Is the logistics sector/economy slowly collapsing?

Maybe if more companies didn’t rely on temporary staff and built companies with well trained, happy staff, productivity would improve. Saving money but outsourcing labour, HR etc is asking for trouble.

In 2018 I worked for company for their season. March to about end July. Nice company moving their own product. One lorry. I pointed out some errors in their operation and that they weren’t using the lorry to its full potential. Increasing where they could deliver to extra. At the end of the season as I was about to move on they were so happy they offered me the job of taking over the transport side. They would salary me and I work pretty much max out for the season but off season I only work as required. ( Currently about 16 hours a week)

This year we moved 50% more of their product to over 80% of their customers. We control when it gets there. When it’s produced and can tell the customer when it will arrive within a two hour window. We have reduced the amount of external transport they used and only use for customers we can’t logistically reach. However we are now sourcing a van for next year to achieve some of that.

It doesn’t come without cost obviously, but he has more control and a better customer experience. It would be very easy to just throw it to a logistics company and say it will cost £x for 2020 and that’s that. More in the bank for the shareholders. Or would it be?

Sent from my SM-A600FN using Tapatalk

P Stoff:
Maybe if more companies didn’t rely on temporary staff and built companies with well trained, happy staff, productivity would improve. Saving money but outsourcing labour, HR etc is asking for trouble.

In 2018 I worked for company for their season. March to about end July. Nice company moving their own product. One lorry. I pointed out some errors in their operation and that they weren’t using the lorry to its full potential. Increasing where they could deliver to extra. At the end of the season as I was about to move on they were so happy they offered me the job of taking over the transport side. They would salary me and I work pretty much max out for the season but off season I only work as required. ( Currently about 16 hours a week)

This year we moved 50% more of their product to over 80% of their customers. We control when it gets there. When it’s produced and can tell the customer when it will arrive within a two hour window. We have reduced the amount of external transport they used and only use for customers we can’t logistically reach. However we are now sourcing a van for next year to achieve some of that.

It doesn’t come without cost obviously, but he has more control and a better customer experience. It would be very easy to just throw it to a logistics company and say it will cost £x for 2020 and that’s that. More in the bank for the shareholders. Or would it be?

Sent from my SM-A600FN using Tapatalk

Good post.
Looking at, and investing in the long term of a company.
Not investing in shares and looking at short term figures only.
Investing in a company, and looking at it`s underlying product or service, is more sustainable than looking merely at balance sheets without concept of what they truly mean.
Time for revision of tax rules etc to stop squeezing profit out of a company, and encourage reinvestment for the future.

Carryfast:
why not at least allow trials of up to a 20ft and 40 ft container to be hauled by one truck and the use of red diesel and then see if the industry responds economically to the upgrade.If it doesn’t we’ve lost nothing.

So allow the companies to reduce costs in fuel, allow them to halve their workforce by carrying twice the amount of stuff on 1 lorry? More profits for the shareholders and the drivers still get shafted.

Yes, great idea. I can see it now, the big haulier that’s is “trialling” this new model - “company X, what are you paying that small haulier? I can do it for a third of that, interested?”Bam small haulier out of business and the race to the bottom starts again with a new low.

There is nobody worried it is only you being mister doom and gloom because you can’t get a foot in the door anywhere and why would that not be a surprise to anyone with your attitude
If you think the world is coming to a end you are wrong
It’s actually a boom time at the moment and the money men are making a killing
When that stops then its gloom and doom
But i suppose it’s doom and gloom has been a factor in all of your life

I sometimes wonder if we’re not regressing back to an age of stupidity, but then I take heart that it’s only a minority that lack comprehension and even basic knowledge. I’ve returned to this industry and after four months I can see the mess it’s in and if you read through the thread so too can the majority. The world is not coming to an end, the industry is in sharp decline and overall, we’re probably heading for another recession. Haulage companies collapsing and drivers leaving the industry in droves is not a ‘boom.’ There’s a reason that tens of thousands are leaving the industry and if they have other skills, why not?

The ‘money men’ made a killing, but what we’re seeing now as once household names collapse is the final stage as the receivers, banks and venture capitalist vultures pick over what’s left. There’s no doubt the work is there, but it’s the competitive work under conditions that they can no longer get drivers for, hence the panic that there’s not enough drivers.

