AlexWignall:
I can’t speak for others but when I meet one of your type of driver in real life I pretend I am Polish so I don’t have to be talked at by you
.
I had a foolproof disguise to avoid scumbag drivers in the Truckstops of Europe.
A clean shirt and jeans…
Oh is that why no one ever comes over to talk to me?! (Thankfully, well often anyway)
This thread has made me chuckle.
It is a historical fact that the fiercest pilots in the Battle of Britain were Polish, they also as a result suffered the highest casualty rate & their efforts/deaths/injury’s were a deciding factor in Britain’s darkest days !
It is also a historical fact that Britain entered the war (as you all know) as a result of Germany invading this country, but!, do you know that when hostility’s ended and the allied forces from every corner of the world who had fought were represented in the VE parades in London the Polish forces were forbidden to march
This was because they & their country were sold down the river (much to Churchill’s disgust) at the Yalta Conference and it would have upset the lunatic Stalin had they been allowed to march. Can you imagine the feeling of betrayal, disgust, anger that they must have felt at that time ?
Decades later !, yes after decades, they have finally managed to come out of the oppression and start afresh some would deny them this. No, the bottom line is we owe them (period)
Now in Britain (unlike the rest of Europe) once a foreign national gets stuck in and works and pays like the rest they effectively become a Brit.
I have lived in Spain now for 8 years and will never become a Spaniard (ever) and in these troubled times a Spaniard will always get the job in front of an immigrant regardless, just how it is, wrong of course (from my perspective) but I accept it.
must admit i`m not a big fan of eastern europeans
vote BNP
switchlogic:
AlexWignall:
I can’t speak for others but when I meet one of your type of driver in real life I pretend I am Polish so I don’t have to be talked at by you
.
I had a foolproof disguise to avoid scumbag drivers in the Truckstops of Europe.
A clean shirt and jeans…
Oh is that why no one ever comes over to talk to me?! (Thankfully, well often anyway)
It might just of been that I’m a boring ■■■■ and nobody wanted to talk to me anyway…
■■■■, when it’s going to be some action, I run out of popcorn.
orys:
Carryfast:
Milked by the SU so where did Poland get it’s natural rescources like oil and gas fromFrom Russia, mostly. The “milking” is in what we had to pay for it.
As in this old joke: we send them container of clothes and in exchange they send us a container of army boots. To repair, polish and return to them
.Don’t know of any Polish oil or gas fields.
Well, I know. Propably this is because I know the subject and you don’t
Also don’t remember the Polish army or the Yugoslav army etc etc turning it’s weapons on the Russians when they all signed the Warsaw Pact which cost us even more money to defend ourselves from an even larger force than Russia.
This made me laugh
You, Brits, cannot make united front of truckers union to fight for your rights, but you blame Poles that because we did not fought the overhelming Soviet army stationed in our country (milions, literaly milions of soldiers) who were, at the same time, the only supplier of ammo etc, you have to pay more for you defence agains Warsaw Pact… So why you did not joined Warsaw Pact if that was so benefitial?
Hungarians tried an regular uprising in 1956. If you knew a little about history, you would know how it ended. You would also know how ended Polish struggle in 1956, 1968. 1970, 1976, 1980 and 1981 and how many people were shoot, tortured or murdered by the secret police. But you doubt these dates means anything to you (and I not blaming you, these are parts of the Polish history, you don’t have to know them. UNLESS you pretend to know something about Polish situation in ■■ century, then some homework would be handy.
Done enough homework to know that if Poland was floating on a lake of oil then the Germans would have used that as a source of oil in ww2 instead of having to rely on a single source from Romania. 
And if the BNP had done it’s homework they’d have realised that what mattered was’nt who flew Spitfires and Hurricanes,as the pc zb’s like to make out in the propaganda,it was the fact that it was British brains and workers who designed and made the things not Poles and east europeans.Which is why the Polish airforce got knocked out of the sky by the Luftwaffe just like both British and Polish pilots would have been if they’d been flying zb Polish aircraft not British ones. 
