@Big Joe
bis.gov.uk/policies/trade-po … agreements
Joe take a look at this it may help dispel the government “Corporate Media” propaganda surrounding the issue, and if you come across any meaningful reference to “Supply & Demand” point me to it please.
Big Joe:
Carryfast:
The reason why there’s more supply than demand in the labour market is because that market has been rigged by shipping out the work to cheap labour countries so less work here to do and shipping immigrant labour in so there’s more workers to do the less work that’s left here.So how can you ‘‘rig’’ the market to shift production to another country that pay low wages, again its supply and demand
We’re the authors of our own destiny, we want cheap gadgets but don’t want the menial boring production line jobs, so they get exported.
As for cheap imported labour, why is it here. Well as an example ten years ago we were big importers of veg, but now theres more vegetables grown in the UK now than there ever has been. This is only because theres been the influx of foreign labour prepared to muck in and harvest it. It used to be college student work, but its work that is now considered below status for your average ‘‘university’’ graduate. Supply and demand, go figure.
Firstly those ‘menial production line jobs’ were actually high paying work that many people out there were ok with in addition to which there’s been plenty of other manufacturing jobs in engineering lost that aren’t so boring.It’s easy to make the mistake if you’re cut out to be a driver that everyone is the same.To me 8 hours a day in a factory seemed like an eternity but others could handle it no problem.
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=83207&start=210#p1143533
The fact is those so called ‘cheap’ gadgets aren’t so cheap when you factor in all the hidden costs of uemployment,loss of spending power and lost tax revenues in the domestic economy.
So we make the country a closed shop, no competition from anywhere, guaranteed well paid jobs for every one (well those at the top 
) and we all drive round in black Ford Ka’s. 
seem to think that one has been tried, well not the Ford Ka bit, they used Trabants 
MikeCunn:
If you read any of the ‘Fuel Tanker Strike’ threads, you’ll see why. Most drivers don’t give a [zb] about other drivers and the, “I’m alright Jack” culture is all prevalent.
A surprising amount of drivers are happy with a lower rate if they get a nice truck. Until drivers stick together and use the power we could have, it’s only going to get worse.
Could not agree more.
Big Joe:
So we make the country a closed shop, no competition from anywhere, guaranteed well paid jobs for every one (well those at the top
You obviously didn’t check out all the videos in that last post.The east germans drove Trabants the Americans drove Mustangs,GTO’s etc etc and over here young factory workers like me were buying Jags or putting American V8’s into their Dagenham built Zodiac Mk 2’s etc.
Stanley Knife:
EastAnglianTrucker:
Our national treasure, the money made by generations of working people, has been squandered by politicians for the last 40 years.They’ve bled their own taxpayers dry so they can waste it on vanity projects like aircraft carriers with no aircraft, and nuclear submarines targeting suicide bombers. They’ve used it to privatise our nation’s infrastructure so their masters can make massive, unjustified profits for themselves and their foreign shareholders.
Most obscene of all, they’ve blown it on disastrous wars, that have killed the cream of our youth. They’ve ■■■■■■ it down the drain of uncontrolled welfare and immigrant importation, and they’ve lined they’re own pockets and those of, and here we are back at the start of the thread, the accountants, the lawyers, and especially the bankers!
Excellent post EAT. Unfortunately you’re a lot closer to the truth than a lot of folk would understand. Our politicians have mastered the art of the PR man and can sow an image of good their ideas will bring whilst, at the same time, making those who should benefit from those ideas feel impotent in their complaints that those ideas will/have fail(ed).
(If only someone would do something)!
Stan
Speak for yourself. If you’re naive enough to believe it you deserve everything you get.
Big Joe:
So we make the country a closed shop, no competition from anywhere, guaranteed well paid jobs for every one (well those at the top
Ah, I see you’ve swallowed the media’s scare tactics…
The answer isn’t to make the country a closed shop. Far from it in fact. And to think or suggest that it should be, is merely shoving our heads further into the sand.
This country simply isn’t competitive in any meaningful sense, in comparison with other economies. It needs to be or it will simply sink to third world status within a generation.
To even start to address that problem means better education for all - and by education I don’t mean media and social studies, but in the specialities that the world wants. Probably heavy and precision engineering, bio-sciences, specialist manufacturing and, say it quietly, management skills. Sensible and pragmatic language skills should be compulsory in schools as well. And those are not German or French!