Recessions follow a process. Initially the transport and construction industries start to stagnate, or collapse. There’s a spike in the stock markets as the shareholders and investors clean up and that’s associated with a GDP decline. It happened in 2008 and it’s happening now. When it does go ■■■■ up it happens very suddenly and the last one caught millions out, but this one shouldn’t. It will only catch those out that believe the politicians hype about a ‘booming economy’ and the agency spiel of ‘wonderful opportunities.’

My last stable job in the transport industry was pre-2008, where I worked in the same job for 6+ years before emigrating, because along with tens of thousands of others we knew what was going to happen. In the last four months it has been a merry-go-round of a bit here and a bit there, which is par for a gig economy. Since 2008 I worked in one of the professions abroad and that lasted eight years and only ended because of age related immigration requirements. How many here have been in the same job for those lengths of time? That’s because stable/manageable work in transport is now a rarity. I don’t know about others, but I sense the desperation on the forum in general as people seek a job that is even manageable and doesn’t include the c**p that they’re being offered and are willing to commute for hours every day just to find it.

At my age Bigtruck, I’ve seen better days and was probably driving for a living while you were still at school. Those heydays are not going to come back, but the change to what the job once was is the reason few are coming into it anymore. People of my age have seen the recessions come and go and we’re no longer susceptible to the hype. It’s not about attitude, it’s about reality. Doom and gloom? Only if you believe the hype and I strongly suspect 2020 is going to throw up some very unpalatable surprises. I hope that your general ignorance won’t affect you and/or your family too much in the coming year and those other few that live in dream world. That’s the difference between us Bigtruck, I’ll explain it and you’ll attack the poster. Just another anonymous keyboard warrior. :slight_smile:

del trotter:

Grandpa:
Fishing was one example where Britain’s fishing industry was farmed out for the exclusive use of others.

I assume you mean the fishing quotas that were given to British fishermen who promptly sold them on so they could sit all day in the pub instead?

The fishing quotas were given to other European countries because being in the EU meant we gave away the rights to the 12 mile fishing rights around the coast. Yep, the few fishermen left are loving it, sitting in the pub on the dole. :unamused: :slight_smile:

Trucking sideways:

Carryfast:
why not at least allow trials of up to a 20ft and 40 ft container to be hauled by one truck and the use of red diesel and then see if the industry responds economically to the upgrade.If it doesn’t we’ve lost nothing.

So allow the companies to reduce costs in fuel, allow them to halve their workforce by carrying twice the amount of stuff on 1 lorry? More profits for the shareholders and the drivers still get shafted.

Yes, great idea. I can see it now, the big haulier that’s is “trialling” this new model - “company X, what are you paying that small haulier? I can do it for a third of that, interested?”Bam small haulier out of business and the race to the bottom starts again with a new low.

Maybe there is hope for you yet and slowly you’re beginning to get the picture.

Trucking sideways:

Carryfast:
why not at least allow trials of up to a 20ft and 40 ft container to be hauled by one truck and the use of red diesel and then see if the industry responds economically to the upgrade.If it doesn’t we’ve lost nothing.

So allow the companies to reduce costs in fuel, allow them to halve their workforce by carrying twice the amount of stuff on 1 lorry? More profits for the shareholders and the drivers still get shafted.

Yes, great idea. I can see it now, the big haulier that’s is “trialling” this new model - “company X, what are you paying that small haulier? I can do it for a third of that, interested?”Bam small haulier out of business and the race to the bottom starts again with a new low.

Firstly unfortunately a 20 ft and 40ft container isn’t twice the amount of stuff.
Who said trials have to mean only selected operators as opposed to anyone with an 8 wheeler capable of towing a trailer.While it’s obvious that the increase in efficiency combined with the removal of crippling fuel taxation will make the industry more viable to take on work which is unviable at present.Feel free to go on with the dumbing down of the industry until local multi drop will be mostly all that’s left of it with a few STGO exceptions.

Grandpa:

del trotter:

Grandpa:
Fishing was one example where Britain’s fishing industry was farmed out for the exclusive use of others.

