BillyHunt:
I don’t care who “wins” the referendum anymore. I’m retiring next April & moving abroad, not Europe…
Hmmmm…abandoning the sinking ship, perhaps? Puzzling as to why you carry such strident opinions when you won`t be sticking around to face the consequences?
I still dont understand why Mr Juncker being a PM of some other place means i get lumped with him as President ■■
Dolph . just because there has been no big shooty war for a couple of decades doesnt mean there wont be another !!
After all we have been invaded , and no one asked us if we minded before invasion …
Because they knew we DO mind …
And would have said No …
If asked
Euro:
Definitely IN!
Sure there are lots of things that need improving but,
I, my children and grandchildren are the third generation now of my family which has not been shot at by a load of French, German, Italians …etc.
I am free to live work and enjoy anywhere in this, the biggest market the world has ever seen.
Standards of pay, welfare, health, safety security and culture have improved and been standardized.
God Save the Queen. Viva the United Kingdom. Viva Europe
With regard to peace in Europe this is often quoted by pro Europeans yet it is NATO with a huge input form the USA that has kept the peace. Look at the recent wars on Europes borders, the Balkans and the Ukraine in the first, Europe was nowhere to be seen when mass genocide was taking place within Europe and with the Ukraine as with most things European the Germans are calling the tune and they want to maintain their trade links with Russia so don’t expect to much there either
boredwivdrivin:
I still dont understand why Mr Juncker being a PM of some other place means i get lumped with him as President ■■Dolph . just because there has been no big shooty war for a couple of decades doesnt mean there wont be another !!
After all we have been invaded , and no one asked us if we minded before invasion …
Because they knew we DO mind …
And would have said No …
If asked
Well lets hope we can avoid it, I remember bomb drills in elementary school during the wars in Yugoslavia, thanks but no thanks, no war in Europe because of greedy politicians or businessmen.
We are invaded as well, by Syrian, Afghanistan and Iraq refugees, no one ask us either. But all of them are in Bulgaria or trying to cross because of American and British militarism in the Middle East.
Out as soon as possible and close/man the borders.
Enough is enough.
Dolph:
BillyHunt:
Dolph:
drhs:
id like to ask dolph what has the ee contributed to the eu since they all joined …from were i stand bugger all…cus they hadnt got a pot to ■■■■ in…apart from cheap labour…so come on give me facts n figures…im waiting ■■?If you want to see the real data and change we lived thru open any economic website and read. There is tons of information about import, export, education, tourism, police and military cooperation, agriculture, skilled migration educated by the taxpayer in EE working in countries like UK.
First and formost Eastern European countries brought peace and stability by entering EU.
Second, the western countries market for goods and services grew significantly, does improving the economy of countries like UK.” There are currently more than 4,000 UK companies operating in Romania. Trade between the two countries topped 3.28 billion euros in 2013, which is a growth of 11.9% compared to the year before.British commerce in Slovakia, Hungary, Poland, Romania, the Czech Republic and Slovenia
At the beginning of this month it became known Ian Livingston, Minister for Trade and Investment, launched two new British Business Centres in Slovakia and Hungary. Such centres opened in Poland last year and Romania this week. Business centres in the Czech Republic and Slovenia are due to open shortly. “This is a dynamic and exciting growth market. British firms have doubled trade exports to Eastern and Central European countries in the last ten years but we still lag behind our rivals”, lord Livingston says. “By 2020, I want to double exports to this region, so we are ramping up our support for British firms on the ground by opening a network of business centres across the region and increasing the number of trade missions to introduce more British businesses to potential buyers.”You are wasting your time my friend, you might as well try & nail a turd to the ceiling as get any sense out of these, they’ve made up their minds & no amount of reasoned argument will change that. Going off on a tangent, endless repetition of “facts” coupled with quotes & articles from Google, usually nothing to do with the topic, as well as the odd moron popping up to add weight to the argument, will be the norm until you get fed up,&'stop, allowing them to claim victory and prove they were correct all the time. Been there done that.
