The Sarge:
Dodgy Permit:
You really need to drop it mate.
You have been clearly outmaneuvered, clearly out gunned & clearly out thought by the Polish Pilot in this battle+1
Guys, don’t be so harsh to him. I am sure he has a brilliant engine!
Wheel Nut:
Carryfast:
orys:
Carryfast:
It seems that you’re learning then orys that WW2 was’nt just all about Poland’s interests and Polish input.Oh, I knew it all the time. I only talking about Polish effort, because my knowledge on that field is vast compared to the others…
For me it seems rather that it’s you who learns that the war wasn’t won only thanks to Brtisish money and brilliant engineers
Actually orys in the context of those daytime US bomber pilots (and the Poles flying in the battle of Britain) it was mostly British engineers who came up with the idea of putting the British designed Rolls Merlin (not a Polish lump
) into the Spitfire which helped a lot in sorting out the German fighters at the time,and then the Mustang which gave the thing the combination of performance and range needed to finally save a lot more of those US bomber crews by providing them with a decent fighter ■■■■■■ all the way into Germany and back.
Captain Context strikes again
For the same reason the Luftwaffe didn’t use Detroit Diesels instead of using their own Junkers Jumo. The Messerschmitt was designed and built in Germany, so the British used a Rolls Royce in a British aeroplane. The Hungarian Messerschmitt didnt have a RABA engine fitted either
But if the yanks were really as backward as a lot of people say they are they would have fitted Detroit Diesels into the Fortress and bought all their fighters from the Russians and the Polish before the war started 
instead of at least reaching the (correct) conclusion in the end that the Brits had the best engineering know how when it came to making the Mustang work and they did eventually realise that the Mosquito was better than the B 25 and B 26 although we only let them have six of them because we wanted to keep the few we had for ourselves because we knew how good they were long before the yanks did. 
.The Spanish Airforce did actually put the Merlin in their 109’s because they knew what a zb the Daimler Benz was to maintain compared to the Merlin and it’s those that were used in the film Battle of Britain .I’m lucky though in being lucky enough to have seen the real thing at Duxford before a high up officer type from the RAF managed to crash the thing on landing so maybe it would have been better if it had been flown by a Pole. .But still think the Daimler Benz sounds like a Leyland 680 compared to the Merlin .
Dodgy Permit:
Carryfast:
orys:
Carryfast:
It seems that you’re learning then orys that WW2 was’nt just all about Poland’s interests and Polish input.Oh, I knew it all the time. I only talking about Polish effort, because my knowledge on that field is vast compared to the others…
For me it seems rather that it’s you who learns that the war wasn’t won only thanks to Brtisish money and brilliant engineers
Actually orys in the context of those daytime US bomber pilots (and the Poles flying in the battle of Britain) it was mostly British engineers who came up with the idea of putting the British designed Rolls Merlin (not a Polish lump
You really need to drop it mate.
You have been clearly outmaneuvered, clearly out gunned & clearly out thought by the Polish Pilot in this battle
That’s exactly the type of delusion that Goering was under when he thought that it was German pilots that were winning the battle of britain.
Carryfast:
But if the yanks were really as backward as a lot of people say they are they would have fitted Detroit Diesels into the Fortress and bought all their fighters from the Russians and the Polish before the war started
You missing the point here. Army purchases aren’t only based on the technical specifications, but also on strategic analisis. That’s why most of the countries are trying to stick to the vehicles manufactured in their countries, or by their closest allies. That’s why British army drived mostly Bedfords, Fodens etc, because they wanted to have the factory on their ground and have easy access to spare parts etc. (somehow thought the great British engineering proved to be not-so-great and all British lorry manufactures got bankrupt as even the Brits weren’t willing to buy their lorries and now they have to buy Iveco etc).
That’s why if you are in Switzerland you will see that nearly all their army lorries are Saurers - because that was their local manufacturer. It will be Mercedes and Man in Germany, Renault in France, Jelcz and Star (recently MAN made in old Star factory bought by MAN) in Poland, Tatra in Czech and Slovakia, some countries are keeping the factories only for the army purposes, for exaple Israel - nobody likes them around there, and they cannot allow themselves to be dependant on the import by seaports…
That’s why the big countries, such as USA will not buy the things from the Russians or Britons, that’s why your army still uses Land Rovers, despite that there are some army jeeps on the market which don’t brake down all the time etc. Because using own stuff is more important than it’s reliability and design.
Off course if the country has no own manufacturers, it has to buy it from somewhere. That’s why for example Spaniards were one of the biggest export markets for Polish planes before IIWW, but not the only one 
I’m lucky though in being lucky enough to have seen the real thing at Duxford before a high up officer type from the RAF managed to crash the thing on landing so maybe it would have been better if it had been flown by a Pole.
Not if it would be flown by the infamous Tu-154 pilots 
dantruckman:
Im sure the majority of British drivers out there feel the same way I do, and take a good hard one up the arse.
