Herd immunity from a layman’s perspective is one of many characteristic’s we share with the animal kingdom in that a percentage of the population will not get the full Covid hit just a partial dose this allows their immune system to either get over excited or view it as no real threat and develop antibodies.
This stops the virus multiplying and thus being passed on to others in big doses.
Massive collateral damage is a by product of this and evolutionary traits can play a big part as well as general health and life experience/history of exposure/illness.
No links as I haven’t looked this up so could be wrong in places.
Did look into CD4 and CD8 cells and viral load as wondered if HIV treatment could be adapted to covid-19, didn’t last long on scientistuk forum before I was outed as a drunk trucker…
Dipper_Dave:
Herd immunity from a layman’s perspective is one of many characteristic’s we share with the animal kingdom in that a percentage of the population will not get the full Covid hit just a partial dose this allows their immune system to either get over excited or view it as no real threat and develop antibodies.
This stops the virus multiplying and thus being passed on to others in big doses.
Massive collateral damage is a by product of this and evolutionary traits can play a big part as well as general health and life experience/history of exposure/illness.
No links as I haven’t looked this up so could be wrong in places.
Did look into CD4 and CD8 cells and viral load as wondered if HIV treatment could be adapted to covid-19, didn’t last long on scientistuk forum before I was outed as a drunk trucker…
I think you would have been reading before posting. [emoji3].
Here is the Wikipedia explanation en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herd_immunity
Note that it talks firstly about members of a commmunity (the herd) becoming immune through vaccination.
.
Herein lies the issue some have with the “planned” herd immunity in the current case of COVID 19: the present scheme is that, because there is currently no vaccine, the majority will need to achieve immunity through being infected, and achieving immunity afterwards. Lots of points of dispute there.
Dipper_Dave:
My view is that it’s one of many virus’s that have made a species jump
Oh wait but conveniently no sign of it transmitting from humans back to animals.
Let’s hope it stays that way if pets where found to be carriers/infectors we would be moving into planet of the apes territory.
Then there’s the whole area of viral infections we can catch from our pets, Rabies anybody. But vaccine developments are very affective and have pretty much wiped this out in developed countries, perhaps they help with Covid who knows.
So therefore immunising our pets also might also help protect them from us.
Just a theory.
The species that is an emerging rabies issue is yes you’ve guessed it ‘bats’. (I did look this up)
Think you may be locked into your China paranoia though at a cult level, perhaps take a step back maybe look at other avenues if in doing so you always end back up at China conspiracy theories you may be onto something.
Dipper_Dave:
Think you may be locked into your China paranoia though at a cult level, perhaps take a step back maybe look at other avenues if in doing so you always end back up at China conspiracy theories you may be onto something.
I would have said that cultists were somewhat narrow in their views?
At least CF has a wide range of differing conspiracy theories, and doesn`t need to stop believing in one to believe in another too. (or three!)
Dipper_Dave:
Herd immunity from a layman’s perspective is one of many characteristic’s we share with the animal kingdom in that a percentage of the population will not get the full Covid hit just a partial dose this allows their immune system to either get over excited or view it as no real threat and develop antibodies.
This stops the virus multiplying and thus being passed on to others in big doses.
Massive collateral damage is a by product of this and evolutionary traits can play a big part as well as general health and life experience/history of exposure/illness.
No links as I haven’t looked this up so could be wrong in places.
Did look into CD4 and CD8 cells and viral load as wondered if HIV treatment could be adapted to covid-19, didn’t last long on scientistuk forum before I was outed as a drunk trucker…
100 ( supposedly ) recovered/immune for 2,000 dead ain’t collateral damage.That’s a thermonuclear bioweapon.Bearing in mind herd immunity means 80% + total population recovered and it means anti bodies and clear of virus.That probably explains why the government went back on the original herd immunity plan.
Which just leaves the question can we trust any of the recovery figures given.
Franglais:
Here is the Wikipedia explanation en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herd_immunity
Note that it talks firstly about members of a commmunity (the herd) becoming immune through vaccination.
.
Herein lies the issue some have with the “planned” herd immunity in the current case of COVID 19: the present scheme is that, because there is currently no vaccine, the majority will need to achieve immunity through being infected, and achieving immunity afterwards. Lots of points of dispute there.
