Is the logistics sector/economy slowly collapsing?

UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUMS THE UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUM (INTERACTIVE)
81

Franglais:

del trotter:

Grandpa:

Give up Franglais. Around 70/80% of fish consumed in the UK is imported (seafish.org). We export certain types of premium fish to wealthier countries because people here couldn’t afford to buy. On an island surrounded by the sea, we have to import fish?

Once again complete nonsense, we export the majority of fish/shellfish caught in the UK because there is no market for it in the UK, nothing to do with price ,same reason for why we import 70/80% of the fish we eat, Cod,Warmwater Prawns, Tuna, Basa (all unable to survive in UK coastal waters), UK consumers don’t want the vast majority of the fish caught here, most don’t even want fish.
Specialist fish such as John Dory, Monkfish etc caught by smaller boats off Devon and Cornwall is snapped up by high end UK restaurants.

To be fair to him. It’s not complete nonsense.
When GrandPa says that we “are on an island surrounded by sea” he seems to have a point.
[/quote]
It’s only nonsense if you believe we still have a fishing industry left. We suddenly decided we didn’t want to eat certain kinds of fish in the UK? When did that happen? Again, look at what the few fishermen left are telling you, not what you believe. That also applies to mining, the car industry, steel, cotton. It’s all gone. Look at the transport industry going under …

Just spend 15 minutes watching the reality in these two videos, instead of listening to the politicians. Are we really a booming economy? Is everyone happily plodding along? Why do you think 16+ million vote for Brexit? Granted, not all the fault of the EU, but if you think the EU gives a toss except to equalize everyone to the lowest common denominator, you’re simply wrong.

82

Mr Farage was in a position to fight the corner for the UK fishing industry, because he was the UK rep on the EU fishing committee. Sadly, he only turned up once. I expect the bar was open, or something.

But crewing a fishing boat is a horrible job. IIRC the boat owner got 50% of the take, the skipper 25%, and the remaining 25% split up between the crew. No catchee fishee, no takee money homeee.

The big money was in Icelandic waters, but the UK was kicked off for overfishing before joining the Common Market.

I’ve met several ex-fishermen who went lorry-driving instead.

83

Grandpa:

Franglais:

del trotter:

Grandpa:

Give up Franglais. Around 70/80% of fish consumed in the UK is imported (seafish.org). We export certain types of premium fish to wealthier countries because people here couldn’t afford to buy. On an island surrounded by the sea, we have to import fish?

Once again complete nonsense, we export the majority of fish/shellfish caught in the UK because there is no market for it in the UK, nothing to do with price ,same reason for why we import 70/80% of the fish we eat, Cod,Warmwater Prawns, Tuna, Basa (all unable to survive in UK coastal waters), UK consumers don’t want the vast majority of the fish caught here, most don’t even want fish.
Specialist fish such as John Dory, Monkfish etc caught by smaller boats off Devon and Cornwall is snapped up by high end UK restaurants.

To be fair to him. It’s not complete nonsense.
When GrandPa says that we “are on an island surrounded by sea” he seems to have a point.

It’s only nonsense if you believe we still have a fishing industry left. We suddenly decided we didn’t want to eat certain kinds of fish in the UK? When did that happen? Again, look at what the few fishermen left are telling you, not what you believe. That also applies to mining, the car industry, steel, cotton. It’s all gone. Look at the transport industry going under …

Just spend 15 minutes watching the reality in these two videos, instead of listening to the politicians. Are we really a booming economy? Is everyone happily plodding along? Why do you think 16+ million vote for Brexit? Granted, not all the fault of the EU, but if you think the EU gives a toss except to equalize everyone to the lowest common denominator, you’re simply wrong.

[/quote]
Those YouTube videos are not professional politicians, it’s true.
But both are produced by political pressure groups, and are only of one point of view in the issue. They aren’t (and don’t pretend to be) unbiased.
.
You can suggest that those in the sharp end of an industry have expertise?
Couldn’t we make a similar type of video about the transport industry?
A video made by you, and a video made by me, both of us selecting our interviewees carefully might present different pictures to an audience.
YouTube can be useful in education and news distribution. It can also be a useful propaganda tool, and disseminate falsehoods efficiently.