We need to rebuild our manufacturing. But not just any manufacturing, specialist, high value manufacturing. Specialist ship building and aircraft manufacture for example.
It means changing the attitudes of millions of workers who simply don’t believe that work can be productive for them. It means giving the youth of yesterday, today AND tomorrow a reason to believe they will fully share in the benefits of their labours. They need to have a tangible stake in society, not just the cheap platitudes spouted on a regular basis by politicians.
Unions, as they’re currently structured, aren’t the answer either. There’s simply no way that enough drivers will a.) join a union, and b.) be able to afford to come out on strike for long enough to make a difference. And the threat of strikes is useless unless you have the ability and power to carry one out.
What IS needed is a general strike. Everyone earning a low paid hourly wage needs to take the day off. And take another day off two or three weeks later if the so called ruling classes, don’t get the message - and believe me they’ll have tanks on the streets as soon as you can say “tanker driver!” But you can’t MAKE someone work who doesn’t want to. But think of the effect if the majority of manual workers simply didn’t go to work for a day.
Big Joe:
We’re the authors of our own destiny, we want cheap gadgets but don’t want the menial boring production line jobs, so they get exported.
This suggests the Germans don’t like cheap gadgets, but believe me they do. The difference is, they have a manufacturing industry that the rest of the world still wants, whilst all we have are some protected bankers who simply want to milk the system for their own ends. Oh yes, and some car manufacturing owned by the Germans, the Indians and the Japanese… that’s why we need some sensible management skills!
The Germans had record growth last year, and that was because of strong exports to the BRIC countries. (Now I don’t want to say the Germans don’t have some major advantages, but the underlying direction is still up, and whatever happens to the Euro, the German economy will continue to grow. It’s the likes of France, Spain Italy and the UK, that will crash and burn because they haven’t invested in the skills the world wants!)
So yes, we are the authors of our own destiny - or downfall depending on your perspective.
Of the millions of youths out of work, I guarantee there are several thousand that could learn to do the jobs of highly paid bankers, and be happy to take 20% of what a typical banker is paid. So when I hear one of those parasites say they’ll leave the country if the nasty government doesn’t stop bashing them, I say, well [zb] off then.
We don’t need such ethically and morally bankrupt people in our society, stealing from the country whilst people with cancer can’t get drugs from the NHS which will keep them alive for another few months, or terribly injured soldiers are pushed to the back of the line when it comes to getting the support they need to rebuild their lives.
Do I think there’s a chance that the UK can turn it round. In a word, no. And no matter how many drivers go on strike, for however long, or however often, the problem is NOT how drivers are treated, nor how little they are paid. It’s how everyone is treated who isn’t on some sort of government, civil or commercial gravytrain.
It’s the lack of respect that big business has for the people that make it big, the people that buy its products. It’s the sneering arrogance of the politicians that have mostly never actually had to do a decent day’s work, but are happy to take whatever allowances they can get to increase their pension pots and family wealth. (ALL politicians, not just Conservative of Labour, they are all complicit!)
It’s the civil service that are only really interested in the short term advantage of a job where they get paid bonuses for effectively doing nothing - when was the last time you heard that nurses got paid what they are worth? And got a yearly bonus equivalent to 50% of their salary?
Get real drivers. At least most of you have a job. The problem is much, much deeper than your hourly rate, and until we all (collectively) say “enough” your hourly rate won’t even register on the radar.
Sorry!
Achtung!
Please refer to my earlier post. 
EDIT: Which was on another thread… 
Goes away and shuts up
Happydaze:
Stanley Knife:
Excellent post EAT. Unfortunately you’re a lot closer to the truth than a lot of folk would understand. Our politicians have mastered the art of the PR man and can sow an image of good their ideas will bring whilst, at the same time, making those who should benefit from those ideas feel impotent in their complaints that those ideas will/have fail(ed).(If only someone would do something)!
Speak for yourself. If you’re naive enough to believe it you deserve everything you get.
Your inability to understand what you read is matched only by your reasoning.
Stan
Stanley Knife:
Happydaze:
Stanley Knife:
Excellent post EAT. Unfortunately you’re a lot closer to the truth than a lot of folk would understand. Our politicians have mastered the art of the PR man and can sow an image of good their ideas will bring whilst, at the same time, making those who should benefit from those ideas feel impotent in their complaints that those ideas will/have fail(ed).(If only someone would do something)!
