How,why and when did it happen

[santa]

Supply and demmand. That’s all. As long as there are more people wanting the job than there are vacancies the pay will be low. If you are recruiting drivers then you will only offer the least amount that you can get away with - why would you pay more?

I was a TM on own account back in the day when the T&G ruled in Birmingham. The first thing I did when I started was to stop the Saturday mornings - four hours at time and a half to wash their trucks - dream on. On the other hand I defended the drivers against the general impression at board level that they were really just labourers.

The drivers there were on trip and finish for the week. So they would roll in on Friday morning and hang around fo no good reason. This upset the factory workers because they only saw them when they were standing around drinking tea. I stopped most of the overtime too - the rule was that they couldn’t claim OT on a day when they had a night out. My reasoning was that there was no reason for them to work it, apart from the odd half hour to get to the digs (no sleeper cabs then).

This was 30 years ago and, just as now, drivers were mostly interested in the “take home”. Since most drivers work long hours the hourly rate could be low while the “take home” was (and is) high. Applying for a job as a manager I would look at the whole package - wages, pension, sick pay, holidays, bonus, severance et al. You see it on here all the time “I take home £600 a week” The fact that this is for 80 hours and includes six nights out seems not to matter - only the “take home”, and of course a nice truck.

[newmercman]

44 Tonne Ton:

Trev_H:
I get time and a half after 8 hrs each day, time and a half Saturday (double after 5hrs) and double time Sunday. Paid a min 50hr week (holidays too), I only work an average of 37hrs now . I’ve been there 35yrs and have kept those terms from day 1, in recent years new starters have different agreements , when or if it alters for me I’ll be hanging my boots up .

This has got a lot to do with it in my opinion. Drivers already in the job allowed later starters to come in on poorer terms as long as they were alright. The new fella was usually in a minority of one so wasn’t in any position to rock the boat nor get any support from his “workmates”. As the old boys left so did their terms and conditions.

Very true, we stand by and let new colleagues get shafted and then slag them off for carving the job up, you couldn’t make it up…

[carryfast]

newmercman:

44 Tonne Ton:

Trev_H:
I get time and a half after 8 hrs each day, time and a half Saturday (double after 5hrs) and double time Sunday. Paid a min 50hr week (holidays too), I only work an average of 37hrs now . I’ve been there 35yrs and have kept those terms from day 1, in recent years new starters have different agreements , when or if it alters for me I’ll be hanging my boots up .

This has got a lot to do with it in my opinion. Drivers already in the job allowed later starters to come in on poorer terms as long as they were alright. The new fella was usually in a minority of one so wasn’t in any position to rock the boat nor get any support from his “workmates”. As the old boys left so did their terms and conditions.

Very true, we stand by and let new colleagues get shafted and then slag them off for carving the job up, you couldn’t make it up…

It’s a bit more complicated than that though because in most cases the new ones coming in getting shafted are full on lobotomised believers in the Thatcherite moneterist cause which they’ve been indoctrinated with since their school days and which has put us here in the first place.

Whereas it’s many of those ‘old boys’ who were up for a fight and stood together if the guvnors wouldn’t pay up or at least settle for a deal that involved no reductions in terms and conditions.That situation applies throughout the economy as a whole not just in the road transport industry.

All those who shout about the so called ‘bad old days of the 1970’s’, which they’ve been indoctrinated with by the Tory propaganda machine,shouldn’t complain when it’s them who are the first to find out that they’ve been supporting the wrong side.

[carryfast]

Santa:
Supply and demmand. That’s all. As long as there are more people wanting the job than there are vacancies the pay will be low. If you are recruiting drivers then you will only offer the least amount that you can get away with - why would you pay more?

The reason why there’s more supply than demand in the labour market is because that market has been rigged by shipping out the work to cheap labour countries so less work here to do and shipping immigrant labour in so there’s more workers to do the less work that’s left here.

[winseer]

EastAnglianTrucker:

att:
Accountants and lawyers are the parasites, always have been and always will be

+1 Aint this the truth!

It happened when the lawyers & accountants, and yes the most parasitic of them all, the bankers & politicians, realised that they could hold out longer than the working man, (not just drivers) who simply wanted to earn a decent wage for a decent days work.

When those workers who went on strike saw their wives and kids hungry and the banks came along and said, “If you can’t feed your kids and pay you’re mortgage/rent, we’ll put you on the streets… or why not borrow this really easy money to do all those tiresome things like buying food and paying rent?”

So the banks offered expensive credit so the workers could buy food and pay their rent, then slung them on the streets when they couldn’t pay for the credit they needed, (which had been created by their hard work and the hard work of their fathers.)

It’s not just drivers that need to stick together, and let’s face it, there are too many drivers who simply can’t afford to lose the job they DO have, on the off chance ALL drivers would stand together. No, it’s not just drivers that need to stick together, it’s everyone who has to work for a low, barely above minimum wage, hourly rate!

And unfortunately, the lumpen proletariat in this country simply won’t or don’t understand that every budget, every wage settlement and every banker’s bonus is just another inch of the corporate ■■■■■.

