Well after a 127 years of manufacturing in my home town of Nottingham
I now along with 647 of my colleagues join the hundreds of thousands of people who with the help of the EU the Tories the New Labour con and coalition have lost their jobs
As an outsider, reading and listening what Brits say, I got to tell you the average Brit is blaming everything bad in UK on EU, regardless of what it is. Even though is clearly a Labor and Tory governments that are at fault. Bot Labor and Tory are been elected over and over regardless of their screw ups, Im guessing its EU fault as well
Like the latest example of Tory Gov pushing for lower tax on Chinese steel import, keeping the current tax at 19 cents when the EU wanted 66 cents tax.
On relocating factories to eastern EU, I don’t think its EU as much to blame as a globalization over all, US manufacturing has gone to China, Vietnam, Indonesia etc. yet US has little under 5% unemployment and its doing better then ever.
P.S.I was reading a story yesterday in DM about Bosnian shoplifter girl crew being arrested and jailed. Every single comment underneath the article was:" EU is to blame, EU open border policy is to blame, vote Brexit its EU fault this people are in our country etc". having hundreds of green arrows.
I didnt know Bosnia is in EU and Schengen…
How many of you think being out of EU will stop the outsourcing? Do you think post Brexit manufacturing will return to UK?
Do you think UK will be better outside EU with this Tory and Labor politicians?
Just curious, not meant to start a verbal war, just heaving a discussion!
Very fair point Dolph.
Yes the EU gets blamed, mainly because we’re stuck in it, because our corrupt career politicians have each in turn handed ever more power to the EU, endorsed i have to say by Her Maj who signed off on Lisbon Treaty maker her an EU citizen too.
No matter which colour the party representing the British electorate, who for some reason keep putting the same identikit traitors into office yet expect a different result next time 
, actually has no power and to be fair has no guts nor intention of standing up to Merkel and her fourth reich.
Until Britain leaves the EU, pipe dream we all know deep in our hearts, it doesn’t matter which of the traitors sits in number 10 or which of the incompetents cooks the books in number 11, we are stuck with obeying Merkel’s orders.
If we get out, we can then start to rebuild our own country, hopefully with some level headed experienced business heads having more input.
For what its worth, i am under no illusions that we’ll leave, i fully expect to see my last days out still under the German jackboot, and with history rewritten who’s going to query it all in another 20 years…
We can’t even get the Chilcot enquiry to do their duty and publish, what hope our children ever learning the truth about the subjugation of europe under German rule without a shot being fired.
Juddian:
Carryfast:
Winseer:
Corbyn talks about ending Austerity. How TF can we do that if we’re giving all our hard-earned away
Osbourne promised to get the deficit down -We won’t get the deficit down while the economists are in denial about the link between trade deficits and national debt.While we won’t sort the trade deficit unless we get our industrial strength up and running again on the basis that we can’t export our way back into trade balance.In which case it’s obvious that EU membership is a lose lose situation in that regard in being one big foreign aid scam to benefit Germany and US geopolitical aims in Eastern Europe.
That’s one of the best and most concise on the money posts you’ve ever put up.
Spot on CF.
An economy now based primarily on the housing bubble which goes hand in hand with constant high immigration to operate a service industry (a contradiction in terms if ever i heard one)…what could possibly go wrong.
If we’re losing money on the majority of our EU trade (which we are apparently) then surely ceasing those trade routes and re-creating new ones - cannot make things any worse than they are now? On the other hand - any gain at all is sheer profit by comparison. From the floor, the only way is up. 
Osbourne is wrong to talk about the deficit all the time, as it’s like maxing out the credit card each and every month, but saying you’ve cut the deficit by transferring your entire balance to a slightly cheaper interest rate “other card” deal…
Dolph:
As an outsider, reading and listening what Brits say, I got to tell you the average Brit is blaming everything bad in UK on EU, regardless of what it is. Even though is clearly a Labor and Tory governments that are at fault. Bot Labor and Tory are been elected over and over regardless of their screw ups, Im guessing its EU fault as well
Like the latest example of Tory Gov pushing for lower tax on Chinese steel import, keeping the current tax at 19 cents when the EU wanted 66 cents tax.