84

It’s only nonsense if you believe we still have a fishing industry left. We suddenly decided we didn’t want to eat certain kinds of fish in the UK? When did that happen?

We’ve always liked Icelandic cod, we’ve used to eat herring, but it’s too boney for modern tastes. Kippers used to be a breakfast dish. Mackrell, lovely but English people don’t eat it because it’s brown (dirty!). Scottish fishermen used to catch Langoustine Prawns as a by-catch and send them to Melton Mowbray to be made into cat food! The UK joining the EU meant it was worth investing in fridge lorries and exporting them fresh to mainland Europe where they fetch premium prices…or did…Brexit may well knock that nice little earner on the head and put a few more fishermen on the dole.

That also applies to mining, the car industry, steel, cotton. It’s all gone. Look at the transport industry going under …

UK mining has been in trouble for most of the 20th century, if not before, as most of the ‘easy seams’ were worked out very early on. The Cornish were arguably the first people in the world to deep mine, and they certainly taught the rest of the world how to do it (the ‘Cousin Jacks’ who went overseas).
What Cousin Jack found was that mining was relatively easy in the rest of the world compared to the tortured geology of Cornwall, so coal, minerals etc could be extracted at lower cost.

Cars, well the UK was a major European centre for car production until Brexit cast a shadow. Sadly, people were told nonsense like this by Brexiteers thesun.co.uk/news/1792793/j … ent-boost/

Steel? Again UK supplies of iron ore exhausted a long time ago. Remember the Corby dragline? Ironically, we now make more steel in Sheffield than we ever did, but employing less people. It’s made out of scrap steel! We could make more, but this would mean more investment in expensive electric-arc furnaces, so instead we export scrap steel to China. UK private investors put money into unproductive property when they could buy shares in industry. That’s our choice.

Cotton: only viable fo the UK if the raw material can come cheap from abroad. ‘Abroad’ now has the wit to process it themselves, and make it into finished garments. Strangely, the Indians knew how to do this before the British stopped them.

With the exception of cars, which have gone down the plug post-Brexit and for a variety of reasons, all the industries mentioned were struggling long before the UK joined the EU. In some cases they were struggling before WW2. If you think Brexit will return us to some (imagined) ideal past, I fear you may be disappointed.

85

The forum is about trucking, but as the EU is political and we’re all of us affected by it, let’s give a brief political outline. For centuries Britain kept itself at a distance from the various European ‘projects.’ From the Paris communes to Napoleon and onto communism, Nazism, Fascism, Anarchism … We kept our distance and only went in to clean up the resulting mess. The EU is simply another European utopian project with a different coloured flag, but the same promises and aims.

What you’re seeing is the EU dissolve into something called progressivism. This is a late 19th century American ideology which was popular in the early 20th century. It’s the rule by an elite and if you look closely at the EU and who its run by, you’ll no doubt see the politicians, bankers and corporations have got it sewn up. You’ll often hear politicians talking about progressive ideas, yet what they’re hoping for is that people mistake it for progress, which is something else entirely. Progressivism as practiced in the American model is the extreme form, but the anti-democracy and elitist content is already visible in the EU and in the British parliament where the politicians recently decided the in/out Brexit referendum didn’t count.

This is progressivism. https://hubpages.com/politics/The-Progressive-Movement

This is what we’re heading back to; a form of elitist rule and in the EU, a benevolent form of dictatorship. It’s now no longer a matter of in or out of the EU, there is no longer a vote that guarantees out and so now the political elite have control and it was all done without a shot being fired in anger.

The good news is that EU member countries already shows signs of dissent. Merkel herself has said that multiculturalism doesn’t work, Poland is refusing EU mass migration quotas and several countries are building fences around their borders, notably Hungary and Greece.

A little different from trucking, but if you understand the political coup, you’ll also understand there aren’t happy times ahead. Brexit doesn’t promise a return to a golden age, it promises the opportunity to get rid of those that we vote in and the alternative is to stay in the EU and become the type of satellites of another authoritarian anti-democratic power, much like the Eastern Block countries did for 40+ years. None of these European projects succeeded and the EU will be no different. If the political elite force Britain to remain in the EU there will never be another referendum.