And for the hard of thinking, Mr Junker was prime minister of his country for over 10 years, not bad for a failure.You are right Billy, but as long as I have a will I’ll continue the debate.
. I have seen so many people from different nations and background work together for the bright future in US, why cant we do it in Europe. May be it has something to do with the centuries old argument who will control EU- UK, Germany or France, I don’t know. But if the French and Germans can work together, there shouldn’t be a problem for all of the rest.
Some of my thoughts.
I wish people can leave nationalism a bit behind. We have seen what nationalism has done to all of us in Europe, doesnt matter Brit, Bulgarian or Polish. Particularly for Bulgaria since 1878 until 1945, we were involved in 5 wars ,2 of them world wars, and 2 national catastrophes , death, famine…
Today we have something fantastic - EU, good/bad its positive in many ways. We don’t fight anymore, we trade, work together, educate etc. Why do we want to abolish it. Im sick and tired of all politicians, mainly Bulgarian, but also many EU once like Victor Orban or David Cameron.
UK should have changed the rules long before we joint, now it will never happen and like before politicians will encourage people to fight one another. Why Brit/German or Greek have to do it, why do we have to hate each other…when is the greedy politicians and corporations fault
British people demand cheap labor to be stopped, where were the British people when UK government pushed for EU expansion 15+ years ago? When Blair sad, something in the line: give us access to you air space to bomb Serbia and we will make sure you are invited into EU. Where were the British people for 7 long years - the transition period(restriction) for Bulgaria and Romania to EU labor market. In 2014 we faced a wall of hatred by British people even though we played by British and EU rules.
You(British voters)want out of UK, no problem(in my eyes) do your referendum and be out of it, its your country in the end of the day. Or you want some EU principals changed, put them in writing and demand a change, Cameron is refusing this as well. But please stop using EE migrants as scapegoats for all of your mishaps. Many of you keep saying don’t play the race card, we are no racists, we just want our country back. Well thats fine, with just one problem. You bash all the time Easter European migrants, but never done this to cheap/unskilled or skilled labor from Germany, France, Spain, Italy, Portugal etc., well its racism by nationality. Conveniently forgetting all the doctors, dentist, engineers, IT specialist, nurses, all sorts of experts(electricians, plumbers, mechanics), business owners etc. from Poland, Bulgaria, Hungary and all of the rest EE. Yes you are racists if you differentiate between Bulgarian, Polish or Spanish lorry driver for example, they are all EU citizens, period!
We’ve been lied to by politicians since this corrupt institution was created
It was a common market in the beginning in which I think the majority of the British people were pleased to be apart of
Over the years it’s now become a political union where democracy doesn’t count if anyone dares not to agree with what Brussels imposes all you have to do is look at Greece and Ireland theses two countries have voted before in referendums but the unelected clowns at head office in Brussels don’t like to listen or abide by the will of people who have voted in a legal referendum
You can’t compere the USA to Europe as the USA is one nation with its own currency laws and so on
The EU is made up of different countries with different currencies and again I for one don’t want to be apart of this
I love traveling to Europe and seeing different traditions and cultures also in my job I see many different European lorry drivers on a daily basis and I can’t count on one whose in favour of a united Europe
Having not had a prior EU referendum - there isn’t as such any kind of “how did you vote previously?” to be asked of the general public by the pollsters.
We keep getting told "There is a majority overall who want to stay in the EU, and among the youngest - the poll is highest for “staying in”.
I’d rate this either a complete fabrication based on ignoring the actual data, fabricated data, or the pollsters themselves are under dictat from Government to “make the situation a number of percentage points tilted towards staying in”… In other words, WE get told say “64% want us to stay in the EU” - but the government takes off the 40% differential - and realizes that it’s actually 24% who want to stay in… They have this massive uphill struggle to swing that amount higher - without the public even knowing that they are streets ahead as it were.
It’s similar to how Cameron talked up Milliband’s chances on May 7th… “Neck and Neck” when he was in fact around 50-60 seats behind, mostly from what was going to be lost north of the border all by itself…
Tell a member of the public “Here’s a free token to have a free bet with. You must bet it or lose it.”