Not me but each to their own…
orys:
Carryfast:
But if the yanks were really as backward as a lot of people say they are they would have fitted Detroit Diesels into the Fortress and bought all their fighters from the Russians and the Polish before the war startedYou missing the point here. Army purchases aren’t only based on the technical specifications, but also on strategic analisis. That’s why most of the countries are trying to stick to the vehicles manufactured in their countries, or by their closest allies. That’s why British army drived mostly Bedfords, Fodens etc, because they wanted to have the factory on their ground and have easy access to spare parts etc. (somehow thought the great British engineering proved to be not-so-great and all British lorry manufactures got bankrupt as even the Brits weren’t willing to buy their lorries and now they have to buy Iveco etc).
That’s why if you are in Switzerland you will see that nearly all their army lorries are Saurers - because that was their local manufacturer. It will be Mercedes and Man in Germany, Renault in France, Jelcz and Star (recently MAN made in old Star factory bought by MAN) in Poland, Tatra in Czech and Slovakia, some countries are keeping the factories only for the army purposes, for exaple Israel - nobody likes them around there, and they cannot allow themselves to be dependant on the import by seaports…
That’s why the big countries, such as USA will not buy the things from the Russians or Britons
Orys in the case of the Merlin powered Mustang,Spitfire and Mosquito the US did take them and prefer them over their own products just on the basis of the performance and technical specifications provided by their British engineering compared to the American products available at the time.Their bomber force would also probably have been a lot more effective if they’d used the Lancaster instead of the Fortress in Europe too considering it’s bombload capacity.
Carryfast:
Orys in the case of the Merlin powered Mustang,Spitfire and Mosquito the US did take them and prefer them over their own products just on the basis of the performance and technical specifications provided by their British engineering compared to the American products available at the time.Their bomber force would also probably have been a lot more effective if they’d used the Lancaster instead of the Fortress in Europe too considering it’s bombload capacity.
Off course. This is the case when you buy from your closest ally.
The Sarge:
Bloody hell mate, you’ll never fit in with that attitude
I apologise to you, on behalf of all right-thinking Brits, for that [zb]…
And I agree with you Sarge. I can’t believe how negative people can be, and blame everything but themselves for the situation they find themselves in.
EastAnglianTrucker:
The Sarge:
Bloody hell mate, you’ll never fit in with that attitude
I apologise to you, on behalf of all right-thinking Brits, for that [zb]…And I agree with you Sarge. I can’t believe how negative people can be, and blame everything but themselves for the situation they find themselves in.
Don’t see any actual reasoning as to how you’ve reached that conclusion and if you think that it’s correct to throw the country’s economic interests away to the global free market economy then there’s not much point in continuing with it’s national sovereignty and defence either.Might as well just throw the borders open,put up a sign saying that it was Britain,and if any foreign community wants to make up a majority here they can have the place. 
Carryfast:
Don’t see any actual reasoning as to how you’ve reached that conclusion and if you think that it’s correct to throw the country’s economic interests away to the global free market economy then there’s not much point in continuing with it’s national sovereignty and defence either.Might as well just throw the borders open,put up a sign saying that it was Britain,and if any foreign community wants to make up a majority here they can have the place.
…says a member of the nation where the most popular national meal is… Curry!
orys:
Carryfast:
Don’t see any actual reasoning as to how you’ve reached that conclusion and if you think that it’s correct to throw the country’s economic interests away to the global free market economy then there’s not much point in continuing with it’s national sovereignty and defence either.Might as well just throw the borders open,put up a sign saying that it was Britain,and if any foreign community wants to make up a majority here they can have the place.…says a member of the nation where the most popular national meal is… Curry!
Lili Marlene was also one of the most popular songs here during WW2
dantruckman:
Yep you SEEM to be a clever ■■■■ to me mate. My point im trying to get across is this…If a company only need say 2 drivers for 1 night now theres 4 of us wanting the work 2 Poles and 2 Brits us BRITS should get the work wether the poles have been there longer than us or not. But it dont SEEM to work like that.
sounds like crap to me. At the end of the day there people just like you earning a crust. if you don’t like it work harder
dantruckman:
LET ME PUT IT THIS WAY SO YOU CAN UNDERSTAND IT BLOODY HELLS BELLS.THIS IS HAPPENING IN MY AREA
A nice little polish driver has been at the agency for 6 months and me a british driver only 1 month.
Now a company calls and says can i have a driver for the night shift now the pole gets the postion I took this up with the agency there answer to this was hes been with us longer than you so he gets first choice.
Now that cant be right and NO IM NOT A CRAP DRIVER ive got a clean licence and am a very polite good boy when in work.
