not get majorly consulted with such seeking of soul-ripping disaffection or uncontrolled diversification involving sundry herberts falling off lorry axles
The inconvenient fact for that argument is that we arenāt in the Schengen agreement.Which,unlike France,Belgium,Germany etc etc is why we actually do have border controls between Calais and Dover.Ironically in this case it is the fact that the immigrants prefer to get out of the Schengen countries,to come here by hiding under trucks,to get through āourā border controls,proves that it is our problem in attracting them here just as the mayor of Calais says.
As for immigration policy based on āethnic diversityā ( actually the importation of cheap labour ) weāve had that problem since 1946 long before we joined the EU.Hence the fate of Enoch Powell.None of which can be blamed on the EU.
People also forget that if you are an āillegalā thereās no need to pay minimun wages, national insurance, and provide any kind of health and safety for your staff whatsoever.
The police are so ragged these days, concentrating on crime busts that āearnā as they do (parking fines, incorrect paperwork for us Brits etc) that there must be a mass of āsheds with bedsā employers around who are employing their entire staff illegally, and have practically made indentured slaves of them.
The recent case in Leighton Buzzard was about Brits (homeless ones) being treated this way. How much easier would such a large scale crime be possible behind the veil of silence (albeit āFearā and āNo Speke Englishā silence!) for those here illegally in the first place?
Canāt go to the police, their bosses unlikely to be busted by the policeā¦
Kin 'ell 
Doesnāt anyone else see the absolute desperation of these people, that they feel the need to risk their lives hanging under a truck? Illegal or not, regardless of our ridiculous govāt and their useless laws, these people are somebodyās parents, siblings, sons, daughters etc. What would make you feel something was worth hanging under a lorry for hours or days for? Iād have had to run out of a hell of a lot of options before I even considered it. RIP anonymous person 
^^^^ absolute desperation and absolute desperation to get to the UK are two wildly different things!
the maoster:
^^^^ absolute desperation and absolute desperation to get to the UK are two wildly different things!
Not really.
the maoster:
^^^^ absolute desperation and absolute desperation to get to the UK are two wildly different things!
How? In the UK we ā ā ā ā ā & moan if we havenāt got a 7 foot flat-screen or weāve not had a holiday for 6 months, but have we ever been in these peopleās situation?
switchlogic:
the maoster:
^^^^ absolute desperation and absolute desperation to get to the UK are two wildly different things!Not really.
Iāve got to disagree Luke. I understand the desperation to escape persecution, torture, starvation etc, any of these things would make any sane individual flee the place where it could happen to them. So to that end I would say that once said individual had reached the relative safety of any EU country then their journey would be over, after all each EU country has the same safe haven laws guaranteeing asylum to those in genuine need, so my point was just what would make a person who had acheived safe haven once more risk their life on the axle of a lorry just to reach the UK? Surely it canāt be the lure of our glorious summers?
Face:
the maoster:
^^^^ absolute desperation and absolute desperation to get to the UK are two wildly different things!How? In the UK we ā ā ā ā ā & moan if we havenāt got a 7 foot flat-screen or weāve not had a holiday for 6 months, but have we ever been in these peopleās situation?
Absolutely. I imagine you havenāt either. However if you wish to recreate just a small amount of what theyāve been through you are perfectly entitled to open your house to them, donate a significant amount of your income to helping them, perhaps give a percentage of your weekly shopping to them (just drive around any major UK city and youāll find them ready, willing and able to take your stuff).
Or perhaps instead of moaning about how easy we have it you could actually leave your job and move to Iran, Iraq, Somalia or wherever and become an aid worker, and really help these poor unfortunates.
Armchair bloody liberals! Donāt make me laugh.
the maoster:
switchlogic:
the maoster:
^^^^ absolute desperation and absolute desperation to get to the UK are two wildly different things!Not really.
Iāve got to disagree Luke. I understand the desperation to escape persecution, torture, starvation etc, any of these things would make any sane individual flee the place where it could happen to them. So to that end I would say that once said individual had reached the relative safety of any EU country then their journey would be over, after all each EU country has the same safe haven laws guaranteeing asylum to those in genuine need, so my point was just what would make a person who had acheived safe haven once more risk their life on the axle of a lorry just to reach the UK? Surely it canāt be the lure of our glorious summers?
Only the idealist socialist cause and their cheap labour employer allies could possibly think that it isnāt all about economic āasylumā not safety.Firstly in the form of getting to the EU and then whichever EU country offers the best deal in that regard.No surprise which EU country offers the best deal in that regard just as it has since long before we joined the EU.As for safety the fact is we are probably more at risk here from the results of that open door immigration policy than the immigrants are at home.
No of course I havenāt, but how would opening my house or donating money to people give me an insight into their lives exactly?
I know people arenāt perfect, I know our immigration system is a farce, I understand the point of the first safe haven, I havenāt expressed any opinion about immigration per se, but I can only speak from my own perspective - and I canāt think of too much which would cause me to want to play Russian Roulette with a truck axle!
I am a proper cynical s**tbag, but to be honest the first thing that springs to my mind when I hear such stories isnāt āserves the ā ā ā ā ā ā ā rightā. That doesnāt make me an armchair liberal at all, a term thatās bandied about when anybody has any kind of sympathy for anyone other than their close family.
Face:
No of course I havenāt, but how would opening my house or donating money to people give me an insight into their lives exactly?
I know people arenāt perfect, I know our immigration system is a farce, I understand the point of the first safe haven, I havenāt expressed any opinion about immigration per se, but I can only speak from my own perspective - and I canāt think of too much which would cause me to want to play Russian Roulette with a truck axle!
I am a proper cynical s**tbag, but to be honest the first thing that springs to my mind when I hear such stories isnāt āserves the [zb] rightā. That doesnāt make me an armchair liberal at all, a term thatās bandied about when anybody has any kind of sympathy for anyone other than their close family.
The identifying feature of the socialist/cheap labour alliance cause is that of bleeding heart sympathy wether genuine in the case of the socialists or false in the case of the modern day slavers.As opposed to whatās needed if we really want to save lives by telling the potential immigrants that they arenāt wanted here nor are they welcome and we arenāt a charity either for them or those who employ them all to make some extra profit.So zb off back home where they belong if not weāll send them back by force if needed.Thereby removing the attraction of coming here thereby no more of them falling off of trucks in the road in the process.