What are the vast majority of people going to do? - Especially those who don’t normally bet? - They are going to back what they are TOLD is the “Favourite” - either because they think that’s what prudent people do - or because they can’t be arsed to do their own research into each selection’s actual chances…
There are a lot of people in the UK who will vote to “Stay In” if that’s what they think all their peers are doing. Every reason therefore, for the government to “talk up” the current voting intent of people.
Even if you took all EMPLOYERS plus all SELF-EMPLOYED and pitted them against all PAYE plus all NON-WORKERS - I don’t think you’ll easily get the “stay in” vote above 50%.
…But you WILL get the otherwise winning “out” vote - below that critical 67%, meaning the EU can argue that the whole damned thing be safely ignored. THAT’S the danger here. 
Let’s not forget our history as well here…
The American colonies wanted OUT - We didn’t give it to them, and we ended up having to fight a war which we lost - attempting to keep them in, failing, and the current United States - a country more powerful than our own - was the result.
If the UK wants OUT, the EU doesn’t give it to us, and they fight a war which they lose to keep us in - then a nation more powerful than the EU will eventually result.
If 13 colonies could overturn an already established empire - then what chance have a bunch of countries who even have to speak OUR language as common denominator between each other - got of getting us to pretty much do anything at all?
It’s all smoke & mirrors, lies, & deceit - very similar to the world of unsecured debt.
All it needs is for us to have a leader who will act in the vast majority of people’s interest - instead of the wealthy minorities who fear losing power and influence the same as the plantation owners and the southern states did after the emancipation declaration.
In the end - what is happening on people’s actual doorstep will be freshest in their minds when polling day comes. Cameron will attempt to select a “feelgood” season for the poll - I predict.
Dolph:
Some of my thoughts.
I wish people can leave nationalism a bit behind. We have seen what nationalism has done to all of us in Europe, doesnt matter Brit, Bulgarian or Polish. Particularly for Bulgaria since 1878 until 1945, we were involved in 5 wars ,2 of them world wars, and 2 national catastrophes , death, famine…
Today we have something fantastic - EU, good/bad its positive in many ways. We don’t fight anymore, we trade, work together, educate etc. Why do we want to abolish it. Im sick and tired of all politicians, mainly Bulgarian, but also many EU once like Victor Orban or David Cameron.
UK should have changed the rules long before we joint, now it will never happen and like before politicians will encourage people to fight one another. Why Brit/German or Greek have to do it, why do we have to hate each other…when is the greedy politicians and corporations fault
British people demand cheap labor to be stopped, where were the British people when UK government pushed for EU expansion 15+ years ago? When Blair sad, something in the line: give us access to you air space to bomb Serbia and we will make sure you are invited into EU. Where were the British people for 7 long years - the transition period(restriction) for Bulgaria and Romania to EU labor market. In 2014 we faced a wall of hatred by British people even though we played by British and EU rules.
You(British voters)want out of UK, no problem(in my eyes) do your referendum and be out of it, its your country in the end of the day. Or you want some EU principals changed, put them in writing and demand a change, Cameron is refusing this as well. But please stop using EE migrants as scapegoats for all of your mishaps. Many of you keep saying don’t play the race card, we are no racists, we just want our country back. Well thats fine, with just one problem. You bash all the time Easter European migrants, but never done this to cheap/unskilled or skilled labor from Germany, France, Spain, Italy, Portugal etc., well its racism by nationality. Conveniently forgetting all the doctors, dentist, engineers, IT specialist, nurses, all sorts of experts(electricians, plumbers, mechanics), business owners etc. from Poland, Bulgaria, Hungary and all of the rest EE. Yes you are racists if you differentiate between Bulgarian, Polish or Spanish lorry driver for example, they are all EU citizens, period!
Most of the European wars were about the ( justified ) argument between Federalism v Nationalism in one form or another.Wether it was zb Napoleon or the Austrian empire or the Yugoslav federation or for that matter Ireland.