86

Those YouTube videos are not professional politicians, it’s true.
But both are produced by political pressure groups, and are only of one point of view in the issue. They aren’t (and don’t pretend to be) unbiased.
.
You can suggest that those in the sharp end of an industry have expertise?
Couldn’t we make a similar type of video about the transport industry?
A video made by you, and a video made by me, both of us selecting our interviewees carefully might present different pictures to an audience.
YouTube can be useful in education and news distribution. It can also be a useful propaganda tool, and disseminate falsehoods efficiently.

They’re part of a documentary. If there was another side to the story they would have to mention that. Are you saying there is a thriving fishing industry? If not, how could you put forward a case that there is? Bias only enters if there is another side to it. How would you make an unbiased documentary explaining why the transport industry is in good shape when all the evidence suggests it isn’t?

87

Tonight I start a two night induction in a recession proof occupation, also subject to a probationary period, so not guaranteed, but probable. O/T after 38½ hours, average 50/55 hours a week, including night/day/weekend call out, but a one minute walk from where I live. It’s not driving, but why would I not take that? Of course, it’s nowhere near the HGV rates now being offered in the run up to Christmas, but those are seasonal rates and its back to the £10/11 an hour after that and for a grueling work life. That won’t get better, it will get worse and for the one’s now cheering on the gig economy – you go and do it! :slight_smile:
[/quote]
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
are you training to be an undertaker driving a hearse cos by the way your flogging this to death then your killing everyone else with chronic boredom… :unamused:

88

dieseldog999:
Tonight I start a two night induction in a recession proof occupation, also subject to a probationary period, so not guaranteed, but probable. O/T after 38½ hours, average 50/55 hours a week, including night/day/weekend call out, but a one minute walk from where I live. It’s not driving, but why would I not take that? Of course, it’s nowhere near the HGV rates now being offered in the run up to Christmas, but those are seasonal rates and its back to the £10/11 an hour after that and for a grueling work life. That won’t get better, it will get worse and for the one’s now cheering on the gig economy – you go and do it! :slight_smile:

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
are you training to be an undertaker driving a hearse cos by the way your flogging this to death then your killing everyone else with chronic boredom… :unamused:
[/quote]
Is that why you keep coming back to post, or is it masochism? :laughing:

89

Grandpa:

dieseldog999:
Tonight I start a two night induction in a recession proof occupation, also subject to a probationary period, so not guaranteed, but probable. O/T after 38½ hours, average 50/55 hours a week, including night/day/weekend call out, but a one minute walk from where I live. It’s not driving, but why would I not take that? Of course, it’s nowhere near the HGV rates now being offered in the run up to Christmas, but those are seasonal rates and its back to the £10/11 an hour after that and for a grueling work life. That won’t get better, it will get worse and for the one’s now cheering on the gig economy – you go and do it! :slight_smile:

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
are you training to be an undertaker driving a hearse cos by the way your flogging this to death then your killing everyone else with chronic boredom… :unamused:

Is that why you keep coming back to post, or is it masochism? :laughing:
[/quote]
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
to be honest almost since you invented yourself in here and instantly became carryfast personified then similar to my reading his posts,i just skip through yours as they are just brain numbing waffle.
if it wasnt for the occasional interaction by other parties,then in an ideal world you and carryfast could just slog away having the last word similar to an unstoppable force meeting the immovable object leaving the other posts free from said pedantic flogging.

90

Some companies seem to think there’s money in Logistics;

Muller/Culina are buying other transport companies.
Turners are buying.
Kinaxa are buying.
Lineage are buying.
Emvest (?) NFT are buying.
Wincanton are thinking about buying.

Not saying they are paying good wages, but there does seem to be a bit of consolidation going on.

91

Carryfast:

del trotter:

Grandpa:
We export certain types of premium fish to wealthier countries because people here couldn’t afford to buy. On an island surrounded by the sea, we have to import fish?

Once again complete nonsense, we export the majority of fish/shellfish caught in the UK because there is no market for it in the UK, nothing to do with price ,same reason for why we import 70/80% of the fish we eat, Cod,Warmwater Prawns, Tuna, Basa (all unable to survive in UK coastal waters), UK consumers don’t want the vast majority of the fish caught here, most don’t even want fish.
Specialist fish such as John Dory, Monkfish etc caught by smaller boats off Devon and Cornwall is snapped up by high end UK restaurants.