I assume you mean the fishing quotas that were given to British fishermen who promptly sold them on so they could sit all day in the pub instead?

The fishing quotas were given to other European countries because being in the EU meant we gave away the rights to the 12 mile fishing rights around the coast. Yep, the few fishermen left are loving it, sitting in the pub on the dole. :unamused: :slight_smile:

Sure, that is exactly what happened, try doing some research or do facts not fit your agenda?

unearthed.greenpeace.org/2019/0 … fleetwood/

theguardian.com/commentisfr … government

express.co.uk/comment/colum … rts-brexit

independent.co.uk/news/uk/b … 15516.html

del trotter:

Grandpa:

del trotter:

Grandpa:
Fishing was one example where Britain’s fishing industry was farmed out for the exclusive use of others.

I assume you mean the fishing quotas that were given to British fishermen who promptly sold them on so they could sit all day in the pub instead?

The fishing quotas were given to other European countries because being in the EU meant we gave away the rights to the 12 mile fishing rights around the coast. Yep, the few fishermen left are loving it, sitting in the pub on the dole. :unamused: :slight_smile:

Sure, that is exactly what happened, try doing some research or do facts not fit your agenda?

unearthed.greenpeace.org/2019/0 … fleetwood/

theguardian.com/commentisfr … government

express.co.uk/comment/colum … rts-brexit

independent.co.uk/news/uk/b … 15516.html

You have provided him with plenty of fish to go with the large portion of chips already on his shoulder

The next economic downturn will be caused by one thing alone:

“Unwillingness for people to Gamble”.

The general Public relying on Tax Offsets rather than tightening their belts
Workers who’d rather earn less on a full time contract, than earn more on a Zero hours one.
Companies who won’t want to expand, trying to avoid a perceived high risk of a future Labour government.
The Already-Wealthy who cannot employ people in the way they want, because of EU regulations still in place currently.
Entrepeneurs - who have better prospects in a lot of third world countries - than investing in good ol’ blighty right now.

A Transport sector that is struggling to drive wages any lower, and worries intensely about available drivers prepared to work for THAT low a wage - drying up, post Brexit…

I think we’ll have a deep recession try to start in less than a year from now - Brexit done, what type of Brexit done, or no.

The only thing that’ll save us - is the Brexit Dividend being available to be ploughed into INFRASTRUCTURE projects, many of which will involve a more bouyant transport sector.
Boris’ spending plans - are not going to be met if he thinks he can borrow even more money than Labour - just to get them started, let alone completed.

HS2 - doesn’t exactly draw confidence - does it?

Heathrow Airport? - Personally I’d like to see that dropped, in favour of Boris Island being resurrected.
I’ll be off to work for some firm like Saints if it does! I can see the Isle of Grain out of my window here! :sunglasses: :grimacing:
It’ll be the closest, best-paid job I’ve always wanted, and should see the current local incumbents of Maritime and Downtons pushed out in favour of more lucrative freight forwarders to work for…

Winseer:
I’ll be off to work for some firm like Saints if it does! I can see the Isle of Grain out of my window here! :sunglasses: :grimacing:
It’ll be the closest, best-paid job I’ve always wanted, and should see the current local incumbents of Maritime and Downtons pushed out in favour of more lucrative freight forwarders to work for…

Airfreight work ‘lucrative’.Have you actually done any airfreight work.You know like being expected to stuff/tip and heave airfreight pods around on roller beds in a warehouse for more hours in a shift than driving.

Carryfast:

Winseer:
I’ll be off to work for some firm like Saints if it does! I can see the Isle of Grain out of my window here! :sunglasses: :grimacing:
It’ll be the closest, best-paid job I’ve always wanted, and should see the current local incumbents of Maritime and Downtons pushed out in favour of more lucrative freight forwarders to work for…

Airfreight work ‘lucrative’.Have you actually done any airfreight work.You know like being expected to stuff/tip and heave airfreight pods around on roller beds in a warehouse for more hours in a shift than driving.

Ever wondered what needs to be done to change that system hmm?

I don’t work for Maritime - because they run their drivers ragged, as do Downtons.
I never “double manned” until I worked there on agency, neither! What an Eye-opener THAT was!

