Double post
Grandpa:
The SNP is another weird like political creation similar to the EU and totally at odds with reality. The SNP isn’t nationalist, it’s socialist. You can’t be a nationalist and want a proud independent country if having got it you then want to give away that independence to join a collectivized group of countries run by EU Commissioners who want to abolish your national sovereignty.
They know that they are Socialists masquerading as Nationalists because Socialism,being just another form of Federalism,is by definition based on anti nation state collectivism.Just like the 3rd Reich had nothing whatsoever to do with furthering the cause of the self determination of Europe’s nation states as expected of an agenda based on Bismark’s Federal ■■■■ pile and Hitler knew it.Which is why he didn’t call it the Nationalist Socialist Workers’ Party because the two descriptions are an oxymoron.It was the German Socialist Party out to create just another European Federal collective in the form of the 3rd Reich which by definition isn’t Nationalist.Which is also why the SNP isn’t called the Scottish Nationalist Party the ‘National’ descriptor is just a play on words to get a mug misled Nationalist vote for a Socialist agenda.Ironically just like the Conservative ‘Unionists’ by definition also being a collective agenda pretending Nationalism and self determination.Which Powell ran into.
Which leaves the fact that,like Ghandi,Shore,Benn and Heffer and even Scargill all Nationalists who just didn’t/don’t realise it and therefore the similar respective contradiction with Socialism which they ran into.
The fact is the reason for Juddian’s correct view,that they are all the same bunch of cretins,is because it’s an alliance of Federalist Socialist collectivism by definition with an abhorrence of the Nation State.
Carryfast:
Grandpa:
The SNP is another weird like political creation similar to the EU and totally at odds with reality. The SNP isn’t nationalist, it’s socialist. You can’t be a nationalist and want a proud independent country if having got it you then want to give away that independence to join a collectivized group of countries run by EU Commissioners who want to abolish your national sovereignty.They know that they are Socialists masquerading as Nationalists because Socialism,being just another form of Federalism,is by definition based on anti nation state collectivism.Just like the 3rd Reich had nothing whatsoever to do with furthering the cause of the self determination of Europe’s nation states as expected of an agenda based on Bismark’s Federal [zb] pile and Hitler knew it.Which is why he didn’t call it the Nationalist Socialist Workers’ Party because the two descriptions are an oxymoron.It was the German Socialist Party out to create just another European Federal collective in the form of the 3rd Reich which by definition isn’t Nationalist.Which is also why the SNP isn’t called the Scottish Nationalist Party the ‘National’ descriptor is just a play on words to get a mug misled Nationalist vote for a Socialist agenda.Ironically just like the Conservative ‘Unionists’ by definition also being a collective agenda pretending Nationalism and self determination.Which Powell ran into.
Which leaves the fact that,like Ghandi,Shore,Benn and Heffer and even Scargill all Nationalists who just didn’t/don’t realise it and therefore the similar respective contradiction with Socialism which they ran into.
The fact is the reason for Juddian’s correct view,that they are all the same bunch of cretins,is because it’s an alliance of Federalist Socialist collectivism by definition with an abhorrence of the Nation State.
Took me a few minutes to get my head around that and I know what you mean, but with all due respect, it took some doing. 
Nationalism is an ideology and socialist policies are economic, so it’s quite possible to have National Socialism, as previously in Germany. The idea of a political manifesto is to appeal to everyone from all walks of life, otherwise it becomes a fringe group. The National socialist German workers party (NSDAP) appealed to everyone, its title included German nationalism, socialism and the workers, a something for everyone to believe in party. Yet it’s also why the socialist brown shirts were quickly got rid of in Germany as the intention was always disguised nationalism, but equally, why the Scottish nationalists would eventually end up scratching their heads as they lost their independence by joining a collectivized EU.
As the SNP is about independence, it has to appeal to nationalists, whereas as the EU is about collectivization and that has to appeal to those seeking a union of states, leading to federalism. It always makes me smile when I see remainers with UK and EU flags. No country has two flags or two allegiances, it’s one or the other.
The coming election isn’t even about Brexit anymore. Vote for Boris and deals, Corbyn for a probable second referendum and the Libs to forget the referendum and stay in the EU. Whoever you vote for the best that will happen is we remain with one foot in the door. Politics is purposely designed to mislead and there’s no doubt given the age demographics, Britain will eventually become a fully-fledged member of the EU. We can only hope the EU collapses, as did the USSR, before we suffer the consequences and the aftermath of that collapse while we’re part of the union.