I also know enough to know that when Yugoslavia took over north eastern Italy at the end of ww2 it was done at the end of Yugoslav gunpoint not the Russians who were’nt even there. 
Dodgy Permit:
This thread has made me chuckle.It is a historical fact that the fiercest pilots in the Battle of Britain were Polish, they also as a result suffered the highest casualty rate & their efforts/deaths/injury’s were a deciding factor in Britain’s darkest days !
It is also a historical fact that Britain entered the war (as you all know) as a result of Germany invading this country, but!, do you know that when hostility’s ended and the allied forces from every corner of the world who had fought were represented in the VE parades in London the Polish forces were forbidden to march
This was because they & their country were sold down the river (much to Churchill’s disgust) at the Yalta Conference and it would have upset the lunatic Stalin had they been allowed to march. Can you imagine the feeling of betrayal, disgust, anger that they must have felt at that time ?
Decades later !, yes after decades, they have finally managed to come out of the oppression and start afresh some would deny them this. No, the bottom line is we owe them (period)Now in Britain (unlike the rest of Europe) once a foreign national gets stuck in and works and pays like the rest they effectively become a Brit.
I have lived in Spain now for 8 years and will never become a Spaniard (ever) and in these troubled times a Spaniard will always get the job in front of an immigrant regardless, just how it is, wrong of course (from my perspective) but I accept it.
Maybe you’d understand what Happened at Yalta if you’d have been one of the wartime British generation and with the knowledge that not only would you have been facing overwhelming Russian forces you’d also have been facing east european commie Russian supporting forces like those Yugoslav zb’s,who we’d been helping previously,who invaded Italy with British losses after the end of ww2.
3 or 4 shifts a week at 8 hours suits me. Let the bloody Proles (sorry Poles) do the work! Reject norms, don’t have kids, don’t have a mortgage and don’t have any big WANT URGES and you’ll get by. Give sweet FA back to a society that is geared to take EVERYTHING from YOU!!
Politics and history count, but, as we continually witness are largely irrelevant. Live for yourself and be a little more Nihilistic…
Carryfast:
Done enough homework to know that if Poland was floating on a lake of oil then the Germans would have used that as a source of oil in ww2 instead of having to rely on a single source from Romania.
Well, if you really did your homework, you would propably heard about Ribbentrop-Molotov pact, thanks to which Polish oil rigs stayed on the Soviet side 
Then after Hitler attacked SU they tried to make use of them, but were pushed back to the West too soon.
As for the Polish oil fields on the see, well, the warzone is not the best place to dig for oil…
And if the BNP had done it’s homework they’d have realised that what mattered was’nt who flew Spitfires and Hurricanes,as the pc zb’s like to make out in the propaganda,it was the fact that it was British brains and workers who designed and made the things not Poles and east europeans.Which is why the Polish airforce got knocked out of the sky by the Luftwaffe just like both British and Polish pilots would have been if they’d been flying zb Polish aircraft not British ones.
What a load of ■■■■■■■■, but somehow I am not surprised…
I will give you a short lesson. I hope some of the readers find it interesting, so it won’t be wasted time…
Just quick brief:
Poland regained it’s independence only 20 years before, so it had no time to accomodate much of the air force. Most of it’s air fleet was outdated and well worn. But that does not mean that Polish air force and construction offices were retarded. Actually they developed many great and modern constructions, such as PZL ÅoÅ›, a bomber, first mass buld plane in the world with folding undercarriage… It was warmly welcomed on the Paris market in 1938 and wide range of countries wished to buy it. Finally 120 of them entered service in PAF.
The situation with Fighter planes was worse, as the newest projects werent up to the stage of the mass production yet, but it’s a shame, as if they were as sucessfull as the previous ones, which were a big export hit around the world, they could compete well with a german airforce…
RWD 25 project:
PZL P24, a big export hit (here in greek livery)
Despite lack of the modern airplanes, the Polish army was fighting well during the september campaign. Fighting with overhelming powers of ■■■■ army on the West and Soviet army from the east they had some significant achievments:
For example on the western front :
Luftwaffe lost 564 armed planes, 285 were destroyed, 279 were damaged with 40% of them beyond repair.