Car Transport drivers get more pay - because there is a certain amount of “Unsupervised skill” involved in doing that job.

“Freight Forwarding” is probably at it’s most lucrative when done on a door-to-door basis, rather than “Just the final mile” or “just the first mile” come to that.
How much do you think THIS guy was getting paid for doing his more “regular” line of work?

In any case, those jobs which are “Labour Intensive” are best suited to be hourly paid.
“Salaried” jobs need to be four day weeks rather than five - so there is less “job and knock” pressure when quiet, and less “rush to make it home before being stuck with a night out” at other times.

del trotter:

Grandpa:

del trotter:

Grandpa:
Fishing was one example where Britain’s fishing industry was farmed out for the exclusive use of others.

I assume you mean the fishing quotas that were given to British fishermen who promptly sold them on so they could sit all day in the pub instead?

The fishing quotas were given to other European countries because being in the EU meant we gave away the rights to the 12 mile fishing rights around the coast. Yep, the few fishermen left are loving it, sitting in the pub on the dole. :unamused: :slight_smile:

Sure, that is exactly what happened, try doing some research or do facts not fit your agenda?

unearthed.greenpeace.org/2019/0 … fleetwood/

theguardian.com/commentisfr … government

express.co.uk/comment/colum … rts-brexit

independent.co.uk/news/uk/b … 15516.html

If you try to remove national boundaries and introduce the free movement of people and goods by becoming a federation, you also remove the previous protectionism that the nation states held. It’s why Britain has no say in East European economic migrants, of foreign hauliers coming in, or in the case of fishing, the quotas the EU introduces to fish British waters (Common Fisheries Policy). It’s EU law and supersedes British law. Ask the fishermen themselves.

You can’t look at what’s going on today and say it happened by magic. Yet together with the EU, the political leaders from Blair onwards have reduced this country to a shadow of its former self and there are people cheering that on. Amazing!

To be competitive in a country that allows the free movement of goods and people means competition from those countries that are economically much worse than we are. We simply can’t compete against them and our haulage companies are going bankrupt trying, in addition to fighting amongst themselves.

This is an EU phenomenon, it rarely happens outside the EU in the majority of countries that have very tight restrictions on imported foreign labour and flooding itself with unfair competition. That we’re now stressed, overworked and underpaid shouldn’t come as a surprise. When you get the chance, talk to the Poles, Latvians or Romanians because what we’ve got now is normal to them. They came to escape what is happening in their own countries and now that the ‘gig’ is over and the British transport industry is beginning to resemble their own, many are returning home.

Of course, it’s not just about foreign competition; the heavy industries having gone, coupled with the former illusion of borrowing money to make an economy appear to be doing well; leading to the huge rise of agencies to fuel a gig economy and the umbrella companies feeding off wages … It’s a dog eat dog economy with everyone trying to make a quick profit and it isn’t us at the bottom that’s benefitting.

Why would I have a chip on my shoulder? If you align yourself with some of the worse performing economies in Europe on an equality basis, what else would you expect to happen that isn’t happening now in a race to the bottom? I’m not surprised at what’s going on, I just happen to mention it. Another ten years of this and we’ll look like all the other collapsed economies propped up by the IMF and ECB.

Winseer:

Carryfast:
Airfreight work ‘lucrative’.Have you actually done any airfreight work.You know like being expected to stuff/tip and heave airfreight pods around on roller beds in a warehouse for more hours in a shift than driving.

Ever wondered what needs to be done to change that system hmm?

I don’t work for Maritime - because they run their drivers ragged, as do Downtons.
I never “double manned” until I worked there on agency, neither! What an Eye-opener THAT was!

Car Transport drivers get more pay - because there is a certain amount of “Unsupervised skill” involved in doing that job.

“Freight Forwarding” is probably at it’s most lucrative when done on a door-to-door basis, rather than “Just the final mile” or “just the first mile” come to that.
How much do you think THIS guy was getting paid for doing his more “regular” line of work?
Essex lorry deaths: County Armagh man charged - BBC News

In any case, those jobs which are “Labour Intensive” are best suited to be hourly paid.
“Salaried” jobs need to be four day weeks rather than five - so there is less “job and knock” pressure when quiet, and less “rush to make it home before being stuck with a night out” at other times.

