boredwivdrivin:
Ive got a feeling these ex soviets think they are doing us a favour being here !!I saw a massive fall in living standard when these proles came …
And id glad take another to see the back of them
Are you really that dull? Can’t you read at least a history book before bashing people…
Its not peoples fault(any nationality) when they improve legally their life in UK, its you crooked politicians fault for leaving Brits behind.
BigBullDog ; that is just an administrative anomoly by the Kremlin .
Just because they didnt send delegates to the Supreme Soviet is only because they couldnt be trusted .
They could not act independantly from Moscow .
Think Prague Spring for the Czechs , another so called independant state .
They were all under Moscows thumb which is why they now all over here
Dolph . its english politicians fault for forgetting their history .
India , west indies , kiwi , south african etc are British Empire ; and share our culture , language , law and history .
You are Soviet Empire and share theirs
Fact
boredwivdrivin:
BigBullDog ; that is just an administrative anomoly by the Kremlin .Just because they didnt send delegates to the Supreme Soviet is only because they couldnt be trusted .
They could not act independantly from Moscow .
Think Prague Spring for the Czechs , another so called independant state .
They were all under Moscows thumb which is why they now all over here
Agreed, Poland among others were part of the Warsaw Pact and in reality they were under Soviet control. It is interesting thought how the ex soviet nations really hate the poles, wether that is Eastern European nations like Latvia or Russia, they all really hate the Poles.
I think its because so many of them wanted to fight for Hitler .
boredwivdrivin:
Dolph . its english politicians fault for forgetting their history .India , west indies , kiwi , south african etc are British Empire ; and share our culture , language , law and history .
You are Soviet Empire and share theirs
Fact
Fact is that you know NOTHING about history, affiliation, peoples feeling etc.
Well Bulgaria has 13 centuries of history span, 2 empires, slavery, 1 kingdom and communist dictatorship. The first empire was standing before Russia and Britain were even on the map of Europe, so no we share our own history gained by a lot of blood and suffering.
“We are soviet empire”, are you freaking kidding me 
. Probably the whole Eastern European countries joint NATO and want missile shield + NATO troops because we love the soviets
I refuse to accept that you know so little about Europe.
Dolph:
Carryfast:
You’ve conveniently missed the bit that leaving the EU gives us sovereignty over our immigration policy.To which the EU’s answer,according to those with your ideas,is to impose trade sanctions on us to make us comply with EU laws.In which case we obviously reserve the right to retaliate by imposing trade sanctions in return.However,unlike with just poor victimised Norway and Switzerland EFTA with us back in it would now be a net importer of EU goods and services.IE in trade deficit.Do you really want and can you afford an all out trade war in that case.If so good luck because we can only win it.Are you joking, we survived 45 years of communism with prison camps, no ownership of private property, no free speech, no nothing etc. we still cant recover of this regime and you think we are afraid of trade war with UK
Assuming that we are back where we belong with EFTA and then you want to impose trade sanctions on us because we refuse to tow the EU line you’ll need to be afraid.Very afraid.At least if you’ve got a reasonable grasp of maths and the definition of trade deficit v trade surplus.Bearing in mind by this point France will also most likely be well on its way out of the EU with the FN holding the balance of power.Which then just leaves the question of ze Germans. 
Unless my memory is failing me , britain has been here since north sea flooded !!
I grew up in a house older than your 13 Century history !!
You may not like the facts of history , but you are from under Soviet thumb . not British thumb .
Real Politik is like Evolution a cruel master . but you cant escape their realities , for long
Dolph:
boredwivdrivin:
Dolph . its english politicians fault for forgetting their history .India , west indies , kiwi , south african etc are British Empire ; and share our culture , language , law and history .
You are Soviet Empire and share theirs
Fact
Fact is that you know NOTHING about history, affiliation, peoples feeling etc.