The same applied in the USA which you conveniently seem to forget which caused them more casualties than all the other wars they’ve been in combined.
Then you’ve got the nerve to make the hypocritical case that Soviet federalism was bad but EU federalism is good.Obviously on the same basis as the contradictory hypocrisy contained in the Yugoslav war of secession.Which led to the newly seceded ex Yugoslav states all now falling over themselves to be in the EU Federation because the payoff is better.
On that note like the rest of Eastern Europe you can take your obviously Socialist agenda and resulting selective pro Federalist/Sovietski Soyus,( when it suits you and nationalist when it doesn’t ),bs and shove it.
IE no the idea of friends with fences and national borders,which is the definition of the nation state,isn’t zb racist.While Socialism/Federalism in all its forms wether ■■■■ or the Stalinist/Tito type version most certainly is. 
Winseer:
Let’s not forget our history as well here…The American colonies wanted OUT - We didn’t give it to them, and we ended up having to fight a war which we lost - attempting to keep them in, failing, and the current United States - a country more powerful than our own - was the result.
The relevant bit in this case being what happened later and the casualties which resulted when the Federalist Lincoln went to war with the Southern States.Because they’d ( rightly ) had enough of being dictated to on the basis of Federal supreme government v State supreme rights and government.While dressing up Federalist aggression to make it look like it was about slavery when most of Lincolns generals were slave owners themselves.When it was Lee who wanted to repatriate the slaves not keep them there. 
Don’t compare Greece when talking of leaving EU. Greece deserves its fate, it should have been left to file for bankruptcy, no bail out. They cheated and stole billions and billions of euros.
Well UK should have never been in EU if it wasn’t ready to give up some sovereignty, be like Norway and leave the rest of us to have one governing body in Brussels and local once in the capital cities of the member states, one currency - euro, no borders between Schengen countries, just like there is no border between US states etc.
What the hell are you doing in a union which long term idea is federal super state when you don’t want to be part of such a state?
UK Government is ■■■■■■■ of its electorate and EU as well, if British people don’t want to be part of the union, then Cameron should listen to the people and quit EU. In the same time UK PM is derailing EU policies, refuse to adopt the Euro, to be part of Schengen, wants special treatment on EU principles, no EE migrants and on and on. If Im reading you right as I think, you have your concerns and right to steer the country whichever way you want, just don’t allow you PM to screw us all.
Carryfast:
Dolph:
Some of my thoughts.
I wish people can leave nationalism a bit behind. We have seen what nationalism has done to all of us in Europe, doesnt matter Brit, Bulgarian or Polish. Particularly for Bulgaria since 1878 until 1945, we were involved in 5 wars ,2 of them world wars, and 2 national catastrophes , death, famine…
Today we have something fantastic - EU, good/bad its positive in many ways. We don’t fight anymore, we trade, work together, educate etc. Why do we want to abolish it. Im sick and tired of all politicians, mainly Bulgarian, but also many EU once like Victor Orban or David Cameron.
UK should have changed the rules long before we joint, now it will never happen and like before politicians will encourage people to fight one another. Why Brit/German or Greek have to do it, why do we have to hate each other…when is the greedy politicians and corporations fault
British people demand cheap labor to be stopped, where were the British people when UK government pushed for EU expansion 15+ years ago? When Blair sad, something in the line: give us access to you air space to bomb Serbia and we will make sure you are invited into EU. Where were the British people for 7 long years - the transition period(restriction) for Bulgaria and Romania to EU labor market. In 2014 we faced a wall of hatred by British people even though we played by British and EU rules.