The nation state is an obsolete concept
The richest and most powerful societies/economies in the world today and going forward are the USA, China, the EU, India, Russia. What they have in common is that none of them are a nation state
Over the last few hundred years the dominant powers have been British empire, USA and USSR. None were a nation state
In ww2 the nationalist/fascist forces of Germany and Japan were inevitably defeated by a globalist alliance with vastly superior resources
The nation state, as a medival outdated concept in a globalised world, is finished
chrisdalott:
The nation state is an obsolete conceptThe richest and most powerful societies/economies in the world today and going forward are the USA, China, the EU, India, Russia. What they have in common is that none of them are a nation state
Over the last few hundred years the dominant powers have been British empire, USA and USSR. None were a nation state
In ww2 the nationalist/fascist forces of Germany and Japan were inevitably defeated by a globalist alliance with vastly superior resources
The nation state, as a medival outdated concept in a globalised world, is finished
That’s straight out of the EU propaganda textbook.
The US as a dominant power is declining, as is the EU. The rising powers are China, Russia and India, all nation states. The British Empire and the old USSR simply controlled others without losing their national identity.
Globalism is a relatively new concept and the idea that in times of economic decline countries are most likely to weather the storm when they collectivize. The EU has proved that’s not the case, as did the USSR. It’s true to say that the nation state has no place in a globalized west, but that’s only if you believe the loss of the nation state doesn’t matter. It does, which is why the backlash now occurring in Europe as several countries battle to keep their independence by refusing to join in with mass-immigration quotas, building fences and refusing to give up their national identity.
Europe is a location, a continent, it is not a national identity and that’s why the EU project had to be socially engineered through political pacts and treaties. People go to war to preserve their national identity and culture, they do not give it up easily. The Russians tried to Russify and abolish national identity in their satellite countries for decades through force, but the first chance they got those countries broke away to regain their national identity, religion and culture. The US made the same mistake recently when they tried to bring democracy to Muslim countries – it didn’t work then either.
Globalism, or the removal of national identity has never worked anywhere in history it has been tried.
Grandpa:
chrisdalott:
The nation state is an obsolete conceptThe richest and most powerful societies/economies in the world today and going forward are the USA, China, the EU, India, Russia. What they have in common is that none of them are a nation state
Over the last few hundred years the dominant powers have been British empire, USA and USSR. None were a nation state
In ww2 the nationalist/fascist forces of Germany and Japan were inevitably defeated by a globalist alliance with vastly superior resources
The nation state, as a medival outdated concept in a globalised world, is finished
That’s straight out of the EU propaganda textbook.
The US as a dominant power is declining, as is the EU. The rising powers are China, Russia and India, all nation states. The British Empire and the old USSR simply controlled others without losing their national identity.
Globalism is a relatively new concept and the idea that in times of economic decline countries are most likely to weather the storm when they collectivize. The EU has proved that’s not the case, as did the USSR. It’s true to say that the nation state has no place in a globalized west, but that’s only if you believe the loss of the nation state doesn’t matter. It does, which is why the backlash now occurring in Europe as several countries battle to keep their independence by refusing to join in with mass-immigration quotas, building fences and refusing to give up their national identity.
Europe is a location, a continent, it is not a national identity and that’s why the EU project had to be socially engineered through political pacts and treaties. People go to war to preserve their national identity and culture, they do not give it up easily. The Russians tried to Russify and abolish national identity in their satellite countries for decades through force, but the first chance they got those countries broke away to regain their national identity, religion and culture. The US made the same mistake recently when they tried to bring democracy and cultural change to Muslim countries – it didn’t work then either.
Globalism, or the removal of national identity has never worked anywhere in history it has been tried.
