We are British let’s rule our own country again, and say who we take in. VOTE OUT.
Carryfast:
Dolph:
WW3 over UK EU membership, are you f***ing kidding me. Europe will declare war on UK
You got good drinks and imagination.
But if we think about it, no war needed, just one or more industries leaving making huge unemployment and inciting fear is enough to make people change their minds and demand second referendum, resulting in Britain staying into EU.A future EU war of secession doesn’t exactly fit the description of WW3.
But it does fit the lessons of history whether 1861 America or 1991 Yugoslavia for just two examples.On that note I’d guess that there were plenty of people who supported the change in the original US Constitution from Confederal to Federal and the creation of Yugoslavia who would have said the same as you.
**The fact that you’re already threatening us with trade sanctions for the ‘crime’ of seceding now shows where things might lead to in two or more generations time in that regard.**In which case it’s probably better to face down the empty threats of trade sanctions,from our position of trade deficit strength now, than condemn future generations to a potential war of secession later.
No one is threatening you, its just simple facts, once outside EU you will be treated as third party and everything you make will be in a direct competition with other EU countries. The only sensible approach will be trade tariffs on UK export to mainland Europe in order to protect its members. Or you think everything will be milk and honey, many Brexiters believe UK can ditch EU but keep all the good thing about it - free trade, Brits living on the continents, sell British made goods and services to EU.
Carryfast:
Evil8Beezle:
Carryfast:
Dolph:
WW3 over UK EU membership, are you f***ing kidding me. Europe will declare war on UK
You got good drinks and imagination.
But if we think about it, no war needed, just one or more industries leaving making huge unemployment and inciting fear is enough to make people change their minds and demand second referendum, resulting in Britain staying into EU.A future EU war of secession doesn’t exactly fit the description of WW3.
Dolph didn’t introduce the WW3 narrative mate, so the rolling eyes is a bit strong.
As for saying that Dolph is in charge or responsible for possible trade sanctions/threats, is a bit like you saying you’re in-charge of foreign policy!Dolph certainly did make the analogy between ‘WW3’ and a possible future UK v EU war of secession which I’ve described.It’s there in the first line of the quote.
As for the reference to trade sanctions he’s made it clear that he ‘supports’ the idea of the EU hitting us with such sanctions if we decide to leave and it’s that support which I was referring to.
Of course, because you will be an external of the union competitor. Last week I both British potatoes cheaper then Bulgarian once in my local supermarket…
Dolph:
Carryfast:
**The fact that you’re already threatening us with trade sanctions for the ‘crime’ of seceding now shows where things might lead to in two or more generations time in that regard.**In which case it’s probably better to face down the empty threats of trade sanctions,from our position of trade deficit strength now, than condemn future generations to a potential war of secession later.No one is threatening you, its just simple facts, once outside EU you will be treated as third party and everything you make will be in a direct competition with other EU countries. The only sensible approach will be trade tariffs on UK export to mainland Europe in order to protect its members. Or you think everything will be milk and honey, many Brexiters believe UK can ditch EU but keep all the good thing about it - free trade, Brits living on the continents, sell British made goods and services to EU.
Which part of the fact that having slaughtered our manufacturing industry for one,in favour of EU imports,resulting in a massive trade deficit,we would actually benefit from/need a trade war with the EU,don’t you understand.On that note the in campaigners believe that a trade war with the EU would be all one sided when it’s the EU,especially Germany,which has much more to lose.IE why should we give a zb about what the Socialist dominated French government want or say or their biased in campaign propaganda in the Brit media.
As for the idea of free movement like the trade issue and net contributions it’s now just turned into the net burden of an open door for east european economic migration anyway.Let alone Merkel wanting to open the door to Asia.Although I don’t remember any major obstacles to movement between the western European countries,including us,before we joined.
While as I said empty threats of economic sanctions if we secede now v possibly the very real threat of force to future generations if we leave it to them to secede later. 
So now you blame all of your manufacturing problems on EU, like UK economy was any great early 70’s.
I bet the Germans can replace UK customers with others in the world, slowly but can, and what will you replace the fancy German or other EU cars with. Yes trade tariffs goes 2 ways, but don’t think you will have the upper hand in any future negotiations because you will not.
"For the rest: “Of the 13 million low-skilled jobs, 84% are held by UK born workers and 16% (some 2 million) by migrants. These 2 million low-skilled jobs held by migrants split 60:40 non-EU:EU.” (Migration Advisory Committee Report, July 2014). So around 6% of low skilled jobs are done by EU migrants. All hysteria.