You(British voters)want out of UK, no problem(in my eyes) do your referendum and be out of it, its your country in the end of the day. Or you want some EU principals changed, put them in writing and demand a change, Cameron is refusing this as well. But please stop using EE migrants as scapegoats for all of your mishaps. Many of you keep saying don’t play the race card, we are no racists, we just want our country back. Well thats fine, with just one problem. You bash all the time Easter European migrants, but never done this to cheap/unskilled or skilled labor from Germany, France, Spain, Italy, Portugal etc., well its racism by nationality. Conveniently forgetting all the doctors, dentist, engineers, IT specialist, nurses, all sorts of experts(electricians, plumbers, mechanics), business owners etc. from Poland, Bulgaria, Hungary and all of the rest EE. Yes you are racists if you differentiate between Bulgarian, Polish or Spanish lorry driver for example, they are all EU citizens, period!Most of the European wars were about the ( justified ) argument between Federalism v Nationalism in one form or another.Wether it was zb Napoleon or the Austrian empire or the Yugoslav federation or for that matter Ireland.
The same applied in the USA which you conveniently seem to forget which caused them more casualties than all the other wars they’ve been in combined.
Then you’ve got the nerve to make the hypocritical case that Soviet federalism was bad but EU federalism is good.Obviously on the same basis as the contradictory hypocrisy contained in the Yugoslav war of secession.Which led to the newly seceded ex Yugoslav states all now falling over themselves to be in the EU Federation because the payoff is better.
On that note like the rest of Eastern Europe you can take your obviously Socialist agenda and resulting selective pro Federalist/Sovietski Soyus,( when it suits you and nationalist when it doesn’t ),bs and shove it.
IE no the idea of friends with fences and national borders,which is the definition of the nation state,isn’t zb racist.While Socialism/Federalism in all its forms wether ■■■■ or the Stalinist/Tito type version most certainly is.
I have no socialist agenda nor the rest of EE, quite the opposite. We don’t mind being in Federal EU state, if you dont like it, just quit. Stop this non sense that is going on now, just vote and leave. Why the hell do you need 3 years to prepare yourself for referendum, this is idiotic, do it and be done with it.
UK is the most socialist country in Europe, for the record.
Dolph:
Don’t compare Greece when talking of leaving EU. Greece deserves its fate, it should have been left to file for bankruptcy, no bail out. They cheated and stole billions and billions of euros.
Well UK should have never been in EU if it wasn’t ready to give up some sovereignty, be like Norway and leave the rest of us to have one governing body in Brussels and local once in the capital cities of the member states, one currency - euro, no borders between Schengen countries, just like there is no border between US states etc.
What the hell are you doing in a union which long term idea is federal super state when you don’t want to be part of such a state?
UK Government is ■■■■■■■ of its electorate and EU as well, if British people don’t want to be part of the union, then Cameron should listen to the people and quit EU. In the same time UK PM is derailing EU policies, refuse to adopt the Euro, to be part of Schengen, wants special treatment on EU principles, no EE migrants and on and on. If Im reading you right as I think, you have your concerns and right to steer the country whichever way you want, just don’t allow you PM to screw us all.
You again seem to have conveniently missed the bit as to why and how the removal of state sovereignty came about in the ‘USA’ being that wasn’t in the original constitution.
As for the EU you’ve made a better case for us getting out than Farage ever has.While good luck if you really think that Germany will be willing to give up the right to govern its own country ( and everyone else’s ) by majority Federal East European vote. 
Dolph:
Carryfast:
Dolph:
Some of my thoughts.
I wish people can leave nationalism a bit behind. We have seen what nationalism has done to all of us in Europe, doesnt matter Brit, Bulgarian or Polish. Particularly for Bulgaria since 1878 until 1945, we were involved in 5 wars ,2 of them world wars, and 2 national catastrophes , death, famine…
Today we have something fantastic - EU, good/bad its positive in many ways. We don’t fight anymore, we trade, work together, educate etc. Why do we want to abolish it. Im sick and tired of all politicians, mainly Bulgarian, but also many EU once like Victor Orban or David Cameron.
UK should have changed the rules long before we joint, now it will never happen and like before politicians will encourage people to fight one another. Why Brit/German or Greek have to do it, why do we have to hate each other…when is the greedy politicians and corporations fault
British people demand cheap labor to be stopped, where were the British people when UK government pushed for EU expansion 15+ years ago? When Blair sad, something in the line: give us access to you air space to bomb Serbia and we will make sure you are invited into EU. Where were the British people for 7 long years - the transition period(restriction) for Bulgaria and Romania to EU labor market. In 2014 we faced a wall of hatred by British people even though we played by British and EU rules.