Well Bulgaria has 13 centuries of history span, 2 empires, slavery, 1 kingdom and communist dictatorship. The first empire was standing before Russia and Britain were even on the map of Europe, so no we share our own history gained by a lot of blood and suffering.“We are soviet empire”, are you freaking kidding me
I refuse to accept that you know so little about Europe.
Enough to know that Yugoslavia turned against its Russian paymaster and natural slavic ally because the Russians decided that it wasn’t a good deal from Russia’s point of view.Then went to war among themselves based on the realisation that the nation state is more important and better than the idea of Federalism.
But now conveniently seem happy to get involved in another Federation because the payoff is better than looking after themselves.As for western Europe wanting to die for Eastern Europe we made that mistake in 1914.
While here’s a clue regards NATO.The US would rather threaten to nuke the UK than allow the UK to launch a strike against Russia in the knowledge that such a strike would bring retaliation against America.Which proves the lie of the ‘independent’ Brit nuclear ‘deterrent’ IE NATO is all about the defence of the US at the expense of Europe.So you can forget all about the defence angle just as much as the laughable idea of the EU winning a trade war against a UK led EFTA.
boredwivdrivin:
Unless my memory is failing me , britain has been here since north sea flooded !!I grew up in a house older than your 13 Century history !!
You may not like the facts of history , but you are from under Soviet thumb . not British thumb .
Real Politik is like Evolution a cruel master . but you cant escape their realities , for long
Actually it is you who can’t accept British realities in 2015…
Soviet thumb
Carryfast:
Dolph:
boredwivdrivin:
Dolph . its english politicians fault for forgetting their history .India , west indies , kiwi , south african etc are British Empire ; and share our culture , language , law and history .
You are Soviet Empire and share theirs
Fact
Fact is that you know NOTHING about history, affiliation, peoples feeling etc.
Well Bulgaria has 13 centuries of history span, 2 empires, slavery, 1 kingdom and communist dictatorship. The first empire was standing before Russia and Britain were even on the map of Europe, so no we share our own history gained by a lot of blood and suffering.“We are soviet empire”, are you freaking kidding me
I refuse to accept that you know so little about Europe.Enough to know that Yugoslavia turned against its Russian paymaster and natural slavic ally because the Russians decided that it wasn’t a good deal from Russia’s point of view.Then went to war among themselves based on the realisation that the nation state is more important and better than the idea of Federalism.
But now conveniently seem happy to get involved in another Federation because the payoff is better than looking after themselves.As for western Europe wanting to die for Eastern Europe we made that mistake in 1914.
While here’s a clue regards NATO.The US would rather threaten to nuke the UK than allow the UK to launch a strike against Russia in the knowledge that such a strike would bring retaliation against America.So you can forget all about the defence angle just as much as the laughable idea of the EU winning a trade war against a UK led EFTA.
Western European countries never fought for their Eastern counterparts, but only for their interests, tell this 1914 BS to someone else.
Dolph:
Carryfast:
Dolph:
boredwivdrivin:
Dolph . its english politicians fault for forgetting their history .India , west indies , kiwi , south african etc are British Empire ; and share our culture , language , law and history .
You are Soviet Empire and share theirs
Fact
Fact is that you know NOTHING about history, affiliation, peoples feeling etc.
Well Bulgaria has 13 centuries of history span, 2 empires, slavery, 1 kingdom and communist dictatorship. The first empire was standing before Russia and Britain were even on the map of Europe, so no we share our own history gained by a lot of blood and suffering.“We are soviet empire”, are you freaking kidding me
I refuse to accept that you know so little about Europe.Enough to know that Yugoslavia turned against its Russian paymaster and natural slavic ally because the Russians decided that it wasn’t a good deal from Russia’s point of view.Then went to war among themselves based on the realisation that the nation state is more important and better than the idea of Federalism.
But now conveniently seem happy to get involved in another Federation because the payoff is better than looking after themselves.As for western Europe wanting to die for Eastern Europe we made that mistake in 1914.