Speak for yourself. If you’re naive enough to believe it you deserve everything you get.
Your inability to understand what you read is matched only by your reasoning.
Stan
You should write for Private Eye, no really I think you should.
EastAnglianTrucker:
Big Joe:
So we make the country a closed shop, no competition from anywhere, guaranteed well paid jobs for every one (well those at the topAh, I see you’ve swallowed the media’s scare tactics…
The answer isn’t to make the country a closed shop. Far from it in fact. And to think or suggest that it should be, is merely shoving our heads further into the sand.
This country simply isn’t competitive in any meaningful sense, in comparison with other economies. It needs to be or it will simply sink to third world status within a generation.
To even start to address that problem means better education for all - and by education I don’t mean media and social studies, but in the specialities that the world wants. Probably heavy and precision engineering, bio-sciences, specialist manufacturing and, say it quietly, management skills. Sensible and pragmatic language skills should be compulsory in schools as well. And those are not German or French!
We need to rebuild our manufacturing. But not just any manufacturing, specialist, high value manufacturing. Specialist ship building and aircraft manufacture for example.
It means changing the attitudes of millions of workers who simply don’t believe that work can be productive for them. It means giving the youth of yesterday, today AND tomorrow a reason to believe they will fully share in the benefits of their labours. They need to have a tangible stake in society, not just the cheap platitudes spouted on a regular basis by politicians.
Unions, as they’re currently structured, aren’t the answer either. There’s simply no way that enough drivers will a.) join a union, and b.) be able to afford to come out on strike for long enough to make a difference. And the threat of strikes is useless unless you have the ability and power to carry one out.
What IS needed is a general strike. Everyone earning a low paid hourly wage needs to take the day off. And take another day off two or three weeks later if the so called ruling classes, don’t get the message - and believe me they’ll have tanks on the streets as soon as you can say “tanker driver!” But you can’t MAKE someone work who doesn’t want to. But think of the effect if the majority of manual workers simply didn’t go to work for a day.
Big Joe:
We’re the authors of our own destiny, we want cheap gadgets but don’t want the menial boring production line jobs, so they get exported.This suggests the Germans don’t like cheap gadgets, but believe me they do. The difference is, they have a manufacturing industry that the rest of the world still wants, whilst all we have are some protected bankers who simply want to milk the system for their own ends. Oh yes, and some car manufacturing owned by the Germans, the Indians and the Japanese… that’s why we need some sensible management skills!
The Germans had record growth last year, and that was because of strong exports to the BRIC countries. (Now I don’t want to say the Germans don’t have some major advantages, but the underlying direction is still up, and whatever happens to the Euro, the German economy will continue to grow. It’s the likes of France, Spain Italy and the UK, that will crash and burn because they haven’t invested in the skills the world wants!)
So yes, we are the authors of our own destiny - or downfall depending on your perspective.
Of the millions of youths out of work, I guarantee there are several thousand that could learn to do the jobs of highly paid bankers, and be happy to take 20% of what a typical banker is paid. So when I hear one of those parasites say they’ll leave the country if the nasty government doesn’t stop bashing them, I say, well [zb] off then.
We don’t need such ethically and morally bankrupt people in our society, stealing from the country whilst people with cancer can’t get drugs from the NHS which will keep them alive for another few months, or terribly injured soldiers are pushed to the back of the line when it comes to getting the support they need to rebuild their lives.
Do I think there’s a chance that the UK can turn it round. In a word, no. And no matter how many drivers go on strike, for however long, or however often, the problem is NOT how drivers are treated, nor how little they are paid. It’s how everyone is treated who isn’t on some sort of government, civil or commercial gravytrain.
It’s the lack of respect that big business has for the people that make it big, the people that buy its products. It’s the sneering arrogance of the politicians that have mostly never actually had to do a decent day’s work, but are happy to take whatever allowances they can get to increase their pension pots and family wealth. (ALL politicians, not just Conservative of Labour, they are all complicit!)
It’s the civil service that are only really interested in the short term advantage of a job where they get paid bonuses for effectively doing nothing - when was the last time you heard that nurses got paid what they are worth? And got a yearly bonus equivalent to 50% of their salary?