You(British voters)want out of UK, no problem(in my eyes) do your referendum and be out of it, its your country in the end of the day. Or you want some EU principals changed, put them in writing and demand a change, Cameron is refusing this as well. But please stop using EE migrants as scapegoats for all of your mishaps. Many of you keep saying don’t play the race card, we are no racists, we just want our country back. Well thats fine, with just one problem. You bash all the time Easter European migrants, but never done this to cheap/unskilled or skilled labor from Germany, France, Spain, Italy, Portugal etc., well its racism by nationality. Conveniently forgetting all the doctors, dentist, engineers, IT specialist, nurses, all sorts of experts(electricians, plumbers, mechanics), business owners etc. from Poland, Bulgaria, Hungary and all of the rest EE. Yes you are racists if you differentiate between Bulgarian, Polish or Spanish lorry driver for example, they are all EU citizens, period!Most of the European wars were about the ( justified ) argument between Federalism v Nationalism in one form or another.Wether it was zb Napoleon or the Austrian empire or the Yugoslav federation or for that matter Ireland.
The same applied in the USA which you conveniently seem to forget which caused them more casualties than all the other wars they’ve been in combined.
Then you’ve got the nerve to make the hypocritical case that Soviet federalism was bad but EU federalism is good.Obviously on the same basis as the contradictory hypocrisy contained in the Yugoslav war of secession.Which led to the newly seceded ex Yugoslav states all now falling over themselves to be in the EU Federation because the payoff is better.
On that note like the rest of Eastern Europe you can take your obviously Socialist agenda and resulting selective pro Federalist/Sovietski Soyus,( when it suits you and nationalist when it doesn’t ),bs and shove it.
IE no the idea of friends with fences and national borders,which is the definition of the nation state,isn’t zb racist.While Socialism/Federalism in all its forms wether ■■■■ or the Stalinist/Tito type version most certainly is.
I have no socialist agenda nor the rest of EE, quite the opposite. We don’t mind being in Federal EU state, if you dont like it, just quit. Stop this non sense that is going on now, just vote and leave. Why the hell do you need 3 years to prepare yourself for referendum, this is idiotic, do it and be done with it.
UK is the most socialist country in Europe, for the record.
That’s what the majority of the British people want to quit
But until Adolf Merkel signs off our ballot papers so us “little englanders” vote the right way and stay in then it’s going to take a long time because the EU doesn’t understand the word NO
Also the spawn of thatcher Cameron will leave it until 2017 so he flood the UK with as many EU migrants as possible and give them all the right to vote
Dolph:
I have no socialist agenda nor the rest of EE, quite the opposite. We don’t mind being in Federal EU state, if you dont like it, just quit. Stop this non sense that is going on now, just vote and leave. Why the hell do you need 3 years to prepare yourself for referendum, this is idiotic, do it and be done with it.UK is the most socialist country in Europe, for the record.
Socialism isn’t something that can be identified because it relies on infiltration not democracy to get its way.However it has to show its hand eventually and on that note its easy to see where Merkel and Junker sit while Cameron is anyone’s guess.But in general it is fair to say that there is a link between Federalism and Socialism in that both hate the idea of the nation state and national borders.While making the Chinese Communist Party stronger at our expense probably speaks for itself in that regard.
IE this can only end badly in yet another fight between Nationalism and Socialism sooner or later with Cameron’s,probably successful plan,to keep us in the Federalist scam probably ending up as part of that fight.Being that you’re right we shouldn’t be having any bs referendum or re negotiation on a matter which was always illegal under our constitution by handing over national sovereignty to a foreign power.On that note if it was me running the country I’d have already handed the matter over to the military to deal with.Which would obviously include treason charges against any surviving member of the government involved in it.