The agencys round here seem to believe in = rites wether your a pole or british driver I think this is wrong we should come first in our own country DO YOU UNDERSTAND MY POINT NOW. FFS
Its almost as if you lot want to protect these little darling polish drivers, I got nothing against them as people hell I even let one buy me a coffe the other night we had a good talk about this he could see my point. maybe most of you have got a nice little permanent job earning a nice wage each week and this dont effect you.
he has been there longer then you and proved that he is a better worker then you as you only been there a month, and no i don’t get your point.
mickyblue:
dantruckman:
Yep you SEEM to be a clever ■■■■ to me mate. My point im trying to get across is this…If a company only need say 2 drivers for 1 night now theres 4 of us wanting the work 2 Poles and 2 Brits us BRITS should get the work wether the poles have been there longer than us or not. But it dont SEEM to work like that.sounds like crap to me. At the end of the day there people just like you earning a crust. if you don’t like it work harder
Actually that’s exactly the rules as they applied in our old colonies of Canada and the US,although even a lot stricter than that,when I wanted to go to work there during the 1980’s.In the US it was a case of no chance of even getting a work permit for truck driving and in Canada,even in the (very) unlikely event of getting a work permit,the job had to stay advertised for Canadian nationals and if one wanted it that was it out.Simples.But no one (rightly) then called them fascist neanderthals and the rules have only changed relatively recently there now because of a severe driver shortage and you can bet if they’ve got many drivers unemployed or who want the work things would go back to how they were then.So why the double standards for us now.
I love carryfast, he is like a proper window licker and can cause an argument in an empty street. For months he has been decrying the British engineering skills to promote his beloved American tat. As soon as the educated Pole gives as good as he gets, he all of a sudden wants to say that Britain is best. Jaguar is owned by the Indians, his old scrap car was built by British Leyland.
Make your mind up man!
Carryfast:
Lili Marlene was also one of the most popular songs here during WW2
Well, I guess that Lili Marlene is a part of Europewide heritage:
youtube.com/watch?v=9xmJAcn-u9I
Wheel Nut:
I love carryfast, he is like a proper window licker and can cause an argument in an empty street. For months he has been decrying the British engineering skills to promote his beloved American tat. As soon as the educated Pole gives as good as he gets, he all of a sudden wants to say that Britain is best. Jaguar is owned by the Indians, his old scrap car was built by British Leyland.Make your mind up man!
Blimey wheelnut I thought that it was the op not me who started the discussions here.Whatever the rights and wrongs of his case may or may not be,the general arguments,in favour of allowing carte blanche for opening up the domestic labour market here to the global free market economy,often seem to be based on some unwarranted accusations that British workers are’nt as good,in many cases,as their east european competitors 
.I’ve been making a case which shows otherwise.
I have’nt said anything which decries British ‘engineering skills’ relative to the American competition and as Bewick would admit where I’ve made unfavourable comparisons between British products and American ones it was the pressure put on British manufacturers by misguided customers and sometimes bad management decisions by those manufacturers that I’ve blamed for that not British workers.So on that note there was no reason why we could’nt have been turning out trucks that could match anything the yanks can or better (Scammell Commander versus Oshkosh at the top levels of design being an example of Brit engineering ).
In my view all I’ve done is to give both the yanks ‘and the Brits’ credit through history where it’s due,for their efforts during WW2 which seems to be important to orys , and when they turn out decent products and constructive criticism,accurately directed,when they don’t 
.But I certainly would’nt brand anything which I’ve given the yanks credit for in the past as ‘tat’ and that so called ‘old scrap car’,although it’s over 25 years old,can still pass the MOT and run happily at 165 mph + so it’s a credit to those who designed it and built it although having said that I’ve given it an engine and driveline spec that the firm’s management did’nt,but could have done,with the components that they had available to them at the time.
But the fact that Jaguar is now owned by the Indians is a symptom of the idea of a global free market economy instead of one subject to more protectionist policies that put the national interest first .
Some interesting reading for you:
economist.com/blogs/bagehot/ … on_britain
Interesting view: comparing consequences to Britain from opening work market to Poles with Germans, who managed to keep it shut till few days ago.
orys:
Some interesting reading for you:
economist.com/blogs/bagehot/ … on_britainInteresting view: comparing consequences to Britain from opening work market to Poles with Germans, who managed to keep it shut till few days ago.
The fact is that the German economy is,as usual,better off,so far,than the British one and we’ve got plenty of our own graduates leaving universities who can’t find decent jobs so have to work in hamburger cafes instead so where’s the case for needing to import so called cleverer people from eastern europe and how can it be good for those east european countries to lose those so called clever zb’s when they need them themselves to build up their own countries economies instead of zb’ing up ours by lowering wage rates. .
The fact is that the east european issue is just one of taking advantage of what they can get out of the more developed western european states because they are’nt clever enough to make their own countries into the type of place where they want to stay themselves by their own efforts.However the issue in this topic is one of east european drivers working here not college graduates and if the banker who wrote that story is correct then why is it that the USA and Canada does’nt seem to see things the same way in allowing an open door immigration policy for european workers and drivers .Probably because they know that the last thing that they need is any issues which would reduce their income levels even more relative to prices .
orys:
Carryfast:
Don’t see any actual reasoning as to how you’ve reached that conclusion and if you think that it’s correct to throw the country’s economic interests away to the global free market economy then there’s not much point in continuing with it’s national sovereignty and defence either.Might as well just throw the borders open,put up a sign saying that it was Britain,and if any foreign community wants to make up a majority here they can have the place.…says a member of the nation where the most popular national meal is… Curry!
Another brilliant reply Orys! (And it’s not even your native language! Respect!)