Carryfast:
Exactly what are these supposed ‘good bits’ and you still haven’t explained how the EU could possibly ‘throw its toys out of the pram’ in a way which could possibly harm the economy of a net contributor to the scam and net importer of its goods and services.
While it’s no surprise that an obvious supporter of our continuing EU membership would want to remove the electoral rights of those who oppose it.In which case,like Dolph,carry on because you’re making a great case for the EU membership opposition and out side of the argument.
Did I say I would remove the electoral rights of anyone? It was a humourous take on some of the ridiculousness in the last 7 pages if the powers that be read them. Ironically,I said it to avoid you taking umbrage and trying to drag me into the debate and bombarding me with a load of “evidence”.
I dont need to explain it,its my opinion and what I think will happen. I’m not interested in trying to prove my way is right.
And I cant for the life of me figure out where im “making this great case” for the opposition. ITS AN OPINION. Your need to be right aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaall the time has blinded you to the fact that others might differ from what you have decided is right
Carryfast:
Exactly what are these supposed ‘good bits’ and you still haven’t explained how the EU could possibly ‘throw its toys out of the pram’ in a way which could possibly harm the economy of a net contributor to the scam and net importer of its goods and services.
While it’s no surprise that an obvious supporter of our continuing EU membership would want to remove the electoral rights of those who oppose it.In which case,like Dolph,carry on because you’re making a great case for the EU membership opposition and out side of the argument.
Your need to be right aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaall the time has blinded you to the fact that others might differ from what you have decided is right
As I said there is no place for any argument which gives away the sovereignty of the nation.Let alone cheap labour immigration that thinks it has the right to to say that our own young people have to delay if not cancel having a family.Thereby obviously providing that immigrant agenda with the excuse that we aren’t replenishing our own population with our own so we have to import theirs instead.
Carryfast:
Exactly what are these supposed ‘good bits’ and you still haven’t explained how the EU could possibly ‘throw its toys out of the pram’ in a way which could possibly harm the economy of a net contributor to the scam and net importer of its goods and services.
While it’s no surprise that an obvious supporter of our continuing EU membership would want to remove the electoral rights of those who oppose it.In which case,like Dolph,carry on because you’re making a great case for the EU membership opposition and out side of the argument.
Did I say I would remove the electoral rights of anyone? It was a humourous take on some of the ridiculousness in the last 7 pages if the powers that be read them. Ironically,I said it to avoid you taking umbrage and trying to drag me into the debate and bombarding me with a load of “evidence”. I dont need to explain it,its my opinion and what I think will happen. I’m not interested in trying to prove my way is right. And I cant for the life of me figure out where im “making this great case” for the opposition. ITS AN OPINION. Your need to be right aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaall the time has blinded you to the fact that others might differ from what you have decided is right
+100
P.S. How dare you having different opinion from the one Carryfast have.
Winseer:
I do not fear immigration from Eastern Europe at all. I already work alongside many from the countries concerned after all as agency.
They learn our language, stay out of trouble, don’t bang on about human rights all the time, and generally keep their heads down. Full integration is well under way.
Overall, there are relatively few Eastern Europeans in this country that are not working or here to work.
This is the complete opposite to the “illegal” type of immigrants from OUTSIDE Europe outright, too many fleeing from countries that don’t have a welfare state - rather than where their lives are in genuine peril…
Everyone arriving here with “no papers” (never mind “no family”) is clearly here for the wrong reasons.
Thats what we in the south east of EU fear as well. As we have hundreds of illegals trying to cross the border every single day.
Just last night 54 illegal Afgans were arrested at the border with Turkey, they attacked 3 border guards on duty, which shot on of the illegals in order to stop the attack. 99% of them are young males. How do we know that they are refugees and not Al Qaeda…how do we know that they will integrate in EU, I dont believe they will ever do.
P.S. Correction: all of the arrested illegals are male, between 20 and 30 years of age in very good body(physical strength) according to police.