Polish pilots shoot down nearly 150 of them (10 of figthter planes were shoot down by the BOMBER pilots) in the air fight.
Poland lost nearly 350 armed planes (nearly 2.3 of the whole lot). 180 of that number were crashes, mostly when they tried to land with damaged planes (for Poland, unlike Germany, every single plane was very valuable, so leaving the plane and jumping with a parachute was a rarity). Germans destroyed only 70 planes in direct air fight.
And it’s worth to mention that most of the surviving planes were used in the further fights - such as PZL ÅoÅ› flying for Romanian and Bulgarian air force. Some of the Polish planes were even used by the German and Soviet armies.
So that for the september campaign. As for the planes which fly themselves, how is that the Polish pilots flying older Spitfires had better results than their British collegues flying more modern Hurricanes?
wikipedia:
lthough the number of Battle of Britain claims was overestimated (as with virtually all fighter units), No. 303 Squadron was one of top fighter units in the battle and the best Hurricane-equipped one. According to historian John Alcorn, 44 victories are positively verified, making 303 Squadron the fourth highest scoring squadron of the battle, after Squadron Nos. 603 AuxAF (57.8 verified kills), 609 AuxAF (48 verified kills) and 41 (45.33 verified kills), which all flew Spitfires.[5] It was also had the highest kill-to-loss ratio; of 2.8:1. However, J. Alcorn was not able to attribute 30 aircraft shot down to any particular unit, and according to Jerzy Cynk and other Polish historians, the actual number of victories for 303 Squadron was about 55—60
Please note, that unlike other divisions, the 303 was made operational only on 31st of August, that more then month since the Battle for Britain started. Yet it claimed, depending on the source, four to first place in killing ratio (using older planes) despite that it had much shorter time to achieve it than the other three divisions.
And as for the constructors: off course Spitfires and Hurricanes weren’t constructed overnight, but you would find many Polish names working in the british plane counstruction industry during the war. To mention just a few:
Jerzy DÄ…browski, creator of PZL ÅoÅ› working for Percival Aircraft, making training planes for the RAF
Zbysław Ciołkosz, who worked for Aero Mechano, then emigrated to USA and worked for one of the pioneer helicopter company, Piasecki helicopter. (well, Piasecki is not too British name as well, and it just happens that other pioneer of the helicopters, Sikorski, was also from the Polish family )
Sadly (for the British industry) British goverment had similar knowledge about how valuable people are to it’s disposition and wasn’t to interested in using them. Therefore many of them worked in Turkey.
(actually this is fascinating, I had some basic knowledge about this subject, but more I am reading tonight, more fascinating things I am finding!)
I also know enough to know that when Yugoslavia took over north eastern Italy at the end of ww2 it was done at the end of Yugoslav gunpoint not the Russians who were’nt even there.
Well, I don’t know why did you mentioned it, but the Poles were busy in other places. For example in Monte Cassino helping the Brits who struggled to take over the Monte Cassino monastery.
Or trying to get Warsaw free en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warsaw_uprising
Or, if you prefere it in less reading version - this is a song from some Swedish metal band, who actually knows something about history:
(also good song on the question if the equipment is only important thing, or if the soldiers bravery is also important:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0GmjeVrLEbA&feature=related)
Well, thanks for prompting me to do some reading. I learned many interesting facts today.
I hope that anyone will find this interesting as well
Edited:
Maybe you’d understand what Happened at Yalta if you’d have been one of the wartime British generation and with the knowledge that not only would you have been facing overwhelming Russian forces you’d also have been facing east european commie Russian supporting forces like those Yugoslav zb’s,who we’d been helping previously,who invaded Italy with British losses after the end of ww2.