While here’s a clue regards NATO.The US would rather threaten to nuke the UK than allow the UK to launch a strike against Russia in the knowledge that such a strike would bring retaliation against America.So you can forget all about the defence angle just as much as the laughable idea of the EU winning a trade war against a UK led EFTA.
Western European countries never fought for their Eastern counterparts, but only for their interests, tell this 1914 BS to someone else.
If we were fighting for ‘our’ interests we’d have been fighting with Germany against Russia and Serbia. 
Carryfast:
Winseer:
Every truck coming into this country pays an entry visa of £200 which is roughly the difference in wages whilst here for the foreign incoming driver and what OUR driver would get forwarding the freight from a depot on the far side of the channel. Having our own drivers "go out to Calais/Dunquerque/Vlissengen etc. to bring it here - would help our under-siege jobs market quite a bit.If you want to increase the domestic demand for labour then you need to increase the amount of miles in the job.In which case a rule that 50% of international road freight journeys entering and leaving have to on Brit registered vehicles would do a lot more in that regard.
I dont think that would work - If every truck running out of a British depot with British numberplates/registered in Britain were ALL that were economically viable for the EU… We would just have the whole bloody lot of those same trucks all driven by “non-Brit” drivers. This would be easy to achieve whilst still in the EU - because it is discrimination to NOT give a job to a qualified foreigner BUT the reverse does not apply, as that would be racist - we’re told. A policy of “Natural Wastage of Brit Drivers” would ensue, and in 10 years time - the average age of a Brit Pro driver on our own roads - would be 63 instead of 53 as is the case now. 
If we don’t leave the EU - ANY changes to future policy, legislation, business practices, social engineering - will ALL be tilted against the home-grown Celtic or Anglo Saxon-ancestory Brit. 
mac12:
If Greece can organise an election every 2 months why does it take 4 years to organise this referendum
It takes “Until the end of the next parliament” to start doing anything. AND you have to “Vote them in with an unlikely majority” - just to make them walk towards the bloody division bell over it - let alone take the country automatically in the direction it wants to go in…
The only reason ANY government would possibly WANT to stay in the EU - is Bribery. Money either paid to the politicians directly, or cheap loans made to the frenzied-borrower Osbourne.
Wean ourselves off new debt - like a member of the public who cuts up their plastic cards - and we quickly realize that we CAN live within our means - simply by stop borrowing loads of new money from overseas - just to pay our continuing “subscriptions” to not only the EU - but all the disasterous EU policies like being forced to take on economic migrants, getting no help sifting through who’s who, no fasttrack labour market for OUR people trying to get jobs on the continent, and of course a bloated expense-based gravy train for EU representatives to flap in our faces like a rogue 4" ■■■■■ showing that HE’S boss - because he’s still got regular employment over all the unemployed 8" richards who are considered “Too Small”…
Herbert1561:
In. We will have far less power if we leave the EU, it is as simple as that. Those few select countries who negotiated their own independent agreements with the EEC (eg: Switzerland) did so under very different circumstances. Pulling out of the EU and then asking the rest of the EU to be nice to us is not going to work.Besides this, we are located right next to the largest economy in the world. The EU is larger than the USA and far larger than China. We have a free trade agreement with this immense market. We cannot in our right minds voluntarily choose to pull out of it, the whole idea is ridiculous. It would be like Canada choosing to pull out of NAFTA.
If we pull out there are some measurable savings that we will make instantly. And then the difficult to measure costs will kick in. The latter is FAR greater than the former. This would be economic suicide. Short of invading another country, there isn’t anything else we can do that would do more economic harm to our country than leaving the EU.
Wot power would THAT be then? 2 posts would indicate a built-in tin hat on your part.
Power is what you take from someone else - not what’s given to you - except as cold hard cash, and iron hard institutions that have not been ransacked to GET that cash.
If we pull out of the EU - we’ll be told “It’s against the law”. Like it’s “Against the law” for Palestinians to want their land back, but not “against the law” apparently for Israelies to murder women and kids trying to live a life on what should be their own land.