On relocating factories to eastern EU, I don’t think its EU as much to blame as a globalization over all, US manufacturing has gone to China, Vietnam, Indonesia etc. yet US has little under 5% unemployment and its doing better then ever.P.S.I was reading a story yesterday in DM about Bosnian shoplifter girl crew being arrested and jailed. Every single comment underneath the article was:" EU is to blame, EU open border policy is to blame, vote Brexit its EU fault this people are in our country etc". having hundreds of green arrows.
I didnt know Bosnia is in EU and Schengen…
How many of you think being out of EU will stop the outsourcing? Do you think post Brexit manufacturing will return to UK?
Do you think UK will be better outside EU with this Tory and Labor politicians?Just curious, not meant to start a verbal war, just heaving a discussion!
Firstly the issue of Eastern Europe in the EU isn’t exactly the same thing as the global free market issue.In that the former is more about US aims regards pushing NATO’s remit further eastwards,using economic ‘sweeteners’ to break historic slavic ties to do it.No surprise that just as in the case of the post WW2 stitch up we are expected to be one of if not the main contributor to those ‘sweeteners’.The fact that the CBI and big business sees a cheap labour advantage in that is just a bonus from their point of view.Which explains why the EU has shown no intention of introducing an EU wide minimum wage based on the highest denominator.
Meanwhile you’re obviously basing your ideas on an obviously limited short term view when the issues from our point of view go back to 1972 and what took place then and since.IE Heath undoubtedly sold out our national interest and sovereignty in the form of a country which was in a position to over take Germany economically.Then having to hand that initiative over in large part to meet US geopolitical aims regarding that post War agenda,in which keeping Germany happy was and still is seen as being more important than us.That idea obviously now having back fired big time with Germany having been taken over and infiltrated by East German Socialist interests in the form of Merkel and Britain being turned into a banana republic with no bananas.
As for the race to the bottom global free market supposedly being good for the US.Suggest you check out any of the usually accepted economic pointers like average incomes in real terms,trade deficit,unemployment,economic growth,and national debt there for 1966 v 2016 for example.
Just as in the case of ours 1972 v 2016.
Winseer:
If we’re losing money on the majority of our EU trade (which we are apparently) then surely ceasing those trade routes and re-creating new ones - cannot make things any worse than they are now? On the other hand - any gain at all is sheer profit by comparison. From the floor, the only way is up.Osbourne is wrong to talk about the deficit all the time, as it’s like maxing out the credit card each and every month, but saying you’ve cut the deficit by transferring your entire balance to a slightly cheaper interest rate “other card” deal…
It’s the trade ‘balance’ which is the issue.Which in our case translates as importing loads of stuff which we can make for ourselves to a point which way exceeds the value of exports thereby creating debt to pay the difference.In addition to putting our own workforce on the dole or under paying service sector non jobs.Our trading relationship with the EU being one of the main contributors to that situation with no reason to believe that staying with the global free market would be any better.
IE we need to ditch both based on the realisation that it’s all about replacing imports with domestic industry.Not trying to do mission impossible of matching our unsustainable rate of imports with unwanted exports in a saturated self suffucient export market world.
Carryfast:
Bluey Circles:
two of the more appealing aspects of being within the EU for me are, better protection for the environment and better protection for workers rights.‘Better protection for the environment’ in this case translates as us adhering to rules made the Germans etc while the Germans subsidise their industrial competitiveness by opening new coal fired power stations.
As for workers rights you mean like no EU wide and enforced minimum wage which makes cheap East Euro labour more attractive to exploitative organisations like the CBI and transfer of western capital for investment in East Euro industry.Or movement ( economic migration ) of East Euro labour thereby distorting western developed labour markets.As for the road transport industry worker’s rights like all the above and lifting of cabotage restrictions adding to the issues and ‘the right’ to have knackered drivers running around working 15 hour shifts.