Well, it seems that lot’s of the “wartime British generation” also considered it as a betrayal to the Polish allies:
wikipedia:
These Polish troops were instrumental to the Allied defeat of the Germans in North Africa[citation needed] and Italy[citation needed], and hoped to return to their homes in Kresy in an independent and democratic Poland at the end of the War. But at Yalta, Roosevelt and Churchill largely conceded to Stalin’s demands to annex [11] the territory which in the ■■■■-Soviet Pact he and Hitler had agreed to the Soviet Union controlling, including Kresy, and to carry out Polish population transfers (1944—1946). Consequently, they had agreed that tens of thousands of veteran Polish troops under British command should lose their Kresy homes to the Soviet Union. In reaction, thirty officers and men from the II Corps (Poland) committed suicide.[12]
Churchill defended his actions at Yalta in a three-day Parliamentary debate starting February 27, 1945, which ended in a vote of confidence. During the debate, many MPs openly criticised Churchill and passionately voiced loyalty to Britain’s Polish allies and expressed deep reservations about Yalta.[12] Moreover, 25 of these MPs risked their careers to draft an amendment protesting against Britain’s tacit acceptance of Poland’s ■■■■■■■■■■ by the Soviet Union. These members included: Arthur Greenwood; Sir Archibald Southby, 1st Baronet; Sir Alec Douglas-Home; James Heathcote-Drummond-Willoughby, 3rd Earl of Ancaster and Victor Raikes.[12] After the failure of the amendment, Henry Strauss, 1st Baron Conesford, the Member of Parliament for Norwich, resigned his seat in protest at the British treatment of Poland.[12]
Even Churchill and Rooselvelt themselves quickly realised their mistake:
After receiving considerable criticism in London following Yalta regarding the atrocities committed in Poland by Soviet troops, Churchill wrote Roosevelt a desperate letter referencing the wholesale deportations and liquidations of opposition Poles by the Soviets.[13] Roosevelt, however, maintained his confidence in Stalin, reasoning that Stalin’s early priesthood training had “entered into his nature of the way in which a Christian gentleman should behave.”[1] n March 1, Roosevelt assured Congress that “I come from the Crimea with a firm belief that we have made a start on the road to a world of peace.”[13] By March 21, Roosevelt’s Ambassador to the USSR Averell Harriman cabled Roosevelt that “we must come clearly to realize that the Soviet program is the establishment of totalitarianism, ending personal liberty and democracy as we know it.”[14] Two days later, Roosevelt began to admit that his view of Stalin had been excessively optimistic and that “Averell is right.”[14]
Four days later, on March 27, the Soviet NKVD arrested 16 Polish opposition political leaders that had been invited to participate in provisional government negotiations.[14] The arrests were part of a trick employed by the NKVD, which flew the leaders to Moscow for a later show trial followed by sentencing to a gulag.[14][15] Churchill thereafter argued to Roosevelt that it was “as plain as a pike staff” that Moscow’s tactics were to drag out the period for holding free elections “while the Lublin Committee consolidate their power.”[14] The fraudulent Polish elections, held on January 16, 1947, resulted in Poland’s official transformation to communist state by 1949.
Bloody Hell, and I thought I had been outspoken…
Someone mentioned the Americans not accepting Polish immigrants
I had to go for a couple of beers, I couldn’t stop sniggering
Wheel Nut:
Bloody Hell, and I thought I had been outspoken…Someone mentioned the Americans not accepting Polish immigrants
I had to go for a couple of beers, I couldn’t stop sniggering
I wanted to give him just some brief info, but I needed some numbers, so I googled, I found some interesting articles and then I just get carried away
Fair play, but history and mawkish sentiment should never cloud reality and reasoning on an even playing field. I don’t doubt the Polish’ role in WWII or as a player in an EU integrated society. But when assymetry palpably rears it’s ugly head in an ever depressed climate, then even the most phlegmatic of players is going to have a bite. Xenophobia and racism, should never be confused with realism. The former have no role, but the latter is evident to the astute and intuitive in an ever assymetrical society.
sdg1970:
Fair play, but history and mawkish sentiment should never cloud reality and reasoning on an even playing field. I don’t doubt the Polish’ role in WWII or as a player in an EU integrated society. But when assymetry palpably rears it’s ugly head in an ever depressed climate, then even the most phlegmatic of players is going to have a bite. Xenophobia and racism, should never be confused with realism. The former have no role, but the latter is evident to the astute and intuitive in an ever assymetrical society.