Dolph where do get your figures and information from you and nobody else have any truth what will happen if the UK decided to quit the EU
All you do is spew EU propaganda about a load of what ifs
Nobody knows period
This picture is taken from different spectrums of British politics one is a far right one who I personally don’t agree with 90% of what comes out of his mouth
The other is left wing one when again I don’t agree on everything he says but I do admire him cos he’s never swayed from his beliefs
But they both have something I have in common with I want out
I don’t hate Europe I don’t want to be ruled by it
I didn’t vote for the Tory [zb] I never have and never will
You seemed to have skipped a few posts Dolph where was your opinions on our forgotten youth that’s been brushed aside by cheap EU economic migrants? Or are you like the rest of the Europhiles than can only see through blinkers■■?
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I didn’t skipped any posts. There is nothing to be said of the outsourcing your employer is doing. It ■■■■■, it bad, but its the free market that dictated the business attitude. You blame Poland for this situation??
You Brits have never experiences the economy collapse we did in 89, tens of thousand out of work in few hours, devaluation of currency etc. One company is outsourcing, another one is coming, UK economy performs great, I don’t see reason to be worried.
Its your Government job to protect you and your youth, not mine, not Polish, not Hungarian etc. Its competitive market, we are not living in GB imperial times, you study and compete its not like you are more then everyone else. I don’t know anything about British youth work ethic and habits, hopefully is not like their parting attitude at Black sea coast.
Again, you need to drop the imperial mentality, you live in a union with over 510 million people in 21 century.
[/quote]
We had 18 years of Thatcherism where she sold off nearly all our Nations assets at a cheap rate put millions on the dole destroyed our manufacturing industries and complete communities
Let foreign companies takeover our utility companies so they can hold us to ransom as the big 6 are running a cartel on price fixing energy bills
It’s ironic this some of the owners of our energy companies are French and German state owned power companies but because of EU competition rules EU governments aren’t allowed to assist private companies■■?
So much for your free trade market it seems other EU countries can pick and choose what they like but the UK can’t
if it wasn’t for the tourism trade and your country selling fake brand designer goods and massive EU subsidies you’d still be driving round in horse and carts or ancient Russian Urals Gaz or Kammaz lorries it seems those that who contribute very little to the ■■■■/EU project are the biggest winners in and they’re all worried about the golden goose leaving
And my friend I’m no imperialist or a capitalist just a socialist
gazsa401:
We had 18 years of Thatcherism where she sold off nearly all our Nations assets at a cheap rate put millions on the dole destroyed our manufacturing industries and complete communities
Let foreign companies takeover our utility companies so they can hold us to ransom as the big 6 are running a cartel on price fixing energy bills
It’s ironic this some of the owners of our energy companies are French and German state owned power companies but because of EU competition rules EU governments aren’t allowed to assist private companies■■?
So much for your free trade market it seems other EU countries can pick and choose what they like but the UK can’t
if it wasn’t for the tourism trade and your country selling fake brand designer goods and massive EU subsidies you’d still be driving round in horse and carts or ancient Russian Urals Gaz or Kammaz lorries it seems those that who contribute very little to the ■■■■/EU project are the biggest winners in and they’re all worried about the golden goose leaving
And my friend I’m no imperialist or a capitalist just a socialist
Its not my fault you had 18 years of Thathcherism that sold you out, because you voted them in office, like you voted Cameron, no not personally you, but the British voter. The same happen in US, millions of jobs outsourced to China.
Well foreign companies took over all Bulgarian companies, some are good some are not. Pharmaceutical giants from UK took big part of the business with medications.
If you are trying to hurt me, its not gonna work, we were and always will be tourist and farming country and have no problem with that. Kamaz are pretty good trucks actually.
