330hp sounds a lot for that size truck, they mostly use a Merc engine of South American origin nowadays, but used to have a Series 50 which was a series 60 with two pots lopped off the end. Those little Freightliners go up to the FL120 which is a class 7/8 tractor unit, so 330hp is pushing the boundaries at max gross weight, must be a choice of engines, I’m a snob though, not that interested in lorries unless they bend in the middle, so don’t know for sure what it is, except that it won’t be replacing the Pete anytime soon
Notice the cab It’s the old 814 cab from Mercedes Benz
newmercman:
The actual point of the twin splitter was to make a constant mesh transmission that needed minimal stick movements, Eaton had realised that drivers were a dying breed and were being replaced by licence holders, so they made the twin splitter, which, when it was in the top slot could drop down to speeds as low as 30mph by using the splitter alone, therefore no crunching from mis-timed stick movements
BTW the twin splitter, like a knife through butter
Just like a ‘proper’ roadranger and the drivers must have won out over the licence holders because the twin split is obsolete whereas the road ranger isn’t yet . [/
I always found the 13 speed fuller easier to use than the twin splitter but no problems with it.
But these days I much prefer I shift
Muckaway:
I’m going to refer a couple of “drivers” with us to this thread; To them, they think the Eaton range/splitter 12speed 'box is a twin split. When I tell them otherwise (and when Workshop Manager tells them we only had 2 on B and C regs) they act like we’re talking a foreign language…
I’m guessing you are talking about the eaton rtso gearbox. Fodens used it on the alpha and MAN used it on some f2000 models. Awful gearbox gave lots of trouble with synchs breaking up not a patch on zf ecosplit box
Reading an old T&D from when the Foden 3000 came out, I didn’t realise you could have a synchromesh 'box as an option; We were still buying constant mesh’s until the 4000 cab ended.
newmercman:
A ■■■■■■■ turbo with 200hp? The only turbo ■■■■■■■ I’m aware of with 200hp is the B series, that was a four/six wheeler engine usually, it would not make the minimum power to weight ratio to be plated at 38ton, Could you mean the L10 at 250hp? That did feel like it only had 200hp, especially at 38ton
Thinking back it was some time ago, I am sure it was a special light weight unit that I was told was a 200 ■■■■■■■ and thinking back it wasn’t 38 ton gross but 36 ton gross. Before that I was doing long distance work with an A series ERF with only a day cab and a 220 ■■■■■■■ with a plank across the engine cover for a bed. Happy days then just being young and working hard.
newmercman:
I don’t know that Fuller do an automatic
330hp sounds a lot for that size truck, they mostly use a Merc engine of South American origin nowadays, but used to have a Series 50 which was a series 60 with two pots lopped off the end. Those little Freightliners go up to the FL120 which is a class 7/8 tractor unit, so 330hp is pushing the boundaries at max gross weight, must be a choice of engines, I’m a snob though, not that interested in lorries unless they bend in the middle,
That’s why I was questioning that spec as described.The only fullers that I’m familiar with are the 9 or 13 speeds.I thought you were saying that the 7 speed would be an automated manual which is what I meant by ‘auto’ in that case.
As you’ve probably seen I’m a ‘snob’ in that a truck can never be too powerful or be fitted with a motor that’s too big and in general artics are just a sideshow.If it must have a trailer then just put a drawbar on the back.
It’s must have been that mispent youth messing about with fire trucks that did it which is why a special order for a 330 motor in that wouldn’t surprise me.