In other words - We leave the EU, and stand up to Brussels prompting us with it “being an act of war”. That’s a scary prospect to be sure - BRITAIN vs an American-backed United States of Germany which is what the EU essentially has become. We’d be better off siding with Putin’s Russia - and letting them take it all back themselves.
Churchill made his “Pact with the Devil” in WWII… There’s no reason we can’t do the same again, and let history repeat itself.
…Or… We can all get sensible and realize that anything the EU threatens us with - is actually a huge bluff, and always has been. 
Brussels Threats are nothing more than things like “Threatning to lose their own money if we don’t buckle under”. f…'em Let em lose more than we will, whilst we make our trade routes up with the rest of the world instead - if need be.
Brussels threatens the British People with “opting out of the Human Righs Charter - if we leave the EU”.?
F—'em. That’s a load of bull in legal fees we save with people no longer being able to bring superfluous cases against the British Government. You know - the ones like “I demand cosmetic surgery on the NHS” and suchlike.
The only people who should be afraid of the UK leaving the HRC - are the criminals or those with criminal intent.
We don’t do alright out of our trade with the EU. Thus, we’re better off out of it.
Canada does VERY nicely thanks very much - out of the NAFTA. They won’t pull out of THAT - because there’s no desire or need to!
The Americans don’t want to see NATO weakened or us making closer ties with the East - should we pull out of the EU.
I don’t think the French give a ■■■■ WHAT way things go. They once supported America against Britain, blew their wad, and got guillotined en-masse for their troubles. They’ll just go with the flow politically like the Italians go with the flow as surrender monkeys on the battlefield.
Of course dolphs country would be welcome to remain in Nato if they think that will protect them from the Russians .
Its membership has nothing at all to do with EU .
From dolphs potted history it seems they have been ‘bonk buddies’ to every passing tyrant or militia
In time of war dolphs army could provide vital reinforcement .
Perhaps to US pay corp .
The fact that these slavic countries are ‘independant’ is because no superpower wants them .
They are just a buffer zone to give warning of western armies moving east , or eastern armies moving west .
They are totally expendable .
The sooner we can divorce ourselves from them the safer we all will be .
Because the chances of american ‘boots on ground’ to defend a minor NATO nation is laughable, as is the idea they would hit the big button .
Real Politik
boredwivdrivin:
Of course dolphs country would be welcome to remain in Nato if they think that will protect them from the Russians .Its membership has nothing at all to do with EU .
From dolphs potted history it seems they have been ‘bonk buddies’ to every passing tyrant or militia
In time of war dolphs army could provide vital reinforcement .
Perhaps to US pay corp .
The fact that these slavic countries are ‘independant’ is because no superpower wants them .
They are just a buffer zone to give warning of western armies moving east , or eastern armies moving west .
They are totally expendable .
The sooner we can divorce ourselves from them the safer we all will be .
Because the chances of american ‘boots on ground’ to defend a minor NATO nation is laughable, as is the idea they would hit the big button .
Real Politik
Again you are talking gibberish with no knowledge of the so called real politic of yours.
NATO membership was a must in order to apply for EU membership for Eastern European countries.
Actually we have not been bonk buddies with every passing tyrant(we had a period of being slaves), but you are to dull to comprehend a history book.
C’mon have the guts and quit EU, divorce us all and be done with it.
You want to feel more important then EE
We are all expendable and sooner or later we will be 2m underground.
Carryfast:
CHAINSAW:
Surely Honda is a Japanese company■■? We might not have a British car industry anymore but from what I understand the British car factories (Honda, Nissan, jAGUAR) are all foreign owned - none European - yet are world class at what they are doing??It isn’t as simple as that.Being foreign owned they have no allegiance or ties here whatsoever.In which case the EU threatens them with trade sanctions and they obviously take the side of the EU.When at least from Jaguar’s point of view they’d have more to gain in a protected UK market environment which takes out the German competition here.With the win win situation that they’ll have to find a UK transmission supplier or make their own in house ones again so more jobs and training opportunities for Brit workers not German ones.Assuming that Tata don’t like it then that leaves the option of saying thanks for the investment now do one just like the Arabs did with the UK oil industry.