Oh, sorry, you didn’t want “…to start “World war three” with your question” nor hear “tales of kids down mines, capitalists versus socialists, political point scoring, etc,…” Well I really am sorry about that old 67, but it was you that asked the question. I make no excuses for the answer.

+1
I absolutely DETEST the usary industry!
Underpay staff, get them hooked on credit just to pay the bills, then shaft them either with everlasting interest payments or just repossess all their stuff. All a conspiricy from those who cannot be named lest I be accused of being a ■■■■!
I wish the whole country could do what I’ve done with regards to credit - walk away from the whole damned thing, and see the banks squirm as they no longer have any mugs paying interest any more. They’re already paying savers as if no one ever borrowed, so it’s about time this gravy train of iniquity was ended once and for all.

Equity, Freedom, Justice - Not Usary, Serfdom, & Slavery.

[juddian]

Some heartening posts here, the govt propaganda machine didn’t work on all it would appear.

Now how to start to reverse the brainwashing the bought and paid for media and the schools and colleges have been indoctrinating those who believe the tripe is the next battle.

[old_67]

Thanks for all the replies lads, it was only after reading posts on here, that the other day I thought " hang on, when did all this happen ".
I try to keep abreast of general goings on in the world, but didnt realise how much our transport history had changed.
A couple of years and I will be retired, I wish all you lads with years to do , every success in improving it.
Regards John

[eastangliantrucker]

old 67:
A couple of years and I will be retired, I wish all you lads with years to do , every success in improving it.
Regards John

Thanks John, but you could call me old 60! I’ve spent a bit less than 40 years driving and watching the way our society has been changed, and I think it’s too late for me to be one of the ones improving the industry… let alone leading a revolution.

And it’s a revolution that’s needed, even if it’s not one of the “blood-in-the-streets” kind, it needs a revolution in thinking. Unfortunately, whilst people are scared by the media telling us we’re in recession, that Al Quaeda will slit our throats in our beds, and if they don’t, we’ll all be working for the Chinese, Indians, Brazilians et al, shortly, the mass, mostly uneducated, general tabloid buying public have been cowed into submission.

Our country has been invaded by vested interests and the current crop of politicians - all of them regardless of political leaning - are in the pockets of big business and the media. There are no feasible alternatives available. The BNP is a joke. UKIP is useless and the established political parties, as I said, are bought and paid for.

Even in Germany, that hotbed of dangerous political shifts, there are groups of young, energetic, educated people organising and challenging the old organs of political governance, and highlighting the need for them to be changed. Where is there even any discussion about that in this country?

Don’t look in the Murdoch press, the Sun is as interested in subduing the natives as the Times. Don’t expect the BBC to say/do anything, there are as many left wing, champagne swilling, gold plated pensionistas there, than in the Civil Service. And Jeremy Vine on Radio 2, is a prime example of how the BBC prefers paying lip service to serious discussion, rather than addressing our greater societal needs.

Our national treasure, the money made by generations of working people, has been squandered by politicians for the last 40 years.

They’ve bled their own taxpayers dry so they can waste it on vanity projects like aircraft carriers with no aircraft, and nuclear submarines targeting suicide bombers. They’ve used it to privatise our nation’s infrastructure so their masters can make massive, unjustified profits for themselves and their foreign shareholders.

Most obscene of all, they’ve blown it on disastrous wars, that have killed the cream of our youth. They’ve ■■■■■■ it down the drain of uncontrolled welfare and immigrant importation, and they’ve lined they’re own pockets and those of, and here we are back at the start of the thread, the accountants, the lawyers, and especially the bankers!

End of the serious bit! Except to say for those not completely aware, that it’s been a rant designed to make everyone understand that it’s the children we should be thinking of, not the old buggers like us!

[alamcculloch]

The family men can work for a ■■■■ poor wage because the family tax credit or whatever its being called this week kicks in and makes the pay liveable.As for the bankers can we introduce the part of Sharia Law that forbids people from making a profit out of lending money?

[happy_keith]

old 67:
‘…The 40 hour week with time and a half after 8 hours per day & Saturday,with double time for Sunday, has all but disappeared … how, when & why did this pay structure disappear…?’

Why not think of it this way:

1. How? When the supply of drivers/employees met the demand of employers.

2. When? It seemed to kick-in around 12-15 years ago - possibly coinciding with former Iron Curtain nations joining the EU and when UK society gleefully embraced Sunday shopping.

3. Why? Maybe because we, the electorate, voted to embrace all aspects associated with these events.

The British were in a giddy rush to dismiss the stability of our former national identity & embrace ‘new funky stuff’ and Cool Britannia, etc.

What we didn’t do was to properly think, debate, consider or assess the likely consequences which now seem to have kicked our butts

[big_joe]

Santa:
Supply and demand. That’s all. As long as there are more people wanting the job than there are vacancies the pay will be low. If you are recruiting drivers then you will only offer the least amount that you can get away with - why would you pay more?