dri-diddly-iver:
Thank the willy wavers for progress eh
I take it you’re referring to me (among others) for my comments on the gearboxes of Eaton Fuller. Well my friend, I think you are jumping to conclusions there. I am, and always have been, a big advocate of automated manual transmissions and progress in general when it comes to lorries. I will add a disclaimer that I’m not a fan of technology for technology’s sake, but if it improves things, then I’m a fan. I have driven lorries for 25yrs and started out driving lorries that were 10yrs old or more, so I’ve had my fair share of old nails and even at my most nostalgic I would never take an older lorry over a brand new one with all the bells and whistles. I happen to think that the Scania 143-450 is the best lorry ever made, but I wouldn’t get out of a new R series to drive one. Nostalgia has a place and it isn’t at work
However, ■■■■ taking aside, the fact is a lot of drivers cannot use a constant mesh transmission, that is not good, they’re not rocket science, you just have to get the RPMs right and the shift will slip through like a knife through butter. Now where’s the hard work in that
A well timed gearchange in a Fuller Roadranger or Twin Splitter is far easier on the shoulder than any shift in a synchromesh transmission. Sure you can just dip the clutch and move the stick and the synchro rings do all the hard work for you, but that is not very professional is it Synchro rings will suffer premature wear if they’re working hard all the time, that’s adding complication, expense and weight to a component to overcome the shortcomings of drivers. The constant mesh gearbox on the other hand ensures that the driver is on top of their game all the time…or you end up playing tunes
Another thing to consider, is that all of the automated manual transmissions use constant mesh, because the computer is making the change, the RPMs are perfectly matched, so the synchro rings are unnecessary, so therefore the conclusion is that the only advantage of synchromesh transmissions is that they make bad drivers look good
So you talk about progress, well yes the lorries, and their transmissions have progressed, but only because the drivers of the lorries went in the opposite direction
dri-diddly-iver:
Thank the willy wavers for progress eh
I take it you’re referring to me (among others) for my comments on the gearboxes of Eaton Fuller. Well my friend, I think you are jumping to conclusions there. I am, and always have been, a big advocate of automated manual transmissions and progress in general when it comes to lorries. I will add a disclaimer that I’m not a fan of technology for technology’s sake, but if it improves things, then I’m a fan. I have driven lorries for 25yrs and started out driving lorries that were 10yrs old or more, so I’ve had my fair share of old nails and even at my most nostalgic I would never take an older lorry over a brand new one with all the bells and whistles. I happen to think that the Scania 143-450 is the best lorry ever made, but I wouldn’t get out of a new R series to drive one. Nostalgia has a place and it isn’t at work
However, ■■■■ taking aside, the fact is a lot of drivers cannot use a constant mesh transmission, that is not good, they’re not rocket science, you just have to get the RPMs right and the shift will slip through like a knife through butter. Now where’s the hard work in that
A well timed gearchange in a Fuller Roadranger or Twin Splitter is far easier on the shoulder than any shift in a synchromesh transmission. Sure you can just dip the clutch and move the stick and the synchro rings do all the hard work for you, but that is not very professional is it Synchro rings will suffer premature wear if they’re working hard all the time, that’s adding complication, expense and weight to a component to overcome the shortcomings of drivers. The constant mesh gearbox on the other hand ensures that the driver is on top of their game all the time…or you end up playing tunes
Another thing to consider, is that all of the automated manual transmissions use constant mesh, because the computer is making the change, the RPMs are perfectly matched, so the synchro rings are unnecessary, so therefore the conclusion is that the only advantage of synchromesh transmissions is that they make bad drivers look good
So you talk about progress, well yes the lorries, and their transmissions have progressed, but only because the drivers of the lorries went in the opposite direction
^ +1
Or in the case of the Allison the design criteria went along the lines of let’s waste loads of valuable horsepower that we could be putting to work at the wheels to make up for those deficiencies of the licence holders.
The main reason for large fleets switching over to “Automatics” is that it’s easier than training drivers. They have come to the conclusion that, overall, they will obtain better fuel consumption by minimising the drivers input even though, as most probably know, an auto box is thirstier than a manual. Still, if they insist on paying peanuts…
Newmercman is spoton about synchromesh 'boxes making bad drivers look good; Our ex Workshop Manager gave a new Alpha (85 cab) to a driver who couldn’t grasp a crash box so much he wrecked 3 clutches in his first year. I would’ve just sacked him for stating on his application. Sadly the said WM had a habit of protecting the terminally useless.
44 Tonne Ton:
The main reason for large fleets switching over to “Automatics” is that it’s easier than training drivers. They have come to the conclusion that, overall, they will obtain better fuel consumption by minimising the drivers input even though, as most probably know, an auto box is thirstier than a manual. Still, if they insist on paying peanuts…
An automated manual probably wouldn’t have the type of fuel consumption penalty and power losses that an Allison type would because there’s a big difference between using a computer linked to the shift mechanism of an ordinary constant mesh box compared to a conventional torque converter and auto geartrain set up.