Grandpa:
Carryfast:
Grandpa:
The SNP is another weird like political creation similar to the EU and totally at odds with reality. The SNP isn’t nationalist, it’s socialist. You can’t be a nationalist and want a proud independent country if having got it you then want to give away that independence to join a collectivized group of countries run by EU Commissioners who want to abolish your national sovereignty.They know that they are Socialists masquerading as Nationalists because Socialism,being just another form of Federalism,is by definition based on anti nation state collectivism.Just like the 3rd Reich had nothing whatsoever to do with furthering the cause of the self determination of Europe’s nation states as expected of an agenda based on Bismark’s Federal [zb] pile and Hitler knew it.Which is why he didn’t call it the Nationalist Socialist Workers’ Party because the two descriptions are an oxymoron.It was the German Socialist Party out to create just another European Federal collective in the form of the 3rd Reich which by definition isn’t Nationalist.Which is also why the SNP isn’t called the Scottish Nationalist Party the ‘National’ descriptor is just a play on words to get a mug misled Nationalist vote for a Socialist agenda.Ironically just like the Conservative ‘Unionists’ by definition also being a collective agenda pretending Nationalism and self determination.Which Powell ran into.
Which leaves the fact that,like Ghandi,Shore,Benn and Heffer and even Scargill all Nationalists who just didn’t/don’t realise it and therefore the similar respective contradiction with Socialism which they ran into.
The fact is the reason for Juddian’s correct view,that they are all the same bunch of cretins,is because it’s an alliance of Federalist Socialist collectivism by definition with an abhorrence of the Nation State.
Took me a few minutes to get my head around that and I know what you mean, but with all due respect, it took some doing.
Nationalism is an ideology and socialist policies are economic, so it’s quite possible to have National Socialism, as previously in Germany. The idea of a political manifesto is to appeal to everyone from all walks of life, otherwise it becomes a fringe group. The National socialist German workers party (NSDAP) appealed to everyone, its title included German nationalism, socialism and the workers, a something for everyone to believe in party. Yet it’s also why the socialist brown shirts were quickly got rid of in Germany as the intention was always disguised nationalism, but equally, why the Scottish nationalists would eventually end up scratching their heads as they lost their independence by joining a collectivized EU.
As the SNP is about independence, it has to appeal to nationalists, whereas as the EU is about collectivization and that has to appeal to those seeking a union of states, leading to federalism. It always makes me smile when I see remainers with UK and EU flags. No country has two flags or two allegiances, it’s one or the other.
The coming election isn’t even about Brexit anymore. Vote for Boris and deals, Corbyn for a probable second referendum and the Libs to forget the referendum and stay in the EU. Whoever you vote for the best that will happen is we remain with one foot in the door. Politics is purposely designed to mislead and there’s no doubt given the age demographics, Britain will eventually become a fully-fledged member of the EU. We can only hope the EU collapses, as did the USSR, before we suffer the consequences and the aftermath of that collapse while we’re part of the union.
Socialism/Federalism are all a play on Collectivism and the Collective which includes both political ‘and’ economic ‘union’.Whether it’s the Soviet Union,German Federation/Reich in all its forms,or Yugoslav Federation,or USA or the EU or UK rule.While it’s obvious that the 3rd Reich by definition couldn’t possibly be ‘Nationalist’ because it was all about the removal of Europe’s National borders including Germany’s,let alone the sovereign states which made up ‘Germany’ before 1871.Sooner or later someone like Ghandi or Michael Collins comes along and either succeeds of fails in smashing that idea of the Collective.
Nationalists aren’t in the business of removing National borders and the right to self determination.On that note Hitler was a pure Socialist nothing more nothing less.Who like so many others including Stalin found himself naturally allied with German Federalism.Just like Sturgeon and Corbyn.
alamy.com/stock-photo-czecho … 08777.html
Don’t you think that any true Nationalist worthy of the name would have been asking themselves here if we are supposedly ‘Nationalists’ why are we tearing down our own National borders. 
The EU merely wants to carry on being the 4th Reich.
Germany - as the world’s 4th superpower in place at this time.
That’s it.
Perhaps they feel that as an officially recognized superpower that they, too - can go up against the other three…
Well good luck with that!
If we were to label the greatest sins of the other three “superpowers”…
It would have to be
The Black Ops of Russia
“American Impunity” with regards to the 2nd ammendment
“Social Scoring” of China.
Of the now-gone British Empire - it was probably “Gunboat Diplomacy” where all a country had to do to firmly stay as “Third World” - was “refuse to trade with the Empire upon which the sun never sets”. Client Kingdoms - historically did better than those that refused to sign up to Pax Britannica in the FIRST place.