Happy Keith, shouldn’t you be in bed by now?
orys:
Carryfast:
Done enough homework to know that if Poland was floating on a lake of oil then the Germans would have used that as a source of oil in ww2 instead of having to rely on a single source from Romania.Well, if you really did your homework, you would propably heard about Ribbentrop-Molotov pact, thanks to which Polish oil rigs stayed on the Soviet side
As for the Polish oil fields on the see, well, the warzone is not the best place to dig for oil…
And if the BNP had done it’s homework they’d have realised that what mattered was’nt who flew Spitfires and Hurricanes,as the pc zb’s like to make out in the propaganda,it was the fact that it was British brains and workers who designed and made the things not Poles and east europeans.Which is why the Polish airforce got knocked out of the sky by the Luftwaffe just like both British and Polish pilots would have been if they’d been flying zb Polish aircraft not British ones.
What a load of [zb], but somehow I am not surprised…
I will give you a short lesson. I hope some of the readers find it interesting, so it won’t be wasted time…
Just quick brief:
Poland regained it’s independence only 20 years before, so it had no time to accomodate much of the air force. Most of it’s air fleet was outdated and well worn. But that does not mean that Polish air force and construction offices were retarded. Actually they developed many great and modern constructions, such as PZL ÅoÅ›, a bomber, first mass buld plane in the world with folding undercarriage… It was warmly welcomed on the Paris market in 1938 and wide range of countries wished to buy it. Finally 120 of them entered service in PAF.
The situation with Fighter planes was worse, as the newest projects werent up to the stage of the mass production yet, but it’s a shame, as if they were as sucessfull as the previous ones, which were a big export hit around the world, they could compete well with a german airforce…
RWD 25 project:
PZL P24, a big export hit (here in greek livery)
Despite lack of the modern airplanes, the Polish army was fighting well during the september campaign. Fighting with overhelming powers of ■■■■ army on the West and Soviet army from the east they had some significant achievments:
For example on the western front :
Luftwaffe lost 564 armed planes, 285 were destroyed, 279 were damaged with 40% of them beyond repair.
Polish pilots shoot down nearly 150 of them (10 of figthter planes were shoot down by the BOMBER pilots) in the air fight.Poland lost nearly 350 armed planes (nearly 2.3 of the whole lot). 180 of that number were crashes, mostly when they tried to land with damaged planes (for Poland, unlike Germany, every single plane was very valuable, so leaving the plane and jumping with a parachute was a rarity). Germans destroyed only 70 planes in direct air fight.
And it’s worth to mention that most of the surviving planes were used in the further fights - such as PZL ÅoÅ› flying for Romanian and Bulgarian air force. Some of the Polish planes were even used by the German and Soviet armies.
So that for the september campaign. As for the planes which fly themselves, how is that the Polish pilots flying older Spitfires had better results than their British collegues flying more modern Hurricanes?
wikipedia:
lthough the number of Battle of Britain claims was overestimated (as with virtually all fighter units), No. 303 Squadron was one of top fighter units in the battle and the best Hurricane-equipped one. According to historian John Alcorn, 44 victories are positively verified, making 303 Squadron the fourth highest scoring squadron of the battle, after Squadron Nos. 603 AuxAF (57.8 verified kills), 609 AuxAF (48 verified kills) and 41 (45.33 verified kills), which all flew Spitfires.[5] It was also had the highest kill-to-loss ratio; of 2.8:1. However, J. Alcorn was not able to attribute 30 aircraft shot down to any particular unit, and according to Jerzy Cynk and other Polish historians, the actual number of victories for 303 Squadron was about 55—60Please note, that unlike other divisions, the 303 was made operational only on 31st of August, that more then month since the Battle for Britain started. Yet it claimed, depending on the source, four to first place in killing ratio (using older planes) despite that it had much shorter time to achieve it than the other three divisions.