Bs.The North Sea was the go to area for Cod together with Iceland and Grand Banks.We were kicked out of the latter two and then to add insult to injury our North Sea territorial waters were opened up to foreign fleets decimating stocks.

While try to find Turbot anywhere for sale.The local fishmonger will only sell a whole fish not single fillets and the last place I could find it ( M and S ) stopped stocking it for some reason.Although can still get excellent Norwegian Cod there.So why do we have to import Cod from Norway ?.

Not BS, next to no cod left in the North Sea.

theguardian.com/business/20 … ble-stocks

Cod from Norway is caught in the Barents Sea not the North Sea.

92

del trotter:

Carryfast:

del trotter:
Once again complete nonsense, we export the majority of fish/shellfish caught in the UK because there is no market for it in the UK, nothing to do with price ,same reason for why we import 70/80% of the fish we eat, Cod,Warmwater Prawns, Tuna, Basa ( all unable to survive in UK coastal waters), UK consumers don’t want the vast majority of the fish caught here, most don’t even want fish.
Specialist fish such as John Dory, Monkfish etc caught by smaller boats off Devon and Cornwall is snapped up by high end UK restaurants.

Bs.The North Sea was the go to area for Cod together with Iceland and Grand Banks.We were kicked out of the latter two and then to add insult to injury our North Sea territorial waters were opened up to foreign fleets decimating stocks.

While try to find Turbot anywhere for sale.The local fishmonger will only sell a whole fish not single fillets and the last place I could find it ( M and S ) stopped stocking it for some reason.Although can still get excellent Norwegian Cod there.So why do we have to import Cod from Norway ?.

Not BS, next to no cod left in the North Sea.

theguardian.com/business/20 … ble-stocks

Cod from Norway is caught in the Barents Sea not the North Sea.

But obviously did ‘survive’ there and still do.But equally obviously over fished since opening our fishing territory to Euro fishing fleets.Remind us what changed in the ‘early 1970’s’ as opposed to the 1960’s.While either way our food reserves are being plundered to feed Euroland.All based on a premise by the Socialist zbwits that what’s ours belongs to everyone.While what’s Canada’s and Iceland’s if not also Norway’s belongs to Canada and Iceland if not also Norway.

93

Juddian:
Successive electorates voted overwhelmingly for the 2.5 parties, who once again are bribing the same electorate with trinkets, who once again will put the same charlatans back in the commons, and wonder why nothing’s changed, turkeys Christmas.

We deserve to get shafted, no matter how many times they prove themselves unfit to rule we keep voting them back in, it’s been going on for decades and i can’t see it changing any time soon.
Keep doing the same thing and expecting a different result, a sure definition of lunacy, the country is certifiable.

The country will change dramatically, within 20 years it will be unrecognisable from now, just as it is today compared with 20 years ago, because the electorate continue to believe those who have proved themselves untrustworthy every time, we’ve got election manifestos published once again, why would anyone believe a single word written within? they were all elected last time on enacting the will of the people manifestos, completely discredited yet people still believe, are they putting something in the water to make the population compliant or what?

Ironically the only parties telling the truth are the Libs and Wee Jimmie Krankie’s mob, they intend to completely destroy Brexit, just like the cons and labour intend, but to their credit the libs and jocks are straight about their anti democracy.

The ‘Jocks’ as you put it are not telling the truth. The SNP clearly manage to fool the BBC and others about ‘Scotland’. The NHS is in dire straits up here, worse than England, the roads are shocking, we still have this stupid 40mph b0110cks and constant constant whinging about Britain this, Boris that, Brexit this, Tories that. The SNP is the Scottish ■■■■ Party or the Scottish Nasty Party - take your pick - of deluded individuals and their heather coloured spectacles. Once led by a former leader currently due to stand trial on multiple ■■■■■■ and ■■■■ allegations and now by another deluded woman who has at least sussed out Mad Red Jezza and is offering her ‘support’ in exchange for leaving Faslane and taking the nuke boats away. If they were so wonderful why don’t they just run their country properly? They are an utter shower of power crazed nutters who bang on about independence. They only want to be in the EU because it gives them money!