You think we EE are worried that you will leave EU, OK
I’m not personally having a go at you
But you seem to think that because a lot of the people in the UK want to leave the EU you accuse us of being warmongers far from it
The British have a long history of helping our European neighbours out in time of need and fighting tyranny
Plus it’s a UK argument I wouldn’t and don’t care less if any other country has a referendum on their membership of the EU that’s up to each sovereign country to decide not me
All I want is who ever governs the UK to be allowed to govern it by the people who’ve elected them not by a unelected or unaccountable EU
Also in one of your posts you mention immigrants illegally entering your country well welcome to the EU with its open border policy and once Turkey is allowed to join the EU it’ll get worse you also mention integration of immigrants well it’s not worked very well in the UK as we’ve no go areas where different cultures try to enforce different laws to the UK and think its acceptable going round in gangs ■■■■■■ young girls many schools where there are up to 20 different languages being spoken some cultures turning areas into a mini country from where they came from and don’t want to integrate
I live in a city where in the 70s 80s 90s and right up to a few years ago there was a area with a big West Indian and Asian population where for a majority of the time everyone got on well but in the last few years many have left the area and have been replaced by EU economic migrants who have not integrated with in the UK society and made areas known as “little Poland” “little Romania” "little “Slovakia” so on I can walk down the City centre and hardly any English be spoken
You can’t have your cake and eat it
Dolph:
Again, you need to drop the imperial mentality, you live in a union with over 510 million people in 21 century.
We had 18 years of Thatcherism where she sold off nearly all our Nations assets at a cheap rate put millions on the dole destroyed our manufacturing industries and complete communities
And my friend I’m no imperialist or a capitalist just a socialist
If you’re a socialist then by definition you don’t/can’t possibly agree with the idea of the nation state and national borders and you support the idea of wealth redistribution.Which plays into the hands of the EU Federalists and cheap labour agenda.
Having been there in the day,like me,Shore,Heffer and arguably Benn were actually torn between a nationalist view and a Socialist one.It’s just that maybe,like me,they didn’t know it at the time.With Shore at least having arguably changed in outlook to a mostly nationalist view not a Socialist one while I ditched my Socialist principles completely.On that note it is possible to combine doing what is good for the working class in the form of unity with Fordist Capitalism and Nationalism in fact they are all mutually inclusive.That was the difference between Shore and Benn although it’s my guess that Benn and Heffer would probably have seen the light in that regard if the out campaign had won out in 1975.
gazsa401:
I’m not personally having a go at you
But you seem to think that because a lot of the people in the UK want to leave the EU you accuse us of being warmongers far from it
The British have a long history of helping our European neighbours out in time of need and fighting tyranny
I don’t think we need any lessons from Bulgaria or Romania at least in that regard being that they were both on the axis side in WW2 not ours.
gazsa401:
I’m not personally having a go at you
But you seem to think that because a lot of the people in the UK want to leave the EU you accuse us of being warmongers far from it
The British have a long history of helping our European neighbours out in time of need and fighting tyranny
I don’t think we need any lessons from Bulgaria or Romania at least in that regard being that they were both on the axis side in WW2 not ours.
Actually you can, because we didn’t declare war to anybody of years after the start of the war. Almost 2 years after the start of WW2 in 1941 we had to make a choice, until then we didn’t participated in the war.
As for UK, you declared war on Germany the very next day.
Can we look at the future now, or you will keep dragging the conversation back to 1914 or WW2…
Dolph:
Again, you need to drop the imperial mentality, you live in a union with over 510 million people in 21 century.
We had 18 years of Thatcherism where she sold off nearly all our Nations assets at a cheap rate put millions on the dole destroyed our manufacturing industries and complete communities
And my friend I’m no imperialist or a capitalist just a socialist
If you’re a socialist then by definition you don’t/can’t possibly agree with the idea of the nation state and national borders and you support the idea of wealth redistribution.Which plays into the hands of the EU Federalists and cheap labour agenda.
Having been there in the day,like me,Shore,Heffer and arguably Benn were actually torn between a nationalist view and a Socialist one.It’s just that maybe,like me,they didn’t know it at the time.With Shore at least having arguably changed in outlook to a mostly nationalist view not a Socialist one while I ditched my Socialist principles completely.On that note it is possible to combine doing what is good for the working class in the form of unity with Fordist Capitalism and Nationalism in fact they are all mutually inclusive.That was the difference between Shore and Benn although it’s my guess that Benn and Heffer would probably have seen the light in that regard if the out campaign had won out in 1975.