That’s totally correct it is just a manual box with a computer controlled shift. Where it will beat a driver on fuel economy is it doesn’t get tired fed up and get the hump and not drive as efficiently as they can.
As nmm says a fuller will be better to drive than any synchro box as the shift is so light and with the added bonus you don’t need to use the clutch once your moving.
Given the choice of any manual I’d choose a 13 speed fuller but im an auto convert now I love my Volvo with I shift.
IMO anyone who says your not a proper driver if you like auto you have never driven one or not a good enough driver to get the best out of it as even I shift which is probaly the best auto out there still needs help to get the best in certain situations.
What makes a good driver is getting the truck and cargo there and back in one peice.
I followed a Volvo FL 6w tipper demomstrator a few years back which had an Allison auto 'box: It died just looking at hills never mind climbing them. I think it was one of those lift axle FL6 abortions that looked like someone had cross bred a fire engine with an asphalt bodied tipper.
kr79:
That’s totally correct it is just a manual box with a computer controlled shift. Where it will beat a driver on fuel economy is it doesn’t get tired fed up and get the hump and not drive as efficiently as they can.
As nmm says a fuller will be better to drive than any synchro box as the shift is so light and with the added bonus you don’t need to use the clutch once your moving.
Given the choice of any manual I’d choose a 13 speed fuller but im an auto convert now I love my Volvo with I shift.
IMO anyone who says your not a proper driver if you like auto you have never driven one or not a good enough driver to get the best out of it as even I shift which is probaly the best auto out there still needs help to get the best in certain situations.
What makes a good driver is getting the truck and cargo there and back in one peice.
Muckaway:
Newmercman is spoton about synchromesh 'boxes making bad drivers look good; Our ex Workshop Manager gave a new Alpha (85 cab) to a driver who couldn’t grasp a crash box so much he wrecked 3 clutches in his first year. I would’ve just sacked him for stating on his application. Sadly the said WM had a habit of protecting the terminally useless.
An alpha with a crash box are you sure. I know some of the first on s reg had a twin splitter but Im sure they were only avalible with a 8 or 16 speed zf ecosplit. Or the eaton rtso 12 or 16 speed. I know lots of the 12 speeds used the roadranger stick with the three position switch but I’ve only ever seen synchro alphas.
Muckaway:
I’m going to refer a couple of “drivers” with us to this thread; To them, they think the Eaton range/splitter 12speed 'box is a twin split. When I tell them otherwise (and when Workshop Manager tells them we only had 2 on B and C regs) they act like we’re talking a foreign language…
I’m guessing you are talking about the eaton rtso gearbox. Fodens used it on the alpha and MAN used it on some f2000 models. Awful gearbox gave lots of trouble with synchs breaking up not a patch on zf ecosplit box
The Eaton 12spd I’ve got is still tight 7years on. They haven’t been great with us, many wagons having had the Eaton top switched for the Daf version. I think mine’s one of the only ones left, and why do the gears seem so far apart in comparisson to other manuals?
Muckaway:
Newmercman is spoton about synchromesh 'boxes making bad drivers look good; Our ex Workshop Manager gave a new Alpha (85 cab) to a driver who couldn’t grasp a crash box so much he wrecked 3 clutches in his first year. I would’ve just sacked him for stating on his application. Sadly the said WM had a habit of protecting the terminally useless.
An alpha with a crash box are you sure. I know some of the first on s reg had a twin splitter but Im sure they were only avalible with a 8 or 16 speed zf ecosplit. Or the eaton rtso 12 or 16 speed. I know lots of the 12 speeds used the roadranger stick with the three position switch but I’ve only ever seen synchro alphas.
Sorry, he started on an L reg 3325, couldn’t cope and got an N reg 3325. Still no improvement so got an 85 cabbed Alpha which was synchro as you said (12speed). Retired now thank God but was a ■■■■ poor driver 'til the day he finished.
Going back to original post, I hate it when someone assumes they’re a better driver just because they drive flatout everywhere, or cover their cabs in Truckfest crap.
[/
Gearbox Snobbery!! 