What’s the EU’s “Greatest Sin” going to be then?
“Anti Democratic” masquerading under the illusion of “still having a vote, and thereby pretence of democracy”.
chrisdalott:
The nation state is an obsolete conceptThe richest and most powerful societies/economies in the world today and going forward are the USA, China, the EU, India, Russia. What they have in common is that none of them are a nation state
Over the last few hundred years the dominant powers have been British empire, USA and USSR. None were a nation state
In ww2 the nationalist/fascist forces of Germany and Japan were inevitably defeated by a globalist alliance with vastly superior resources
The nation state, as a medival outdated concept in a globalised world, is finished
So you’re just a dictatorial Globalist like all the other wanna rule the world despots through history.
Feel free to explain the difference between the Soviet Union v Russia.While you obviously don’t see the irony in you calling the German Federation ‘Nationalist’ and the US Federation as not a Nation when Federalism is just an extreme corrupted beyond all repair form of false Nationalism in itself in all cases.Hence the US oath One Nation under God Indivisible.As any Secessionist Confederate Soldier could have told you.
Ironically you’re actually promoting a Fascist collectivism agenda that any Soviet or ■■■■ soldier would have understood as they both invaded Poland.The Nazis weren’t Nationalists.Michael Collins was a Nationalist not Hitler.You know the same Michael Collins who defeated the so called UK and its ‘Empire’.
^ The EUs greatest sin? Trying to socially engineer societies and disregarding the recent historical lessons learned by China, Russia and Germany that it doesn’t work.
You can see the rising discontent; currently the Gilets jaunes in France and PEGIDA in Germany and previously Golden Dawn in Greece and even our own Brexit. There’s a huge backlash against the globalists. There will never be 100% agreement across the board on anything, but when you take democracy away and the right of people to self-determine their future, it has always ended in mass civil disobedience, violence and eventual collapse.
The British Empire eventually fell apart, so did the USSR and the US found itself bogged down in countless wars which ended in social anarchy and terrorism as populations started to fight back against rule by others.
You can’t take a country’s independence and culture away from it, or nationality from its people … It simply doesn’t work. Nearly four centuries ago, Britain fought a bloody civil war to stop the absolute rule by monarchies. Why would it now want to exchange that for absolute rule from Brussels? After decades of promises from the EU, has life got any better except for the elite?
Globalism is the updated form of rule by the political, banking and corporate elites and over the years and especially amongst the young the EU have managed to convince them that absolute rule by a few Commissioners from Brussels is different from absolute rule by a few monarchs.
Grandpa:
The British Empire eventually fell apart, so did the USSR and the US found itself bogged down in countless wars
Ironically the US is to this day only held together by anti Secession laws backed by the threat of Federal Aggression.Which it imposed since 1861 at the cost of 7 million lives proportionally by today’s figures.
Carryfast:
Grandpa:
The British Empire eventually fell apart, so did the USSR and the US found itself bogged down in countless warsIronically the US is to this day only held together by anti Secession laws backed by the threat of Federal Aggression.Which it imposed since 1861 at the cost of 7 million lives proportionally by today’s figures.
But moving on into the present and whilst acknowledging propaganda and indoctrination, why do people in an age where information is at everyone’s fingertips fall for this globalization and one world government nonsense? It’s not as though the EU has discovered anything new. China and Russia both went through the same collectivization and it’s why they’re now keeping the west at arms-length. After the collapse of the USSR, the Russians elected Putin, a nationalist. Same in China, after Mao’s death in the 70s, China reversed all his policies, went economic capitalist and boomed. America also went through a love affair with Obama and the left, but after two terms saw the decline and voted the ideas out. You can’t vote out the EU once you’re in and if we start to do deals which leaves us with one foot in the EU we’re stuck with it to the bitter end.
In a coming recession the whole of Europe collapses because of equality. Everyone has to come out of a recession together, or not at all. In previous recessions we were able to find solutions to problems, find alternative trading partners, but we’re now economically linked to weak former Eastern Block economies with someone else telling us how we’ll proceed and not to our own advantage. If we stay in the EU the next recession is going to be terrible, because we won’t be able to get out of it and will end up at the bottom with everyone else.