Scotland is in a hell of a state, largely because it has no middle class and the SNP are in essence Socialist anyway. If they ever got independence it would be a basket case because it would need to be high taxed in order to meet the vast social policies. They’d be a hard border with England and prices would sky rocket as would unemployment. If they concentrated on getting their own country straight first they’d be more respect for them. All of the country’s ills are blamed on the English blah de blah de blah. They are Britain’s whingers.

Fact: Whenever someone allegedly commits a crime the person on BBC news is always referred to as coming from Dundee, Glasgow or wherever they are from - unless they are English. Then it is never Manchester or London or whatever town but always ‘south of the border’.

94

Grandpa:

Those YouTube videos are not professional politicians, it’s true.
But both are produced by political pressure groups, and are only of one point of view in the issue. They aren’t (and don’t pretend to be) unbiased.
.
You can suggest that those in the sharp end of an industry have expertise?
Couldn’t we make a similar type of video about the transport industry?
A video made by you, and a video made by me, both of us selecting our interviewees carefully might present different pictures to an audience.
YouTube can be useful in education and news distribution. It can also be a useful propaganda tool, and disseminate falsehoods efficiently.

They’re part of a documentary. If there was another side to the story they would have to mention that. Are you saying there is a thriving fishing industry? If not, how could you put forward a case that there is? Bias only enters if there is another side to it. How would you make an unbiased documentary explaining why the transport industry is in good shape when all the evidence suggests it isn’t?

Wiki:
“Brexit the movie is a 2016 propaganda film…”
But anyone with half a brain, could work that out for themselves.
You’ll be saying next that the Conservative HQ Twitter account is an unbiased fact-checker!

Edit to add.
And no one has said the UK has a thriving fishing industry.

95

Sand Fisher:

Juddian:
Successive electorates voted overwhelmingly for the 2.5 parties, who once again are bribing the same electorate with trinkets, who once again will put the same charlatans back in the commons, and wonder why nothing’s changed, turkeys Christmas.

We deserve to get shafted, no matter how many times they prove themselves unfit to rule we keep voting them back in, it’s been going on for decades and i can’t see it changing any time soon.
Keep doing the same thing and expecting a different result, a sure definition of lunacy, the country is certifiable.

The country will change dramatically, within 20 years it will be unrecognisable from now, just as it is today compared with 20 years ago, because the electorate continue to believe those who have proved themselves untrustworthy every time, we’ve got election manifestos published once again, why would anyone believe a single word written within? they were all elected last time on enacting the will of the people manifestos, completely discredited yet people still believe, are they putting something in the water to make the population compliant or what?

Ironically the only parties telling the truth are the Libs and Wee Jimmie Krankie’s mob, they intend to completely destroy Brexit, just like the cons and labour intend, but to their credit the libs and jocks are straight about their anti democracy.

The ‘Jocks’ as you put it are not telling the truth. The SNP clearly manage to fool the BBC and others about ‘Scotland’. The NHS is in dire straits up here, worse than England, the roads are shocking, we still have this stupid 40mph b0110cks and constant constant whinging about Britain this, Boris that, Brexit this, Tories that. The SNP is the Scottish ■■■■ Party or the Scottish Nasty Party - take your pick - of deluded individuals and their heather coloured spectacles. Once led by a former leader currently due to stand trial on multiple ■■■■■■ and ■■■■ allegations and now by another deluded woman who has at least sussed out Mad Red Jezza and is offering her ‘support’ in exchange for leaving Faslane and taking the nuke boats away. If they were so wonderful why don’t they just run their country properly? They are an utter shower of power crazed nutters who bang on about independence. They only want to be in the EU because it gives them money!

Scotland is in a hell of a state, largely because it has no middle class and the SNP are in essence Socialist anyway. If they ever got independence it would be a basket case because it would need to be high taxed in order to meet the vast social policies. They’d be a hard border with England and prices would sky rocket as would unemployment. If they concentrated on getting their own country straight first they’d be more respect for them. All of the country’s ills are blamed on the English blah de blah de blah. They are Britain’s whingers.