A long long time ago I was an apprentice fitter and I remember the college lecturer giving a lecture on the motor industry and it’s economic importance to a country, i.e. jobs, supplier jobs, local businesses benefiting etc etc.
His point was that most major first world countries had a viable and highly prized motor industry, and then Tony Blair let the last of ours go…
My point is we have all this foreign investment in our motor industry here with acclaimed world class workforce, so if we can do it for them why can’t we do it ourselves??
Look at the affects a major steel plant closing in Redcar is going to have on that community.
We seem to be able to fund third world countries and bail out banks but are incapable of running our own industry in this country, leave the EU and we might just be forced to become GREAT Britain again…
Winseer:
Carryfast:
Winseer:
Every truck coming into this country pays an entry visa of £200 which is roughly the difference in wages whilst here for the foreign incoming driver and what OUR driver would get forwarding the freight from a depot on the far side of the channel. Having our own drivers "go out to Calais/Dunquerque/Vlissengen etc. to bring it here - would help our under-siege jobs market quite a bit.If you want to increase the domestic demand for labour then you need to increase the amount of miles in the job.In which case a rule that 50% of international road freight journeys entering and leaving have to on Brit registered vehicles would do a lot more in that regard.
I dont think that would work - If every truck running out of a British depot with British numberplates/registered in Britain were ALL that were economically viable for the EU… We would just have the whole bloody lot of those same trucks all driven by “non-Brit” drivers. This would be easy to achieve whilst still in the EU - because it is discrimination to NOT give a job to a qualified foreigner BUT the reverse does not apply, as that would be racist - we’re told. A policy of “Natural Wastage of Brit Drivers” would ensue, and in 10 years time - the average age of a Brit Pro driver on our own roads - would be 63 instead of 53 as is the case now.
If we don’t leave the EU - ANY changes to future policy, legislation, business practices, social engineering - will ALL be tilted against the home-grown Celtic or Anglo Saxon-ancestory Brit.
I was actually referring to an environment in which we are no longer in the EU.
boredwivdrivin:
Of course dolphs country would be welcome to remain in Nato if they think that will protect them from the Russians .Its membership has nothing at all to do with EU .
From dolphs potted history it seems they have been ‘bonk buddies’ to every passing tyrant or militia
In time of war dolphs army could provide vital reinforcement .
Perhaps to US pay corp .
The fact that these slavic countries are ‘independant’ is because no superpower wants them .
They are just a buffer zone to give warning of western armies moving east , or eastern armies moving west .
They are totally expendable .
The sooner we can divorce ourselves from them the safer we all will be .
Because the chances of american ‘boots on ground’ to defend a minor NATO nation is laughable, as is the idea they would hit the big button .
Real Politik
To be fair the graves of US forces across Europe shows that they certainly are prepared to help us out when they don’t really need to.
However the issue of pressing the button is something else.Because they have an aversion to risking their homeland as part of the MAD strategy.The result being the effective winding up of their strategic nuclear threat and a combination of appeasement in the face of at least a clear Chinese and Korean threat and a policy of ‘containment’ of any potential Russian one.By extending NATO’s remit to Russia’s borders.NATO’s remit in that case being the defence of the US to the last European by taking advantage of historic internal wavering slavic animosities.All the signs are that ‘the west’ faces a massive potential threat from a united Chinese/Russian/Arab/Asian force on numerous fronts and the US answer to that is lets reduce our nuclear capability and make a few friends in Eastern Europe by offering them a better bribe than their natural slavic Russian ally.Meanwhile,as expected,Eastern Europe is waving the first pioneers of that Arab invasion force through with the help of Stasi agent Merkel.