And as for the constructors: off course Spitfires and Hurricanes weren’t constructed overnight, but you would find many Polish names working in the british plane counstruction industry during the war. To mention just a few:
Jerzy DÄ…browski, creator of PZL ÅoÅ› working for Percival Aircraft, making training planes for the RAF
ZbysÅ‚aw CioÅ‚kosz, who worked for Aero Mechano, then emigrated to USA and worked for one of the pioneer helicopter company, Piasecki helicopter. (well, Piasecki is not too British name as well, and it just happens that other pioneer of the helicopters, Sikorski, was also from the Polish familySadly (for the British industry) British goverment had similar knowledge about how valuable people are to it’s disposition and wasn’t to interested in using them. Therefore many of them worked in Turkey.
(actually this is fascinating, I had some basic knowledge about this subject, but more I am reading tonight, more fascinating things I am finding!)
I also know enough to know that when Yugoslavia took over north eastern Italy at the end of ww2 it was done at the end of Yugoslav gunpoint not the Russians who were’nt even there.
Well, I don’t know why did you mentioned it, but the Poles were busy in other places. For example in Monte Cassino helping the Brits who struggled to take over the Monte Cassino monastery.
Or trying to get Warsaw free en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warsaw_uprising
Or, if you prefere it in less reading version - this is a song from some Swedish metal band, who actually knows something about history:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZUYg4AXSpc&feature=related(also good song on the question if the equipment is only important thing, or if the soldiers bravery is also important:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0GmjeVrLEbA&feature=related)Well, thanks for prompting me to do some reading. I learned many interesting facts today.
I hope that anyone will find this interesting as well
Edited:
Maybe you’d understand what Happened at Yalta if you’d have been one of the wartime British generation and with the knowledge that not only would you have been facing overwhelming Russian forces you’d also have been facing east european commie Russian supporting forces like those Yugoslav zb’s,who we’d been helping previously,who invaded Italy with British losses after the end of ww2.
Well, it seems that lot’s of the “wartime British generation” also considered it as a betrayal to the Polish allies:
wikipedia:
These Polish troops were instrumental to the Allied defeat of the Germans in North Africa[citation needed] and Italy[citation needed], and hoped to return to their homes in Kresy in an independent and democratic Poland at the end of the War. But at Yalta, Roosevelt and Churchill largely conceded to Stalin’s demands to annex [11] the territory which in the ■■■■-Soviet Pact he and Hitler had agreed to the Soviet Union controlling, including Kresy, and to carry out Polish population transfers (1944—1946). Consequently, they had agreed that tens of thousands of veteran Polish troops under British command should lose their Kresy homes to the Soviet Union. In reaction, thirty officers and men from the II Corps (Poland) committed suicide.[12]
Churchill defended his actions at Yalta in a three-day Parliamentary debate starting February 27, 1945, which ended in a vote of confidence. During the debate, many MPs openly criticised Churchill and passionately voiced loyalty to Britain’s Polish allies and expressed deep reservations about Yalta.[12] Moreover, 25 of these MPs risked their careers to draft an amendment protesting against Britain’s tacit acceptance of Poland’s ■■■■■■■■■■ by the Soviet Union. These members included: Arthur Greenwood; Sir Archibald Southby, 1st Baronet; Sir Alec Douglas-Home; James Heathcote-Drummond-Willoughby, 3rd Earl of Ancaster and Victor Raikes.[12] After the failure of the amendment, Henry Strauss, 1st Baron Conesford, the Member of Parliament for Norwich, resigned his seat in protest at the British treatment of Poland.[12]Even Churchill and Rooselvelt themselves quickly realised their mistake:
After receiving considerable criticism in London following Yalta regarding the atrocities committed in Poland by Soviet troops, Churchill wrote Roosevelt a desperate letter referencing the wholesale deportations and liquidations of opposition Poles by the Soviets.[13] Roosevelt, however, maintained his confidence in Stalin, reasoning that Stalin’s early priesthood training had “entered into his nature of the way in which a Christian gentleman should behave.”[1] n March 1, Roosevelt assured Congress that “I come from the Crimea with a firm belief that we have made a start on the road to a world of peace.”[13] By March 21, Roosevelt’s Ambassador to the USSR Averell Harriman cabled Roosevelt that “we must come clearly to realize that the Soviet program is the establishment of totalitarianism, ending personal liberty and democracy as we know it.”[14] Two days later, Roosevelt began to admit that his view of Stalin had been excessively optimistic and that “Averell is right.”[14]
Four days later, on March 27, the Soviet NKVD arrested 16 Polish opposition political leaders that had been invited to participate in provisional government negotiations.[14] The arrests were part of a trick employed by the NKVD, which flew the leaders to Moscow for a later show trial followed by sentencing to a gulag.[14][15] Churchill thereafter argued to Roosevelt that it was “as plain as a pike staff” that Moscow’s tactics were to drag out the period for holding free elections “while the Lublin Committee consolidate their power.”[14] The fraudulent Polish elections, held on January 16, 1947, resulted in Poland’s official transformation to communist state by 1949.