“Better protection for the environment” is going to end up as it always does - a mass cull of mankind in some part of the world. Now we’re in the “global” era, that could be anywhere and everywhere of course. There’s too many people on the planet as it is. As numbers increase further, any local “prosperity” gets further and further diluted. A “Mass Cull” in the third world is usually in the shape of a massive natural disaster, like the Asian Tsunami 2004. In the “developed West” though - World Wars are the norm. I wonder how many people won’t want to rock the boat by voting leave - because they are afraid of a divided society that goes to war, either civil or vs the Euroblock we are trying to break away from?
The only way we’re ever going to get “World Union” is for an autocrat with god-like powers to take over the whole world - and then “be nice” as a benevolent dictator of the world once done.
The very notion that people of different languages, races, and religions can find anywhere near enough in common to agree “good policy for all” - is as daft as the superstitions of past ages, and ideas like “Empires that last a thousand years”…
Winseer:
I wonder how many people won’t want to rock the boat by voting leave - because they are afraid of a divided society that goes to war, either civil or vs the Euroblock we are trying to break away from?
Ironically the lessons of 1861 in America and the breakup of the former Yugoslavia among loads of other wars of self determination and secession suggest that not voting to leave is the biggest threat in that regard to future generations of Brits.
While the idea of friends with fences in the form of national borders is on balance the better ideal.European wars mostly if not all being the result of despotic nutters like Napoleon and Hitler wanting the opposite in trying to form European federations of whatever type and trying to dissolve national borders at the point of a gun.
To which the answer of people like Heath was/is lets pre empt the Napoleons and Hitlers of this world,by dissolving those borders ourselves,for them instead.
What happened to the in / out survey that was at the top of the page
boredwivdrivin:
You were wrong voting for dave and his smarmy workshy pals .Dont be wrong a second time !!
so,who would you see in power,labour or liberals,they are worse than the conservatives,they would ruin this country,if I remember correctly [I could be wrong]but didn’t labour almost bankrupt this country,and if the liberals had their way our borders would be open to everybody,but they are all as bad as each other,we vote them in to do whats best for us I would like to know when they intend to start doing so
Carryfast:
Winseer:
I wonder how many people won’t want to rock the boat by voting leave - because they are afraid of a divided society that goes to war, either civil or vs the Euroblock we are trying to break away from?Ironically the lessons of 1861 in America and the breakup of the former Yugoslavia among loads of other wars of self determination and secession suggest that not voting to leave is the biggest threat in that regard to future generations of Brits.
While the idea of friends with fences in the form of national borders is on balance the better ideal.European wars mostly if not all being the result of despotic nutters like Napoleon and Hitler wanting the opposite in trying to form European federations of whatever type and trying to dissolve national borders at the point of a gun.
To which the answer of people like Heath was/is lets pre empt the Napoleons and Hitlers of this world,by dissolving those borders ourselves,for them instead.
If there were to be a “Despotic Nutter” for the 21st Century…
It would be they who start invading other countries, and ultimately lose that war.
What about someone who doesn’t invade other countries, and ultimately wins a war without a shot being fired?
One could argue that THIS is the EU ultimate goal.
If we tried to break away, but ultimately failed - our leaders would be branded “Despotic Nutters leading their own country to ruin”. Ie. We try to leave, the EU doesn’t let us, we leave anyway - and the EU wages war against the UK, which they then win…
It’s all about where you stand. I don’t believe for one minute that the EU has “given up on bloodshed” - only "just for now, until their brand of diplomacy has failed.
I think right now there is a great danger that we could be in the same part of history as North America 1771, South Africa 1878, India/Palestine right after the second world war, or the worst-case scenario - South America 1492… Who would have thought among native Americans that over 90% of their population would be wiped out within a couple of centuries? - It Wasn’t even done by “War” as such. 
The biggest uncertainty is what the EU will do to us if we DARE to up-sticks and leave…
There are already hints that there will be trade embargos are there not?
Trade Embargoes are an act of war when carried out against a country you’re supposed to be at peace with.
Either they won’t happen then, or they will - and we’ll end up with WWIII beginning in Europe rather than the long-expected Middle East prime suspect that modern scholars predict as being “the more likely start of WWIII”
I reckon it’s worth trying to call their bluff on this - we’re better able to defend ourselves as a nation NOW than we will be in another decade or so’s time when we’ll have no access to the resources to build weaponry of our own to fight any kind of “real” war. If Corbyn has his way - we won’t even have Trident by then as a “Last resort” either.