The ones that actually run the biggest deficit of tax contributions vs. public spending are British citizens and non-EU migrants. Additionally, according to a study by UCL, EU migrants make a contribution of £1.34 for every £1 spent. The argument that our “public services are overrun” has nothing to do with immigrants, it has everything to do with Tory austerity policies - “we’re all in it together”.
But as with the migrants I work with they plan to leave the UK when they have saved the set amount they want in one case it’s £40,000 and he is not far off it, they work hard and save hard living 10 to a small flat. But when they leave the UK they can claim all the UK tax back they have paid (can’t come back for 5 years as a result). So all the tax and money they have made leave the UK economy by undercutting a UK worker by working on minimum wage (or below).
Dolph:
So now you blame all of your manufacturing problems on EU, like UK economy was any great early 70’s.
I bet the Germans can replace UK customers with others in the world, slowly but can, and what will you replace the fancy German or other EU cars with. Yes trade tariffs goes 2 ways, but don’t think you will have the upper hand in any future negotiations because you will not."For the rest: “Of the 13 million low-skilled jobs, 84% are held by UK born workers and 16% (some 2 million) by migrants. These 2 million low-skilled jobs held by migrants split 60:40 non-EU:EU.” (Migration Advisory Committee Report, July 2014). So around 6% of low skilled jobs are done by EU migrants. All hysteria.
The ones that actually run the biggest deficit of tax contributions vs. public spending are British citizens and non-EU migrants. Additionally, according to a study by UCL, EU migrants make a contribution of £1.34 for every £1 spent. The argument that our “public services are overrun” has nothing to do with immigrants, it has everything to do with Tory austerity policies - “we’re all in it together”.
Firstly have you got the slightest clue as to what you’re saying regards our economic position in 1972 v today. As for Germany if it thinks it can do better with us out of it then why is Merkel so keen on making us stay.Probably the economic realisation of the fact that Germany would have to make up the lost net contribution and the fact that Germany is more reliant on exporting to us than we are to Germany.
Feel free to explain how economic migration from East Europe helps the UK economy.IE more demand for housing and services,increased labour supply meaning downward pressure on wage rates meaning downward pressure on tax revenues and higher unemployment among the indigenous population.To the point where we’ve got our own young people funding their own unemployment in the form of student ‘loans’ and/or lumbered with other low paying alternatives or joining the military as a last option in a saturated over supplied labour market.On that note the fact that tax revenues are down among our own just confirms the fact that too many foreigners are taking what jobs we’ve got left after losing much of the jobs we had to EU imports.
I got it, its always EU fault, not your incompetent or greedy politicians who are in bed with big business to screw up everyone reelected by the very same British people they screw over and over. British government pushed for EE membership, supported wars in the ME accumulating debt in UK, British business outsourced to EE and imported workers, British government refuse to implement higher wages like in the rest western EU countries, British benefit system is the most outdated and open for abuse by anyone in EU, every single member country fixed that long time ago; BUT Its the EE migrant fault that he/she can legally work in EU with the help of British government(Thanks Tony). Every single think is blamed on EE migrant. You talk about student loan, well UK is freaking crazy, and thats the truth, what kind of country expect people who are non residents or citizens to be bind of paying back, what kind of stupid policy is to give people in this category(non British citizens) money. In few years time this people flew back or go to a third country and forget about it.
Keep screaming against EU citizens into UK, when the non EU are TWICE more, but no one mention them(its always EU migrant fault) and this are people who UK can control immediately but do nothing about it.
Keep blaming EU citizens, when you are the country producing more migrant in the whole of Europe, same size population of British citizens live in EU as EU citizens in UK. The difference you get hard working, already educated individuals who contribute to British society and we get British pensioners…
Regarding economy, tariffs and all of this, no we don’t need a war, but the fact is you gonna need EU market in order to sustain growth and normal life. As much as some Brexiters repeat “they need us more then we do”, some studies show the exact opposite.
Denmark (3rd Customer: 8% of their exports)
Germany (3rd Customer: 7% of their exports)
Ireland (2nd: 15%)
Cyprus (2nd: 10%)
Netherlands (3rd: 9%)
Poland (2nd: 6%)
and Sweden (3rd: 7%)
Those are the countries that have the most to lose from a “dry” Brexit (no trade deal afterward)
niesr.ac.uk/blog/after-brexi … xYRW5x96M8
According to the article 50 of the Treaty of Lisbon: the parting deal should be approved by Qualified Majority Voting which requires both:
● A majority of populations: 65%; and
● A majority of countries: 72%, since the parting treaty will neither be proposed by the Commission, nor by the European High Representative. With 27 countries involved, it means 20 countries.