CF if i support EU federalism and cheap labour then I wouldn’t be calling for the UK to withdraw from this corrupt club
I support a country’s right to govern its own affairs its own economy its own borders/immigration policy its own laws I don’t support a EU that tries to impose rules and laws against a sovereign state in which the majority of the people don’t want
I don’t want to be part of a political union which the EU is becoming
As I’ve said before I like trading with Europe but not be governed by them
Plus I’m a socialist when it comes to the transport infrastructure the NHS the energy markets utility companies the state should control that not private companies
gazsa401:
I’m not personally having a go at you
But you seem to think that because a lot of the people in the UK want to leave the EU you accuse us of being warmongers far from it
The British have a long history of helping our European neighbours out in time of need and fighting tyranny
I don’t think we need any lessons from Bulgaria or Romania at least in that regard being that they were both on the axis side in WW2 not ours.
Actually you can, because we didn’t declare war to anybody of years after the start of the war. Almost 2 years after the start of WW2 in 1941 we had to make a choice, until then we didn’t participated in the war.
As for UK, you declared war on Germany the very next day.
Can we look at the future now, or you will keep dragging the conversation back to 1914 or WW2…
Dolph, the reason that the UK declared war on Germany at the start was because the UK had a pact with Poland that should it be invaded then the UK would declare war on the aggressor which reiterates the point made earlier about the UK having a record of helping other European countries, without that pact the UK could have stayed out of WW2 for a while longer and maybe have been better prepared when it inevitably would have attacked by Germany, Whether you like it or not a country’s history shapes how that country is today and as they say history cannot be changed. Which goes without saying too that Europe’s history of the last 100 years or so has lead us to where we now a union that until recently was dominated by the French and Germans and now solely by the Germans, in all the recent European crisis’s Europe has had to dance to the German tune, hardly the basis of a democratic organisation with the most powerful country bullying the other weaker members and it is this lack of democracy that turns people away from the EU.
Carryfast:
If you’re a socialist then by definition you don’t/can’t possibly agree with the idea of the nation state and national borders and you support the idea of wealth redistribution.Which plays into the hands of the EU Federalists and cheap labour agenda.
Having been there in the day,like me,Shore,Heffer and arguably Benn were actually torn between a nationalist view and a Socialist one.It’s just that maybe,like me,they didn’t know it at the time.With Shore at least having arguably changed in outlook to a mostly nationalist view not a Socialist one while I ditched my Socialist principles completely.On that note it is possible to combine doing what is good for the working class in the form of unity with Fordist Capitalism and Nationalism in fact they are all mutually inclusive.That was the difference between Shore and Benn although it’s my guess that Benn and Heffer would probably have seen the light in that regard if the out campaign had won out in 1975.
CF if i support EU federalism and cheap labour then I wouldn’t be calling for the UK to withdraw from this corrupt club
I support a country’s right to govern its own affairs its own economy its own borders/immigration policy its own laws I don’t support a EU that tries to impose rules and laws against a sovereign state in which the majority of the people don’t want
I don’t want to be part of a political union which the EU is becoming
As I’ve said before I like trading with Europe but not be governed by them
Plus I’m a socialist when it comes to the transport infrastructure the NHS the energy markets utility companies the state should control that not private companies
Trust me then like Benn,Shore,Heffer and myself you’ve also seen the light in changing from a Socialist Labour to a Nationalist labour stance.Because there’s no way that you can possibly reconcile that with being a Socialist.It’s just that like us in the day you don’t realise it yet.That change will be key to Labour getting back into power and smashing the whole exploitative cheap labour con that is both Socialism and Toryism.
gazsa401:
I’m not personally having a go at you
But you seem to think that because a lot of the people in the UK want to leave the EU you accuse us of being warmongers far from it
The British have a long history of helping our European neighbours out in time of need and fighting tyranny
I don’t think we need any lessons from Bulgaria or Romania at least in that regard being that they were both on the axis side in WW2 not ours.