Get real drivers. At least most of you have a job. The problem is much, much deeper than your hourly rate, and until we all (collectively) say “enough” your hourly rate won’t even register on the radar.
Sorry!
That’s not exactly thing same thing as what actually needs to be done in just putting the US and British economies back to where they were in the 1960’s based on having a strong domestic economy first and foremost.There’s no way that the road transport industry can provide sufficient jobs,to create the demand for labour required in the industry, without industry in general being put back as it was first.But trying to compete with the Asian economies,in the global free market economy,won’t work in the long term even for the German economy which,like ours,was built and should remain,based on the Fordist system not the global free market one.
Protectionism is a good thing not a bad one.
This should be re-named “how, why and when did a “professional drivers” forum become a host for patronising, patriachal, amateur sociologists who think that intellectual superiority depends on their perception of another’s ability to understand pseudo-intellectual waffle on subjects that the poster has a worryingly slender grasp of”.
Happydaze:
This should be re-named “how, why and when did a “professional drivers” forum become a host for patronising, patriachal, amateur sociologists who think that intellectual superiority depends on their perception of another’s ability to understand pseudo-intellectual waffle on subjects that the poster has a worryingly slender grasp of”.
EH.
Going back to the OP…
I’m afraid I only get time and a third after eight hours and the same for Saturdays, Double time for Sundays.
I’m sorry if I have ‘ratted’ on all my fellow drivers in our Industry by accepting such poor terms but that was what was on offer and a hundred times better than being self employed (like I was).
Personally, I don’t ■■■■■■■ care who earns what because it’s none of my ■■■■ business.
W
AlexWignall:
Going back to the OP…I’m afraid I only get time and a third after eight hours and the same for Saturdays, Double time for Sundays.
I’m sorry if I have ‘ratted’ on all my fellow drivers in our Industry by accepting such poor terms but that was what was on offer and a hundred times better than being self employed (like I was).
Personally, I don’t [zb] care who earns what because it’s none of my ■■■■ business.
W
Where did that come from. 
AlexWignall:
Going back to the OP…I’m afraid I only get time and a third after eight hours and the same for Saturdays, Double time for Sundays.
I’m sorry if I have ‘ratted’ on all my fellow drivers in our Industry by accepting such poor terms but that was what was on offer and a hundred times better than being self employed (like I was).
Personally, I don’t [zb] care who earns what because it’s none of my ■■■■ business.
W
Absolutely. The perennial problem with the idealists, fantasists and theorists is that they aren’t going to pay your wages whilst we wait for this Nirvana to arrive.
Equally, it’s nobody else’s business what you earn or what your terms & conditions are. Good on you. 
Happydaze:
This should be re-named “how, why and when did a “professional drivers” forum become a host for patronising, patriachal, amateur sociologists who think that intellectual superiority depends on their perception of another’s ability to understand pseudo-intellectual waffle on subjects that the poster has a worryingly slender grasp of”.
+1
I want a ‘Like’ button
aranger:
AlexWignall:
Going back to the OP…I’m afraid I only get time and a third after eight hours and the same for Saturdays, Double time for Sundays.
I’m sorry if I have ‘ratted’ on all my fellow drivers in our Industry by accepting such poor terms but that was what was on offer and a hundred times better than being self employed (like I was).
Personally, I don’t [zb] care who earns what because it’s none of my ■■■■ business.
W
Where did that come from.
Just a bit bored with all the pointless threads about other peoples wages.
Didn’t you get told “You shouldn’t do this or I wouldn’t work for that” By some old sweat when you started out…?
Just to watch him do exactly the same a month later… I love the good old days.
W
EastAnglianTrucker:
Big Joe:
So we make the country a closed shop, no competition from anywhere, guaranteed well paid jobs for every one (well those at the topAh, I see you’ve swallowed the media’s scare tactics…
The answer isn’t to make the country a closed shop. Far from it in fact. And to think or suggest that it should be, is merely shoving our heads further into the sand.
This country simply isn’t competitive in any meaningful sense, in comparison with other economies. It needs to be or it will simply sink to third world status within a generation.
To even start to address that problem means better education for all - and by education I don’t mean media and social studies, but in the specialities that the world wants. Probably heavy and precision engineering, bio-sciences, specialist manufacturing and, say it quietly, management skills. Sensible and pragmatic language skills should be compulsory in schools as well. And those are not German or French!