Let’s just explain the difference between patriotism and nationalism. Patriotism is a love of one’s country, whilst nationalism goes further and promotes that country above others. Hitler was both anti-capitalist and a nationalist who saw Germany above all others and used socialism to collectivize both the economy and people. So he was nationalist by ideology and a socialist by economics. The clue is in the title, National Socialism. The state came before the people. On the other hand, the EU sees all people and countries as equal, which comes as near to communism as it’s possible to get without using the term. Using ideologies, the EU is often referred to as communitarianism.
There is also another distinction between socialism and socialist. Socialism occurs in all modern societies and is money used by wealth creation through taxation to provide schools, the police, roads … While socialist policies assume that if a government can provide necessities, it can also equally regulate society for the benefit of all and why Lenin made the now famous remark that socialism is the stepping stone to communism. As communism was always a dictatorship by the elite, it’s why the EU is now often referred to as the EUSSR.
In recessions and during periods of economic chaos, or wars, this provides an ideal breeding ground for extremes. It’s not a coincidence that the USSR arose after WW1, or China went communist after WW2. It’s also not a surprise either that the socialist EU began to appeal too many after the 2008 recession in which the greed of laissez-faire capitalism showed itself. The alternative of the collectivization of people or economies has a serious history of failure, it’s never worked anywhere it has been tried and the EU will be no different.
Anyone else bored with all these copy and paste posts?
Darkside:
Anyone else bored with all these copy and paste posts?
Doom and gloomers party they should form a party and sort the world out
The world is round everything comes and goes in circles tec changes but the basic stuff is circles
That’s why people keep on voting every time for the same party never changes
And then the crap starts all over again
Darkside:
Anyone else bored with all these copy and paste posts?
^^^^^^^^^^^^
i was hoping that carryfast and grandpa would just keep flogging each other to death frantically copying and pasting to achieve victory with that famous last word.
the “newbie” grandad is an instant contender for the carryfast clone of the year award so best to just glance down through the topic to see someone elses reply .
now that winseer has popped up then itl just waffle away into another political infinity (again(…
dieseldog999:
Darkside:
Anyone else bored with all these copy and paste posts?^^^^^^^^^^^^
i was hoping that carryfast and grandpa would just keep flogging each other to death frantically copying and pasting to achieve victory with that famous last word.
the “newbie” grandad is an instant contender for the carryfast clone of the year award so best to just glance down through the topic to see someone elses reply .
now that winseer has popped up then itl just waffle away into another political infinity (again(…
I wonder if anyone other than them ever reads any of their posts? The funny thing is, if you engage (mistakenly obviously) with Carryfast he resorts to name calling, grandad just ignores it and keeps on pasting more paragraphs of rubbish that has all been proved wrong many times.
Darkside:
dieseldog999:
Darkside:
Anyone else bored with all these copy and paste posts?^^^^^^^^^^^^
i was hoping that carryfast and grandpa would just keep flogging each other to death frantically copying and pasting to achieve victory with that famous last word.
the “newbie” grandad is an instant contender for the carryfast clone of the year award so best to just glance down through the topic to see someone elses reply .
now that winseer has popped up then itl just waffle away into another political infinity (again(…I wonder if anyone other than them ever reads any of their posts? The funny thing is, if you engage (mistakenly obviously) with Carryfast he resorts to name calling, grandad just ignores it and keeps on pasting more paragraphs of rubbish that has all been proved wrong many times.
Well I for one am pleased they found each other, maybe a new subforum should be set up just for them! Though I’m still not 100% convinced they are different people
The style is reminiscent of the history supply teacher who thinks they can take over a maths class. Flailing around in a poorly understood subject, and trying to front it out authoritivy, whilst the pupils just roll their eyes.
Grandpa:
Let’s just explain the difference between patriotism and nationalism. Patriotism is a love of one’s country, whilst nationalism goes further and promotes that country above others. Hitler was both anti-capitalist and a nationalist who saw Germany
The German Federation and the 3rd Reich as part of that and Nationalist is an oxymoron.Maintaining the previous pre Bismark 1871 status quo would be Nationalist.While Germany let alone the 3rd Reich were all Federalist agendas.
While you can’t possibly be Nationalist if you just want to be the self appointed ruler of a Federal Reich.Nationalism by definition means the recognition of the self determination and National borders of others or you don’t have borders then countries then patriotism.