The bit you’re forgetting orys is that,just like Hitler,there’s no way that Stalin could have done what he did without a large amount of general support in both Russia and in the East European states (like Yugoslavia as I’ve shown more than once).There’s also no way that even with the knowledge of what the Russians were really like,(check out what happened in Germany when the Russian army invaded at the end of ww2 and kicked us and the Americans out of those areas that they wanted handed over often at gunpoint and just as happened with the Yugoslavs in Italy) ,that us and the Americans could have done anything about it without starting ww3 immediately after ww2 had ended and with the probable result that we’d have lost the lot.
Your idea of the best Polish aircraft and engineering versus the best British ones and engineering seems like another attempt to re write history using bs.The idea that any Hurricane was superior to even a Mk 1 Spitfire,assuming that the Polish squadrons used Spitfires,sounds bonkers to me and are you really suggesting that those heaps that you posted in those pics could have matched a Spitfire in a dog fight with a 109 and a Mosquito and Lancaster in the roles of fighter bomber and bomber 
.
The issue of the Yugoslavs taking over north east Italy at gunpoint had nothing to do with the Poles fighting at Monte Casino because WW2 had actually ended before it even happened.
Carryfast:
The bit you’re forgetting orys is that,just like Hitler,there’s no way that Stalin could have done what he did without a large amount of general support in both Russia and in the East European states (like Yugoslavia as I’ve shown more than once).
Well, I dare to tell, that if the two other biggest powers of the time would stand against Stalin, even this minority of communists in Poland would not be able to help Russian to establish their power there - see Greece, it was for some reason left on the western sphere and despite well organized partisans (much better than communist partisans in Poland) they did not managed to move Greece to the East.
There’s also no way that even with the knowledge of what the Russians were really like,(check out what happened in Germany when the Russian army invaded at the end of ww2 and kicked us and the Americans out of those areas that they wanted handed over often at gunpoint and just as happened with the Yugoslavs in Italy) ,that us and the Americans could have done anything about it without starting ww3 immediately after ww2 had ended and with the probable result that we’d have lost the lot.
Isn’t it what Chamberlain said after selling Czechoslovakia to Hitler? “I bring you peace”… History taught us that it not worked. And it tought us that we were able to beat Nazis even though some people were afraid that it’s impossible (you with your knowledge of the history propably know about British ideas to make deal with Hitler even after the word spreaded across Europe).
Your idea of the best Polish aircraft and engineering versus the best British ones and engineering seems like another attempt to re write history using bs.
Well, the whole chain of the Polish sucesses during middle-war period on the field of the plane construction and pilot skills shows us that it’s not really the ■■■■■■■■. (and it was dating well before first war, like this pioneer plane with pulling propeller build by ZbieraÅ„ski and CywiÅ„ski (that’s fascinasting, never knew that:
)
We don’t know and will never know how the polish project would stay agains the fight with Spitfire, but as we can see from the data I provided to you about September Campaign, even the outdated one were a hard nut for the overhelming force of ■■■■ modern fighter planes…
As for the people and their achievments, few names:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanis%C5%82aw_Wigura
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franciszek_%C5%BBwirko
This guys had a many successes both on the pilot and construction skills, such as winning a challenge 1932 on the plane of their own construction: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Challenge_1932
Also Stanisław Skarżyński, the pilot of the lightest plane to cross the atlantic (6 years after Lindbergh).