Actually you can, because we didn’t declare war to anybody of years after the start of the war. Almost 2 years after the start of WW2 in 1941 we had to make a choice, until then we didn’t participated in the war.
As for UK, you declared war on Germany the very next day.
Can we look at the future now, or you will keep dragging the conversation back to 1914 or WW2…
Dolph, the reason that the UK declared war on Germany at the start was because the UK had a pact with Poland that should it be invaded then the UK would declare war on the aggressor which reiterates the point made earlier about the UK having a record of helping other European countries, without that pact the UK could have stayed out of WW2 for a while longer and maybe have been better prepared when it inevitably would have attacked by Germany, Whether you like it or not a country’s history shapes how that country is today and as they say history cannot be changed. Which goes without saying too that Europe’s history of the last 100 years or so has lead us to where we now a union that until recently was dominated by the French and Germans and now solely by the Germans, in all the recent European crisis’s Europe has had to dance to the German tune, hardly the basis of a democratic organisation with the most powerful country bullying the other weaker members and it is this lack of democracy that turns people away from the EU.
Interestingly if UK had pact with Poland, why UK didn’t declare war on USSR, whom had pact with Germany to split Poland by invading from the east, which they did do on September 17st 1939…
Dolph:
Interestingly if UK had pact with Poland, why UK didn’t declare war on USSR, whom had pact with Germany to split Poland by invading from the east, which they did do on September 17st 1939…
Never mind, I made the comment to tease Carryfast
It is obvious that the ‘pact’ with Poland was just a diversion and a pre text and more proof that Chamberlain was no appeaser he was playing for time.I was raised by the WW2 generation and everyone of them I knew,knew that they were going to war with Germany long before Hitler invaded Poland and even if he hadn’t invaded Poland.Unfortunately Chamberlain became a victim of his own diversion and Churchill got ( stole ) all the credit.
As for what Russia did and the erratic unpredictable nature of slavic alliances and animosities that’s just more proof that we in the west shouldn’t trust any of them and keep them at arms length.
As for your question.That could be reversed by the question if Russia was a German ally why didn’t Russia help Germany in the invasion of Belgium and France and probably then by implication us ?.It seems obvious that Hitler and Stalin didn’t trust each other and Hitler was always going to go for Russia as payback for WW1 and Stalin probably knew it.
Dolph:
Interestingly if UK had pact with Poland, why UK didn’t declare war on USSR, whom had pact with Germany to split Poland by invading from the east, which they did do on September 17st 1939…
Never mind, I made the comment to tease Carryfast
It is obvious that the ‘pact’ with Poland was just a diversion and a pre text and more proof that Chamberlain was no appeaser he was playing for time.I was raised by the WW2 generation and everyone of them I knew,knew that they were going to war with Germany long before Hitler invaded Poland and even if he hadn’t invaded Poland.Unfortunately Chamberlain became a victim of his own diversion and Churchill got ( stole ) all the credit.
As for what Russia did and the erratic unpredictable nature of slavic alliances and animosities that’s just more proof that we in the west shouldn’t trust any of them and keep them at arms length.
As for your question.That could be reversed by the question if Russia was a German ally why didn’t Russia help Germany in the invasion of Belgium and France and probably then by implication us ?.It seems obvious that Hitler and Stalin didn’t trust each other and Hitler was always going to go for Russia as payback for WW1 and Stalin probably knew it.
Dolph: As for what Russia did and the erratic unpredictable nature of slavic alliances and animosities that’s just more proof that we in the west shouldn’t trust any of them and keep them at arms length.
Another priceless comment of yours. Who are them?
As I said erratic slavic animosities and alliances of the type in which even Poland fought on both sides at the same time in WW1.Let alone going to war against Germany for slavic unity then fighting amongst themselves when they’d got it in order to re join a German run EU.