Suppose the seven countries above will accept a trade deal: their ■■■■■■■■■ population is 30.9%. Since the 12.7% of the british population will not count, it would be adjusted to 35.4%.
So roughly, the UK will need the help of 13 more countries totaling about 30% of the population of the rest of the Union. And that is only if the seven listed above agree in the first place. This means the approval of at least two out of Spain (adjusted to 10.4%), France (adjusted to 15%) and Italy (adjusted to 13.7%) will be necessary…
I guess some members would be delighted to use this as a lever to settle old grievances with the UK:
● Spain (adjusted to 10.4%) with Gibraltar;
● Ireland (adjusted to 1.0%) with Carlingford Lough and Lough Foyle.
● Cyprus (adjusted to 0.2%) with the British Sovereign Base Area of Dhekelia.
So in short, only Ireland and Cyprus would have more than 10% of their exports impacted by a “nose cutting” and their populations weight is light…
Interesting… Gove makes a great speech, and the price on the betting exchanges has finally moved significantly for the first time since the date was declared… Odds on 1/2 Remain has drifted out to odds-on 4/6 - quite a significant move in betting terms!
… I am full of hope that the tide is finally turning against the Remain bulls… 
Dolph:
Germany (3rd Customer: 7% of their exports)
I think the credibility of that statement says it all.We’re actually 2nd only to the United States in terms of Germany’s ‘trade surplus’ figure IE the German economy is disproportionately over reliant on the UK market for it’s income.Which is what matters if/when push comes to shove regarding the trade war which we actually need so as to stop the UK economy subsidising the German economy in the form of imports.Together with the lose lose situation of paying a fortune in net contributions to subsidise the living standards of Eastern Europe.
While as I said we know that our politicians are a bunch of zb’s.But the fact remains we had stronger unions,in a more Fordist economic environment,hence a higher wage environment in real terms,with better economic figures to prove it,in 1972 than 1973 onward.IE there is a clear correlation between Germany’s economic rise and our fall from that point on.Which is just as traitor Heath intended.Bearing all that in mind the key to us getting out will be swinging the Labour vote in which case it’s anyone’s guess how that vote sees staying in as an advantage when every figure that matters says that the working class of this country was better off out.As opposed to their employers selling out their jobs and living standards to the foreign aid scam which was/is the EU.Which just leaves the question of what happens when American workers realise that they are also being stitched up just the same as Brits,in the form of American jobs for German workers,on the same rigged trade balance in favour of Germany basis.
Winseer:
Interesting… Gove makes a great speech, and the price on the betting exchanges has finally moved significantly for the first time since the date was declared… Odds on 1/2 Remain has drifted out to odds-on 4/6 - quite a significant move in betting terms!… I am full of hope that the tide is finally turning against the Remain bulls…
Bearing in mind the importance of swinging the Labour vote.We had some Labour Party canvassers at the door yesterday regarding the local elections in what is more or less safe Conservative territory. 
In which the subject of funding of local authorities arose.At which point I pointed out Labour’s support of the in campaign and the amount of cash being thrown away in EU contributions.Among other small matters like the strength of the economy,unions and domestic labour market in 1972 v now.At which point they explained that they were too young to know about people like Peter Shore or Tony Benn etc but the name Kate Hoey did ring a bell.Let’s just say that they left with a different view regards EU membership and Corbyn’s leadership than they arrived with. 
Dolph not everyone is anti immigrant however the uncontrolled migration that has occurred due to the EU does get people’s backs up, prior to the uncontrolled immigration it was only idiots on the far right who kept going on about it.
My reason for voting out is the fact that the EU is one massive Ponzi scheme it is unsustainable for the richer nations to be sustaining the poorer ones while still giving them loans that they know cannot be paid back. After 10 years of membership Poland is still heavily reliant on EU aid (and the largest recipient of it to) and the fact that it’s population has to go elsewhere for decent paying work. When the next round of country’s are allowed in it will be Bulgaria and Romania who will suffer, until RO and BG joined cheap traction was carried out by in the main the Poles, they have now been replaced by the RO and BG. Why? were the Poles not doing a good enough job for the last 10 years or is it that big business has no loyalty and used the BG and RO as they are cheaper so in the next round of accession they will be replaced by the new boys.