Pioneer flight on the route Warsaw- Tokyo - Warsaw.
One of the oldest airlines (LOT - still in operation, created in 1929 from merging two others, dating back to 1921).
Several sucesses in international competitions…
Shortly before the war Polish Pilots were second only to Germans.
The idea that any Hurricane was superior to even a Mk 1 Spitfire,assuming that the Polish squadrons used Spitfires
It is not assumption. These are the facts. Polish squadrons were given Hurricanes much later.
And as for the comparision of the two, I leave it to the proffesionals: wwarii.com/blog/archives/spitfire-vs-hurricane
As for the bombers, it just happens that PZL ÅoÅ› was the most modern bomber of it’s time and class.
His two closest competitors were much worse. Some data for you:
PZL ÅoÅ› (PL): carried 2500 kgs bombs, had max speed of about 400 km/h, w
Heinkel He 111 (D): carried 2000 kgs of bombs, had max speed of about 400 km/h at the same hight and
Vickers Wellington (UK): carried 2041 kgs of bombs, had max speed of 365 km/h at the same height
Il-4 (USSR): could carry safely up to about 1500 kg bombs, the specification says 2600, but the planes fitted with full load were crashing when trying to take off. Max speed 430 km/h.
Somehow in it’s class the British one is the less impressing one 
The problem with ÅoÅ› was that it was only lightly armed (like most of it’s competitors had only 3 machine guns, it wasn’t nothing like flying fortress) because was designed to work in a team with fighter planes. But by 1939 the fighter planes quick enough to copy with it weren’t introduced yet to the Polish Air Force, therefore it had to operate without assistance. On the contrary, German fighter planes were much faster.
Some say that soviet Iljuschyn Il-4 was a result of the espionage in PZL…
vs
(this is actually interesting pic of ÅoÅ› in Luftwaffe )
The issue of the Yugoslavs taking over north east Italy at gunpoint had nothing to do with the Poles fighting at Monte Casino because WW2 had actually ended before it even happened.
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yeah, we had been busy after the war as well…
Ok, that’s it for me. My scanning of 137 pages ended and now I have to sort the scans out. Thanks for another interesting discussion
YAWN
Rob K:
YAWN
Ah, so it’s you who stole all the popcorn! 
commonrail:
must admit i`m not a big fan of eastern europeansvote BNP
Ok what about children born in the uk of EE parents??
should i learn Hungarian at 46 years old and move!!■■
Jesus Christ they go on a bit don’t they. Can’t we just pack Orys and Carryfast off to historynetuk or some such to stop them trying to out do each on who knows most about events from 70 years ago on a truck drivers forum.
History is important and should never be forgotten but does it really matter how many were killed by Poles or Brits in Spitfires? Or who made the best planes? No not really anymore I’m afraid, maybe interesting for you but probably not for the people who contributed to this topic you hijacked, again.
dantruckman:
Coffeeholic:
dantruckman:
What is wrong with you lot never come across a forum like it your all in love with the polish lol im lost for words, all the drivers that I talk to in REAL LIFE share the same views as me.I can’t speak for others but when I meet one of your type of driver in real life I pretend I am Polish so I don’t have to be talked at by you.
dantruckman:
Thats it for me on this subject as I no you little do gooders will call me all sort of names for saying that.Well, I was going to call you a cu, ■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■, but you have neither the warmth nor the depth so decided against it.
I no I shouldent say this but your the sort I give a good rite thump too down my local boozer lol this subject has made me so bloody angry its unreal I want to hit out big time im so ■■■■■■ off with the liberal views.
So, I WAS correct in the first page - you are a National Front thug. Blocked.