It obviously depends on your definition of lucrative.I didn’t regard working as a warehouse labourer as ‘lucrative’ and,with a few exceptions,airfreight is arguably even worse than hub system trunking in that regard.It’s generally only ‘lucrative’ for pilots not truck drivers.

Grandpa:
If you try to remove national boundaries and introduce the free movement of people and goods by becoming a federation, you also remove the previous protectionism that the nation states held.

To be fair ‘potentially held’ given the right protectionist economic policies.Unfortunately we lost that from the point when people like Callaghan, ,instead of Benn and Shore,won out in control of the Labour Party and we know where the Tories stand on the issue of race to the bottom free markets.EU membership just being one of the tools they used to impose that on the country.

That isn’t the cause of the specific issues facing the road transport industry now though.As any of the mostly 4 wheeler drivers who made up the bulk of the 1920’s road transport sector could have told you.With it gradually being deliberately driven back to that type of core business model.IE the antithesis of the Scandinavian and Australian one.

Carryfast:

Grandpa:
If you try to remove national boundaries and introduce the free movement of people and goods by becoming a federation, you also remove the previous protectionism that the nation states held.

To be fair ‘potentially held’ given the right protectionist economic policies.Unfortunately we lost that from the point when people like Callaghan, ,instead of Benn and Shore,won out in control of the Labour Party and we know where the Tories stand on the issue of race to the bottom free markets.EU membership just being one of the tools they used to impose that on the country.

That isn’t the cause of the specific issues facing the road transport industry now though.As any of the mostly 4 wheeler drivers who made up the bulk of the 1920’s road transport sector could have told you.With it gradually being deliberately driven back to that type of core business model.IE the antithesis of the Scandinavian and Australian one.

You can’t go back too far in the past with this. What happened previously was economic (EEC) and not political as it has become now (EU). What caused the mess we’re in now is successive PMs dragging us ever deeper into an EU centralized bureaucracy with various treaties, which only benefitted the political class and big business and that’s still the case. Even the will of the people referendum was ignored. We all got well and truly shafted and we’re now reaping the consequences.

Successive electorates voted overwhelmingly for the 2.5 parties, who once again are bribing the same electorate with trinkets, who once again will put the same charlatans back in the commons, and wonder why nothing’s changed, turkeys Christmas.

We deserve to get shafted, no matter how many times they prove themselves unfit to rule we keep voting them back in, it’s been going on for decades and i can’t see it changing any time soon.
Keep doing the same thing and expecting a different result, a sure definition of lunacy, the country is certifiable.

The country will change dramatically, within 20 years it will be unrecognisable from now, just as it is today compared with 20 years ago, because the electorate continue to believe those who have proved themselves untrustworthy every time, we’ve got election manifestos published once again, why would anyone believe a single word written within? they were all elected last time on enacting the will of the people manifestos, completely discredited yet people still believe, are they putting something in the water to make the population compliant or what?

Ironically the only parties telling the truth are the Libs and Wee Jimmie Krankie’s mob, they intend to completely destroy Brexit, just like the cons and labour intend, but to their credit the libs and jocks are straight about their anti democracy.

Grandpa:

Carryfast:

Grandpa:
If you try to remove national boundaries and introduce the free movement of people and goods by becoming a federation, you also remove the previous protectionism that the nation states held.

To be fair ‘potentially held’ given the right protectionist economic policies.Unfortunately we lost that from the point when people like Callaghan, ,instead of Benn and Shore,won out in control of the Labour Party and we know where the Tories stand on the issue of race to the bottom free markets.EU membership just being one of the tools they used to impose that on the country.

That isn’t the cause of the specific issues facing the road transport industry now though.As any of the mostly 4 wheeler drivers who made up the bulk of the 1920’s road transport sector could have told you.With it gradually being deliberately driven back to that type of core business model.IE the antithesis of the Scandinavian and Australian one.