One of the largest hauliers in Ireland is replacing his drivers with Romanians and the Poles are complaining that they have been undercut so much for improving living standards, the EU is the only region in the world where across the continent living standards have not improved in the last 10 years, France is nearly bankrupt the Mediterranean country’s are suffering massively hardly a shining example to the rest of the world for economic competence
mazzer:
Dolph not everyone is anti immigrant however the uncontrolled migration that has occurred due to the EU does get people’s backs up, prior to the uncontrolled immigration it was only idiots on the far right who kept going on about it.
My reason for voting out is the fact that the EU is one massive Ponzi scheme it is unsustainable for the richer nations to be sustaining the poorer ones while still giving them loans that they know cannot be paid back. After 10 years of membership Poland is still heavily reliant on EU aid (and the largest recipient of it to) and the fact that it’s population has to go elsewhere for decent paying work. When the next round of country’s are allowed in it will be Bulgaria and Romania who will suffer, until RO and BG joined cheap traction was carried out by in the main the Poles, they have now been replaced by the RO and BG. Why? were the Poles not doing a good enough job for the last 10 years or is it that big business has no loyalty and used the BG and RO as they are cheaper so in the next round of accession they will be replaced by the new boys.
One of the largest hauliers in Ireland is replacing his drivers with Romanians and the Poles are complaining that they have been undercut so much for improving living standards, the EU is the only region in the world where across the continent living standards have not improved in the last 10 years, France is nearly bankrupt the Mediterranean country’s are suffering massively hardly a shining example to the rest of the world for economic competence
All valid arguments mate and I understand what you say. Thanks for the comment that not everyone is anti immigrant, because after reading comments here and there Im left with the impression that BG/RO/PL are the menace on the planet, guilty for every problem in UK and not a word about crocked politicians or British voters who keep electing them.
Dolph:
All valid arguments mate and I understand what you say. Thanks for the comment that not everyone is anti immigrant, because after reading comments here and there Im left with the impression that BG/RO/PL are the menace on the planet, guilty for every problem in UK and not a word about crocked politicians or British voters who keep electing them.
In the case of the immigration question the East Euros are just reading it as what they want to believe.The definition of anti immigration means ( should mean ) enough we’re full and we’ve taken on too much economic migration/immigration already which really ideally needs to be reversed let alone allowing more in.IE no particular discriminatory view regarding East Euro ( EU ) v Asia or Africa ( so called ‘Commonwealth’ ).Although having said that yes I’d agree that the slavic culture is a ( relatively ) less alien one culturally.But still no reason to think that it shouldn’t be subject to the idea of the nation state on the basis of friends with fences and stand on your own feet economically instead of expecting others to look after you and putting your economic burden on anyone perceived as being economically more better off.
Carryfast:
Bluey Circles:
two of the more appealing aspects of being within the EU for me are, better protection for the environment and better protection for workers rights.‘Better protection for the environment’ in this case translates as us adhering to rules made the Germans etc while the Germans subsidise their industrial competitiveness by opening new coal fired power stations.
When will people learn that the EU is set up for the benefit of one country. Germany. (With the French farmers getting an easy subsidised ride as well)
The Coal that their new powerstation will be burning is Lignite, Brown Coal, just one step up from Peat.
And they are building at least 35 plants to replace their non CO2 producing Nuclear Plants.
dw.com/en/german-co2-emissio … a-18862708
I was arguing with a Green on Facebook recently, and they trotted out “We should be like Germany”, I responded absoluley “F*ck everyone else, we’ll look after ourselves, and then throw a bit of money at the problem, afterwards, while telling everyone else their lazy, while scratching about, all the while keeping the currency low enough that we can export and while making sure we are rich” - it’s the German way. Now where’s my Mercedes-Benz.
Today, a ■■■■■ who messed about with 6 month old kids, got jail time.
Due to the interpretation by the Judges in the European Court of Justice, of the “European Convention on Human Rights”, we are not allowed by treaty, to put this Scum to death, even if we brought back Capital Punishment for the crime, by an independent citizens referendum.
Not only that, if we did, the court could order the seizure of UK assets.
If you cannot make laws to govern yourself, then are you actually a nation any more ?
■■?
Not long now for our independence day…fingers xd it will b close but I think we will do it …im English not European …love going round europe…hate the ■■■■ from the eu and unelected…Bell ends wawaw