Thats about it in a nutshell, winging and moaning about low wages ain’t going to change anything no matter how much people stick together, if the jobs ain’t there then the employers can set the wages, you don’t like the wages try and find another job, its as simple as

Carryfast:
The reason why there’s more supply than demand in the labour market is because that market has been rigged by shipping out the work to cheap labour countries so less work here to do and shipping immigrant labour in so there’s more workers to do the less work that’s left here.

So how can you ‘‘rig’’ the market to shift production to another country that pay low wages, again its supply and demand
We’re the authors of our own destiny, we want cheap gadgets but don’t want the menial boring production line jobs, so they get exported.
As for cheap imported labour, why is it here. Well as an example ten years ago we were big importers of veg, but now theres more vegetables grown in the UK now than there ever has been. This is only because theres been the influx of foreign labour prepared to muck in and harvest it. It used to be college student work, but its work that is now considered below status for your average ‘‘university’’ graduate. Supply and demand, go figure.

[pat_hasler]

Milk Man:
They haven’t disappeared, time and half after 39 hours, time and half saturday, double time sunday where I work.

Time and a half should be after 8 hours on any day as it used to be by law, it doesn’t matter if you only work one day a week, if you do 12 hours then 4 should be at overtime rate.

[solly]

Let’s face up to reality here.
If all truck drivers stuck together and supported each other, work conditions and wages would get better. Companies and governments can’t bury their heads in the sand forever to what has happened to their advantage and continue to get away with it.
Yes there are problems, and most revolve around those who have the “I’m-alright-Jack” attitude, instilled in the workers by the methods mentioned by others in this and other threads.
You are all “Truck Drivers” whose number are in the 1000’s. Your services cannot be dispensed with. Companies know this. Governments know this and many millions of the populace know is. Or should do.
If you all joined a Union and made reasonable demands, you would have to be listened to by those who are responsible for suppressing wages and conditions. No matter what the threats to your livelyhood, the government couldn’t call in the Army to do your jobs. It just isn’t feasible. The country could come to a standstill.
To those drivers with the “I’m-alright-Jack” attitude you would benefit just as everyone else, without even doing anything. Would you be comfortable with this? To others who say the economy couldn’t cope with it. Rubbish. Just look at some of the profits being posted by companies, and in times of austerity to-boot. They can afford it and the treasury can afford it. They just don’t want you to have it as it means less profit, therefore less money in “Fat-Cat” shareholders pockets. Simples.

[milk_man]

Pat Hasler:

Milk Man:
They haven’t disappeared, time and half after 39 hours, time and half saturday, double time sunday where I work.

Time and a half should be after 8 hours on any day as it used to be by law, it doesn’t matter if you only work one day a week, if you do 12 hours then 4 should be at overtime rate.

Yes your right I do 12 hours and get paid time and a half after 8. What I wrote before was how it was worded in my contract when I was on 5 9 hour shifts, so I guess it wasn’t worded right then.

[mac12]

very well put Solly,never happen though drivers cannot stick together look how most would break tanker drivers strike when they stick together.Drivers love there trucks and the bosses no it.

[redbob]

Thing is, if you dont do the job, there will always be someone who will. Probably due to the financial climate.

[solly]

Big Joe:
So how can you ‘‘rig’’ the market to shift production to another country that pay low wages, again its supply and demand

Without turning the thread into a political debate, in answer to your question above:
it comes under the “Free Trade Agreements” drawn up by “Fat-Cat” super rich shareholders in cahoots with the WTO and the IMF under supervision by the US treasury. To which all signatories are bound. That includes the UK et al.
HTH.

[solly]

redbob:
Thing is, if you dont do the job, there will always be someone who will. Probably due to the financial climate.

Well with a strong union of Truck Drivers who support each other, that situation can be reversed.

[stanley_knife]

EastAnglianTrucker:
Our national treasure, the money made by generations of working people, has been squandered by politicians for the last 40 years.

They’ve bled their own taxpayers dry so they can waste it on vanity projects like aircraft carriers with no aircraft, and nuclear submarines targeting suicide bombers. They’ve used it to privatise our nation’s infrastructure so their masters can make massive, unjustified profits for themselves and their foreign shareholders.

Most obscene of all, they’ve blown it on disastrous wars, that have killed the cream of our youth. They’ve ■■■■■■ it down the drain of uncontrolled welfare and immigrant importation, and they’ve lined they’re own pockets and those of, and here we are back at the start of the thread, the accountants, the lawyers, and especially the bankers!

Excellent post EAT. Unfortunately you’re a lot closer to the truth than a lot of folk would understand. Our politicians have mastered the art of the PR man and can sow an image of good their ideas will bring whilst, at the same time, making those who should benefit from those ideas feel impotent in their complaints that those ideas will/have fail(ed).

(If only someone would do something)!

Stan

[big_joe]

Solly:

Big Joe:
So how can you ‘‘rig’’ the market to shift production to another country that pay low wages, again its supply and demand

Without turning the thread into a political debate, in answer to your question above:
it comes under the “Free Trade Agreements” drawn up by “Fat-Cat” super rich shareholders in cahoots with the WTO and the IMF under supervision by the US treasury. To which all signatories are bound. That includes the UK et al.
HTH.

Its still supply and demand which ever way you dress it up