You can’t go back too far in the past with this. What happened previously was economic (EEC) and not political as it has become now (EU). What caused the mess we’re in now is successive PMs dragging us ever deeper into an EU centralized bureaucracy with various treaties, which only benefitted the political class and big business and that’s still the case. Even the will of the people referendum was ignored. We all got well and truly shafted and we’re now reaping the consequences.

The EEC was always the same thing as the EU it’s all in the Treaty of Rome and it’s also why Heath hid FCO 30/1048.Just as Powell and Benn and Shore warned.Sweden is in the EU and has a totally different view to our government of how to run a road transport industry at least in terms of not crippling it with silly productivety limits.Add the use of red diesel to that model problem solved.

Juddian:
Successive electorates voted overwhelmingly for the 2.5 parties, who once again are bribing the same electorate with trinkets, who once again will put the same charlatans back in the commons, and wonder why nothing’s changed, turkeys Christmas.

We deserve to get shafted, no matter how many times they prove themselves unfit to rule we keep voting them back in, it’s been going on for decades and i can’t see it changing any time soon.
Keep doing the same thing and expecting a different result, a sure definition of lunacy, the country is certifiable.

The country will change dramatically, within 20 years it will be unrecognisable from now, just as it is today compared with 20 years ago, because the electorate continue to believe those who have proved themselves untrustworthy every time, we’ve got election manifestos published once again, why would anyone believe a single word written within? they were all elected last time on enacting the will of the people manifestos, completely discredited yet people still believe, are they putting something in the water to make the population compliant or what?

Ironically the only parties telling the truth are the Libs and Wee Jimmie Krankie’s mob, they intend to completely destroy Brexit, just like the cons and labour intend, but to their credit the libs and jocks are straight about their anti democracy.

To be fair it isn’t exactly a case of a fair vote when less than 1 million Scottish votes buys 56 seats in parliament.

Hopefully you’ll see a massive drop in the turnout figure thereby removing all credibility for this sham election and its result.

That’s all irrelevant to the industry’s problems caused by a country which is unarguably historically hostile to road transport.To the point where it is now crippled by laughable limits on its efficiency in terms of payloads and even more laughable fuel taxation costs.

Juddian:
Successive electorates voted overwhelmingly for the 2.5 parties, who once again are bribing the same electorate with trinkets, who once again will put the same charlatans back in the commons, and wonder why nothing’s changed, turkeys Christmas.

We deserve to get shafted, no matter how many times they prove themselves unfit to rule we keep voting them back in, it’s been going on for decades and i can’t see it changing any time soon.
Keep doing the same thing and expecting a different result, a sure definition of lunacy, the country is certifiable.

The country will change dramatically, within 20 years it will be unrecognisable from now, just as it is today compared with 20 years ago, because the electorate continue to believe those who have proved themselves untrustworthy every time, we’ve got election manifestos published once again, why would anyone believe a single word written within? they were all elected last time on enacting the will of the people manifestos, completely discredited yet people still believe, are they putting something in the water to make the population compliant or what?

Ironically the only parties telling the truth are the Libs and Wee Jimmie Krankie’s mob, they intend to completely destroy Brexit, just like the cons and labour intend, but to their credit the libs and jocks are straight about their anti democracy.

Spot on and probably a result of electorate misplaced trust and complacency. It also throws up a bigger picture of the democratic process itself. No matter whether people are for Brexit or remain, if the electorate votes don’t count anymore and politicians make the final decision, the people no longer have a voice. My personal opinion is that when PM May began her dealings with the EU, the Queen ought to have broken her protocol of silence and reminded parliament about promises and who it is they represent. Who will win the December election and does it matter if parliament can override the popular vote?

The choice now is do we vote to be ruled by unelected European Commissioners for the benefit of Europe, or a parliament that will continue that through the backdoor by treaties and deals?

I’ve no doubt in 40 years’ time history will provide ample evidence of the politicians who were bribed or coerced into promoting what is now going on for their own benefit. I’m cheering on the next coming recession that will throw millions on the short term scrap heap, because only then will people have time to realize what we were led into by a political elite and start to vote against them and hopefully things will improve.

I’m not against change as that’s inevitable, but what I am against is change that puts the wishes of politicians above those they represent and a business ethos based on short term profit that will see us become similar to the East European economies in the not too distant future.