Herd immunity by definition is based on natural immunity by anti body response killing the virus.Not vaccination.As I said we had herd immunity to measles before MMR vaccines and it would be right to say that by implication there were/had to be collateral casualties.Let’s just say that we would have got a ‘bit’ worried if only 100’s had survived for 1,000’s of measles deaths.Or even believe anyone who said trust us the 100’s figure is believable this illness is recoverable.
The fact is bioweapon designers obviously aren’t in the business of making them easy to get anti body response to.
In this case they seem to be using alien to us specific animal virus artificially mixed with a human specific transmitter to create a violent rejection response by the immune system not an anti body immune response.SARS looks like the prototype this looks like the turbocharged ‘gain of function’ version.
Dipper_Dave:
Then there’s the whole area of viral infections we can catch from our pets, Rabies anybody.
Oh wait rabid humans can transmit rabies to a cow or a dog by biting it.Just like a dog can transmit rabies to a human.A bat can carry rabies with no problem but it can infect humans or cows and then cows can transmit it to humans by fluids getting into a scratch and humans can then transmit it to anything else in the right ( wrong albeit rare ) circumstances.
I won’t hold my breath waiting for an answer to why isn’t that the case with this ‘zoonotic’ virus.
Which is clearly only ‘zoonotic’ in its base but.Everything from there is all specifically human transmission only.The Chinese obviously don’t want to kill all our beef and pork ( or the dogs ) when they arrive here for dinner over our dead bodies.
It isn’t China or America that bothers me. Just the way our government has spun this from the start.
We’ve yet to have explained to us why exactly our economy must be utterly ruined first…
Making everyone skint - I can’t see how that saves any lives at all?
Boris amd Trump now seem to be heading in different directions with regards to this crisis…
Trump, despite not having control of Congress - gets a $2trillion bill through, and it looks like that money is already making its way to the people on the street.
Boris, despite having a full majority - decides to close parliament outright, leaving the chancellor to implement his back-of-an-envelope bailout £300billion - which looks like being entirely intercepted by the BANKS.
Know anyone who’s recently made a successful Furlough application (money being received by this point…) or a successfull application for Universal Credit (money being received by this point…)
Does anyone work for a firm who’s even had a letter “promising them money by June” as Sunak spoke of?
“Good Intentions” are not enough to get past “Moral Hazard” alas…
Had Corbyn won the last election, I would imagine the Banks would have done exactly the same to HIS plans to reform the economy, and introduce key Labour policies…
All it takes is a banking cartel and some upstart “Humphrey” civil servant to tear it all asunder…
Winseer:
It isn’t China or America that bothers me. Just the way our government has spun this from the start.
We’ve yet to have explained to us why exactly our economy must be utterly ruined first…
Making everyone skint - I can’t see how that saves any lives at all?
Boris amd Trump now seem to be heading in different directions with regards to this crisis…
Trump, despite not having control of Congress - gets a $2trillion bill through, and it looks like that money is already making its way to the people on the street.
Boris, despite having a full majority - decides to close parliament outright, leaving the chancellor to implement his back-of-an-envelope bailout £300billion - which looks like being entirely intercepted by the BANKS.
Know anyone who’s recently made a successful Furlough application (money being received by this point…) or a successfull application for Universal Credit (money being received by this point…)
Does anyone work for a firm who’s even had a letter “promising them money by June” as Sunak spoke of?
“Good Intentions” are not enough to get past “Moral Hazard” alas…
Had Corbyn won the last election, I would imagine the Banks would have done exactly the same to HIS plans to reform the economy, and introduce key Labour policies…
All it takes is a banking cartel and some upstart “Humphrey” civil servant to tear it all asunder…
My old mans had 2 letters.
First one stating the application was made to collect the furlough payment for employees.
Yesterday received one to say the applications had been acknowledged and now was in the hands of the government. Under no circumstances contact the company as its out of thier hands.
Wished everyone good health and a stay safe messege.
Franglais:
Here is the Wikipedia explanation en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herd_immunity
Note that it talks firstly about members of a commmunity (the herd) becoming immune through vaccination.
.
Herein lies the issue some have with the “planned” herd immunity in the current case of COVID 19: the present scheme is that, because there is currently no vaccine, the majority will need to achieve immunity through being infected, and achieving immunity afterwards. Lots of points of dispute there.
As I said in the case of our old natural immunity to Measles it was always just that there was no vaccine.The difference was to my knowledge was no one died from it because of a cytokine storm .