We need to rebuild our manufacturing. But not just any manufacturing, specialist, high value manufacturing. Specialist ship building and aircraft manufacture for example.
It means changing the attitudes of millions of workers who simply don’t believe that work can be productive for them. It means giving the youth of yesterday, today AND tomorrow a reason to believe they will fully share in the benefits of their labours. They need to have a tangible stake in society, not just the cheap platitudes spouted on a regular basis by politicians.
Unions, as they’re currently structured, aren’t the answer either. There’s simply no way that enough drivers will a.) join a union, and b.) be able to afford to come out on strike for long enough to make a difference. And the threat of strikes is useless unless you have the ability and power to carry one out.
What IS needed is a general strike. Everyone earning a low paid hourly wage needs to take the day off. And take another day off two or three weeks later if the so called ruling classes, don’t get the message - and believe me they’ll have tanks on the streets as soon as you can say “tanker driver!” But you can’t MAKE someone work who doesn’t want to. But think of the effect if the majority of manual workers simply didn’t go to work for a day.
Big Joe:
We’re the authors of our own destiny, we want cheap gadgets but don’t want the menial boring production line jobs, so they get exported.This suggests the Germans don’t like cheap gadgets, but believe me they do. The difference is, they have a manufacturing industry that the rest of the world still wants, whilst all we have are some protected bankers who simply want to milk the system for their own ends. Oh yes, and some car manufacturing owned by the Germans, the Indians and the Japanese… that’s why we need some sensible management skills!
The Germans had record growth last year, and that was because of strong exports to the BRIC countries. (Now I don’t want to say the Germans don’t have some major advantages, but the underlying direction is still up, and whatever happens to the Euro, the German economy will continue to grow. It’s the likes of France, Spain Italy and the UK, that will crash and burn because they haven’t invested in the skills the world wants!)
So yes, we are the authors of our own destiny - or downfall depending on your perspective.
Of the millions of youths out of work, I guarantee there are several thousand that could learn to do the jobs of highly paid bankers, and be happy to take 20% of what a typical banker is paid. So when I hear one of those parasites say they’ll leave the country if the nasty government doesn’t stop bashing them, I say, well [zb] off then.
We don’t need such ethically and morally bankrupt people in our society, stealing from the country whilst people with cancer can’t get drugs from the NHS which will keep them alive for another few months, or terribly injured soldiers are pushed to the back of the line when it comes to getting the support they need to rebuild their lives.
Do I think there’s a chance that the UK can turn it round. In a word, no. And no matter how many drivers go on strike, for however long, or however often, the problem is NOT how drivers are treated, nor how little they are paid. It’s how everyone is treated who isn’t on some sort of government, civil or commercial gravytrain.
It’s the lack of respect that big business has for the people that make it big, the people that buy its products. It’s the sneering arrogance of the politicians that have mostly never actually had to do a decent day’s work, but are happy to take whatever allowances they can get to increase their pension pots and family wealth. (ALL politicians, not just Conservative of Labour, they are all complicit!)
It’s the civil service that are only really interested in the short term advantage of a job where they get paid bonuses for effectively doing nothing - when was the last time you heard that nurses got paid what they are worth? And got a yearly bonus equivalent to 50% of their salary?
Get real drivers. At least most of you have a job. The problem is much, much deeper than your hourly rate, and until we all (collectively) say “enough” your hourly rate won’t even register on the radar.
Sorry!
Hmmm 
I think somewhere in there you’ve actually agreed with my opinion
AlexWignall:
aranger:
AlexWignall:
Going back to the OP…I’m afraid I only get time and a third after eight hours and the same for Saturdays, Double time for Sundays.
I’m sorry if I have ‘ratted’ on all my fellow drivers in our Industry by accepting such poor terms but that was what was on offer and a hundred times better than being self employed (like I was).
Personally, I don’t [zb] care who earns what because it’s none of my ■■■■ business.
W
Where did that come from.
Just a bit bored with all the pointless threads about other peoples wages.
Didn’t you get told “You shouldn’t do this or I wouldn’t work for that” By some old sweat when you started out…?
Just to watch him do exactly the same a month later… I love the good old days.
W
I sure did, some of them still try it now! Must be my boyish good looks…