Fact: Whenever someone allegedly commits a crime the person on BBC news is always referred to as coming from Dundee, Glasgow or wherever they are from - unless they are English. Then it is never Manchester or London or whatever town but always ‘south of the border’.

You are against the idea of high tax/high welfare then?
What is it about this “Scandinavian mode*l” you dislike so much?

Edit
*cue comments on Larssen YouTube
Her…eyelashes…are more believable than GrandPa’s vid.!

96

Under the Boris deal, no change in EU fising rights, it seems

uk.news.yahoo.com/brussels-hit- … 12079.html

97

Franglais:

Grandpa:

Those YouTube videos are not professional politicians, it’s true.
But both are produced by political pressure groups, and are only of one point of view in the issue. They aren’t (and don’t pretend to be) unbiased.
.
You can suggest that those in the sharp end of an industry have expertise?
Couldn’t we make a similar type of video about the transport industry?
A video made by you, and a video made by me, both of us selecting our interviewees carefully might present different pictures to an audience.
YouTube can be useful in education and news distribution. It can also be a useful propaganda tool, and disseminate falsehoods efficiently.

“Brexit the movie is a 2016 propaganda film…”
But anyone with half a brain, could work that out for themselves.
You’ll be saying next that the Conservative HQ Twitter account is an unbiased fact-checker!

Edit to add.
And no one has said the UK has a thriving fishing industry.

Would you like to dispute the documentary and state which parts of it are ‘opinion?’ Or is it one of these remainer opinions that everything against Brexit is propaganda?

98

Sand Fisher:

Juddian:

The ‘Jocks’ as you put it are not telling the truth. The SNP clearly manage to fool the BBC and others about ‘Scotland’. The NHS is in dire straits up here, worse than England, the roads are shocking, we still have this stupid 40mph b0110cks and constant constant whinging about Britain this, Boris that, Brexit this, Tories that. The SNP is the Scottish ■■■■ Party or the Scottish Nasty Party - take your pick - of deluded individuals and their heather coloured spectacles. Once led by a former leader currently due to stand trial on multiple ■■■■■■ and ■■■■ allegations and now by another deluded woman who has at least sussed out Mad Red Jezza and is offering her ‘support’ in exchange for leaving Faslane and taking the nuke boats away. If they were so wonderful why don’t they just run their country properly? They are an utter shower of power crazed nutters who bang on about independence. They only want to be in the EU because it gives them money!

Scotland is in a hell of a state, largely because it has no middle class and the SNP are in essence Socialist anyway. If they ever got independence it would be a basket case because it would need to be high taxed in order to meet the vast social policies. They’d be a hard border with England and prices would sky rocket as would unemployment. If they concentrated on getting their own country straight first they’d be more respect for them. All of the country’s ills are blamed on the English blah de blah de blah. They are Britain’s whingers.

Fact: Whenever someone allegedly commits a crime the person on BBC news is always referred to as coming from Dundee, Glasgow or wherever they are from - unless they are English. Then it is never Manchester or London or whatever town but always ‘south of the border’.

Exactly my point, you know exactly what you are getting with SNP.

I’d rather parties were like this where you know what you are getting, rather than the tory party of the last 3 decades, which claims to be conservative yet conserves nothing, and has once again tried to outplay the others with lefty identity politics, not to mention paying homage (will anyone ever forget that disturbing on so many levels picture of Gove, and Milliband the strange gazing in awe at St Greta preaching from her leader’s hymnsheet) to the global climate warming scam, another load of cobblers designed to raise massive amounts of taxes and keep otherwise unemployable people in lucrative non jobs.

99

GrandPa.
No-where did I state that vid was untrue nor did I state it was merely opinion. So I won’t be reviewing it all to pick out false assertions.
I did state it was propaganda because it only offers one point of view. It is designed to put across one opinion of the issues only.

I’ve never said that there is only one possible set of views on Brexit or the fishing industry. Others may have differing points of view to me, and I fully accept some of those points are very valid.
You write something well balanced, and factually correct, and you’ll get little criticism from me, be it pro or anti any issue.

100

Franglais:
"Brexit the movie is a 2016 propaganda film…

Propaganda in the eyes of the pro EU propaganda.While anyone with half a brain would call it facts.