I still think we are better as part of the EU if we can get some powers back. A sort of “take what suits us” kind of thing. We need rid of the control they have regards our laws, get rid of the human rights act and get a tighter grip on immigration (All countries need immigrants but we need control of how many and what kind rather than being told to hold the door open)
If we do leave the EU then I hope im wrong but I can see Britain struggling because the EU are like a bunch of children and I can predict them chucking their toys out the pram and smothering us in red tape with regards to trade issues.
gazsa401:
Dolph:
Carryfast:
Dolph:
Some of my thoughts.
I wish people can leave nationalism a bit behind. We have seen what nationalism has done to all of us in Europe, doesnt matter Brit, Bulgarian or Polish. Particularly for Bulgaria since 1878 until 1945, we were involved in 5 wars ,2 of them world wars, and 2 national catastrophes , death, famine…
Today we have something fantastic - EU, good/bad its positive in many ways. We don’t fight anymore, we trade, work together, educate etc. Why do we want to abolish it. Im sick and tired of all politicians, mainly Bulgarian, but also many EU once like Victor Orban or David Cameron.
UK should have changed the rules long before we joint, now it will never happen and like before politicians will encourage people to fight one another. Why Brit/German or Greek have to do it, why do we have to hate each other…when is the greedy politicians and corporations fault
British people demand cheap labor to be stopped, where were the British people when UK government pushed for EU expansion 15+ years ago? When Blair sad, something in the line: give us access to you air space to bomb Serbia and we will make sure you are invited into EU. Where were the British people for 7 long years - the transition period(restriction) for Bulgaria and Romania to EU labor market. In 2014 we faced a wall of hatred by British people even though we played by British and EU rules.
You(British voters)want out of UK, no problem(in my eyes) do your referendum and be out of it, its your country in the end of the day. Or you want some EU principals changed, put them in writing and demand a change, Cameron is refusing this as well. But please stop using EE migrants as scapegoats for all of your mishaps. Many of you keep saying don’t play the race card, we are no racists, we just want our country back. Well thats fine, with just one problem. You bash all the time Easter European migrants, but never done this to cheap/unskilled or skilled labor from Germany, France, Spain, Italy, Portugal etc., well its racism by nationality. Conveniently forgetting all the doctors, dentist, engineers, IT specialist, nurses, all sorts of experts(electricians, plumbers, mechanics), business owners etc. from Poland, Bulgaria, Hungary and all of the rest EE. Yes you are racists if you differentiate between Bulgarian, Polish or Spanish lorry driver for example, they are all EU citizens, period!Most of the European wars were about the ( justified ) argument between Federalism v Nationalism in one form or another.Wether it was zb Napoleon or the Austrian empire or the Yugoslav federation or for that matter Ireland.
The same applied in the USA which you conveniently seem to forget which caused them more casualties than all the other wars they’ve been in combined.
Then you’ve got the nerve to make the hypocritical case that Soviet federalism was bad but EU federalism is good.Obviously on the same basis as the contradictory hypocrisy contained in the Yugoslav war of secession.Which led to the newly seceded ex Yugoslav states all now falling over themselves to be in the EU Federation because the payoff is better.
On that note like the rest of Eastern Europe you can take your obviously Socialist agenda and resulting selective pro Federalist/Sovietski Soyus,( when it suits you and nationalist when it doesn’t ),bs and shove it.
IE no the idea of friends with fences and national borders,which is the definition of the nation state,isn’t zb racist.While Socialism/Federalism in all its forms wether ■■■■ or the Stalinist/Tito type version most certainly is.
I have no socialist agenda nor the rest of EE, quite the opposite. We don’t mind being in Federal EU state, if you dont like it, just quit. Stop this non sense that is going on now, just vote and leave. Why the hell do you need 3 years to prepare yourself for referendum, this is idiotic, do it and be done with it.
UK is the most socialist country in Europe, for the record.