Winseer:
If there were to be a “Despotic Nutter” for the 21st Century…What about someone who doesn’t invade other countries, and ultimately wins a war without a shot being fired?
One could argue that THIS is the EU ultimate goal.
If we tried to break away, but ultimately failed - our leaders would be branded “Despotic Nutters leading their own country to ruin”. Ie. We try to leave, the EU doesn’t let us, we leave anyway - and the EU wages war against the UK, which they then win…
It’s all about where you stand. I don’t believe for one minute that the EU has “given up on bloodshed” - only "just for now, until their brand of diplomacy has failed.
I think right now there is a great danger that we could be in the same part of history as North America 1771
As I’ve said the situation we’re in now parallels that of where America was at the time when it chose the Federal governmental system over Confederal and Yugoslavia when it chose Federalism and ethnic integration over Nationalism.1861-1865 and 1991-2001 being the foreseeable result respectively. 
I was actually hoping we could avoid using the world “Federal” there. 
WW3 over UK EU membership, are you f***ing kidding me. Europe will declare war on UK 
You got good drinks and imagination.
But if we think about it, no war needed, just one or more industries leaving making huge unemployment and inciting fear is enough to make people change their minds and demand second referendum, resulting in Britain staying into EU.
Winseer:
I was actually hoping we could avoid using the world “Federal” there.
Sorry but it’s unavoidable in pointing out the serious potentially catastrophic effects of EU membership in the long term for future generations going by previous examples. 
Dolph:
WW3 over UK EU membership, are you f***ing kidding me. Europe will declare war on UK
You got good drinks and imagination.
But if we think about it, no war needed, just one or more industries leaving making huge unemployment and inciting fear is enough to make people change their minds and demand second referendum, resulting in Britain staying into EU.
A future EU war of secession doesn’t exactly fit the description of WW3. But it does fit the lessons of history whether 1861 America or 1991 Yugoslavia for just two examples.On that note I’d guess that there were plenty of people who supported the change in the original US Constitution from Confederal to Federal and the creation of Yugoslavia who would have said the same as you.
The fact that you’re already threatening us with trade sanctions for the ‘crime’ of seceding now shows where things might lead to in two or more generations time in that regard.In which case it’s probably better to face down the empty threats of trade sanctions,from our position of trade deficit strength now, than condemn future generations to a potential war of secession later.
It’s out for me! I know there are pro’s and con’s you take the rough with the smooth but ultimately I want Britain to gain it’s democracy back… Simple as
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Carryfast:
Dolph:
WW3 over UK EU membership, are you f***ing kidding me. Europe will declare war on UK
You got good drinks and imagination.
But if we think about it, no war needed, just one or more industries leaving making huge unemployment and inciting fear is enough to make people change their minds and demand second referendum, resulting in Britain staying into EU.A future EU war of secession doesn’t exactly fit the description of WW3.
Dolph didn’t introduce the WW3 narrative mate, so the rolling eyes is a bit strong.
As for saying that Dolph is in charge or responsible for possible trade sanctions/threats, is a bit like you saying you’re in-charge of foreign policy!
Evil8Beezle:
Carryfast:
Dolph:
WW3 over UK EU membership, are you f***ing kidding me. Europe will declare war on UK
You got good drinks and imagination.
But if we think about it, no war needed, just one or more industries leaving making huge unemployment and inciting fear is enough to make people change their minds and demand second referendum, resulting in Britain staying into EU.A future EU war of secession doesn’t exactly fit the description of WW3.
Dolph didn’t introduce the WW3 narrative mate, so the rolling eyes is a bit strong.
As for saying that Dolph is in charge or responsible for possible trade sanctions/threats, is a bit like you saying you’re in-charge of foreign policy!
Dolph certainly did make the analogy between ‘WW3’ and a possible future UK v EU war of secession which I’ve described.It’s there in the first line of the quote.
As for the reference to trade sanctions he’s made it clear that he ‘supports’ the idea of the EU hitting us with such sanctions if we decide to leave and it’s that support which I was referring to.