That’s what the majority of the British people want to quit
But until Adolf Merkel signs off our ballot papers so us “little englanders” vote the right way and stay in then it’s going to take a long time because the EU doesn’t understand the word NO
Also the spawn of thatcher Cameron will leave it until 2017 so he flood the UK with as many EU migrants as possible and give them all the right to vote
And you know that the majority wants out, how?? The same was said about UKIP, they will win sooooo many seats etc. reality was different.
Total non sense, its not Germany fault that UK Government doesnt want to have referendum now. UK have the power/muscle and the money to do it, your PM said in 2014 referendum 2017, why the hell you kept quite and didn’t protest? When was the last time people in UK protested in millions to quit EU? Never.
Stop accusing others for your lack of action.
Let’s face it - going to war for pretty much any reason always seems to be “wrong” from some perspective.
As Lee himself said "It’s well that war is so terrible - lest we grow too fond of it…"
FEAR of ending up in a war - can force the dictats of anyone and everyone meanwhile…
Those doing the pushing will always try “not to push that little bit too hard” that then finally tips the long-disgruntled population over the edge - where even War becomes preferable to “things carrying on the way they are”.
Just before WWII for example - if we’d had a decade of “feelgood factor” instead of “world slump” as we did - the chances of Britain being “up for war” come Germany invading Poland - would have been very different.
dolph. . still no answer on the wage …front ■■? or cheap labour… no ee country as contributed to the eu…like the British people have 55 million £££ a day I bet the all over the ee don’t put harf as much…in each day…I want a level playing field not poor 1… return enuff said been a good debate. …Wawaw
I do not fear immigration from Eastern Europe at all. I already work alongside many from the countries concerned after all as agency.
They learn our language, stay out of trouble, don’t bang on about human rights all the time, and generally keep their heads down. Full integration is well under way.
Overall, there are relatively few Eastern Europeans in this country that are not working or here to work.
This is the complete opposite to the “illegal” type of immigrants from OUTSIDE Europe outright, too many fleeing from countries that don’t have a welfare state - rather than where their lives are in genuine peril…
Everyone arriving here with “no papers” (never mind “no family”) is clearly here for the wrong reasons.
Even if they are actually from Syria for example - who’s to say that the well-kitted young male with no papers isn’t actually a deserter from his country’s national service that would otherwise have him fighting ISIS back home? “No papers” to me, when they are known to have paid racketeers thousands to get here - smacks of “hiding criminal status”. A deserter is a criminal in his own country at very least. If harsh punishment awaits re-patriated deserters (as it would have done in Britain itself during the world wars!) - then how come they are not getting off the bus at the first safe stop? Telling your kid that “We could stay here and be safe son, but I’m gonna risk your life and cross this sea to lands even further afield” knowing that death might befall your family as a result - could be construed as the worst kind of child neglect couldn’t it?
I can’t imagine countless Britons considering fleeing the UK right after the declaration of war with Germany in the last century…
We’ve got a completely different mentality to these people coming over for economic reasons now.
In Briton, we have a history of “standing and fighting” - even if it’s alone on the political stage, and even if it looks like we can’t win from the outset.
Britons that ran away from that - could expect to be shot. Who talks about granting asylum to deserting Brits from either of the world wars?
Even a clampdown on immigrants originating from outside of the EU “not getting in without being accompanied by a child” would go some way into filtering down the hoards otherwise arriving daily.
How are they going to intergrate? - They are mostly male, used to a patriarchal mentality where “Blokes are God”, brought no women of their own - thus upsetting the national gender balance, - and of course are draining the system the moment they arrive, weather they evade the authorities or not… The authorites are not even trying that hard to “process” such people". If we were net deporting more than the new arrivals - we’d be getting those net immigration numbers down to the levels the government originally promised us… But have failed miserably to achieve.
What happened to all those guys they find in the backs of trucks at MSAs? - Bet they’re not deported already… Each day they are still in the UK - they are costing the UK taxpayer more money.
THIS is the type of illegal immigrant that I want to see the back of.
Oh. But I can’t say that can I? - “Cos he’s Muslim" or “Cos he’s non-caucasian” or "Cos he says he’s fleeing a country under oppression” when strangely, cannot even prove he’s from that region…