So there’s nothing to dispute.The government knows in this case that natural immunity to this thing is a non starter.The immune system goes into full on rejection mode it doesn’t produce antibodies to it.While the idea that it goes nuts for some but anti bodies for others also sounds like bs.
The fact that the government bottled out of ( natural ) herd immunity is the proof.We’d probably have had people dropping like flies.They probably still will but it will be over a longer period making the possible apocalyptic fall out of this manageable and less likely to spook the public.
Or it’s all a fake virus to implement a power grab and hide the fact that the economy can no longer sustain itself because a load of white collar pen pushers and fast food servers have nothing to offer in exchange for their BMW’s and Mercs and Audis and container loads of Chinese junk.
Dipper_Dave:
Think you may be locked into your China paranoia though at a cult level, perhaps take a step back maybe look at other avenues if in doing so you always end back up at China conspiracy theories you may be onto something.
I would have said that cultists were somewhat narrow in their views?
At least CF has a wide range of differing conspiracy theories, and doesn`t need to stop believing in one to believe in another too. (or three!)
Yep multiple explanations and no exact conclusive conclusion is how I see objectivety.
I’ve whittled it down to my main front runners being either they’ve made a monumental zb up in having allowed a bioweapon escape/release into the country.
Or it’s a fake staged event to create a pretext for a power grab and with it what seems like a massive economic smoke and mirrors theft/write down scam.
Either way they obviously need a dodgy recovery figure either just enough to maintain public order.Or just low enough to maintain the required project fear for a power grab based on the fake virus.
The really scary bit being firstly Haotian’s speech and the fact that any need to just maintain project fear for a power grab would be expected to show a higher recovery figure to provide a decent carrot to go with the stick and the promise of natural herd immunity coming tomorrow would be enough to do the job of maintaining that diversion.Open airports would be explained by the government knows there’s no real need to give a zb anymore but they can’t tell the public that.Essential supplies only needed again to maintain public order.The rest of the economy doesn’t matter any more because this time next year it and us won’t be around.The delegation of authority from central government to councils and police contained in the act is straight out of the old strategic air attack text book.
Either way I still think CCP is pulling the strings behind the scenes.If not why would a fake virus need to have any connection with China unless CCP are involved in the scam.
If its a power grab it all seems suspiciously like their MO.
IE instead of Haotian’s mass murder and takeover and eventual colonisation plan we just end up as an asset stripped, puppet vassal of China and CCP.
In which they’ll still expect their food supply shipments sent back while we starve.
If it’s Haotian’s plan possibly even accidentally been released prematurely, CCP are obviously still behind it.
Except for the fact that our Boomer sub crews won’t be affected and the launch codes don’t seem to be the literal firing sequence code only the clearance to fire.No chance of that if they think the relevant command are all compromised/dead/dying.
‘If’ I’m going out to a CCP bio weapon that’ll be the last hope I take with me and I actually prefer that scenario to the CCP coup over our government and country.The very definition of better dead than red that I grew up with and know and trust.
She’s had enough, she’s in pain, and she’s waiting for a hospital bed. Although we both know, that that is as much her doctor’s wish, as it is an attempt to give her comfort…
Trying to carry on, when you know you’re not going to get out on the other end, is terrible. Having to watch it, is …
I dont know. It’s horrible, but not as bad as the one who is dying?
Academics from Oxford have predicted that just over 30 million are possibly infected, and have been “in talks” with the government. I suspect that this backs up the government’s slow response time as unfortunately many have apparently been affected therefore we were already herded. I respect everyone’s opinion on this issue, but personally think that if true, it’s been lingering for much longer than they are telling us. Either way, regardless of opinion we will never know the truth, but I can’t help but think that figures have been manipulated to suit something.
Skids78:
I can’t help but think that figures have been manipulated to suit something.
The key is the ‘recovered’ figure and the definition of ‘recovered’.
So why are they so keen on concentrating on case figures when it’s recovered that we need to know.In this case we need something like 36 million to catch this and recover from it with proper long term natural immunity gained from that recovery.
Good luck with recent weird figures like low hundreds recovered for 40,000 + cases.
Also no actual clear statements as to the exact definition of ‘recovery’.Only long term natural immunity on recovery will cut it.
Just been on the tv this morning that the Scousers and the Smoggies are top of the league table for flounting the rules of social mixing and gathering.
There’s also a 25% raise in reported domestic violence.
Nowt to do, no work, pub shut bored stiff, stuck in the house, so hammer the Mrs. …
Men? …nah, complete pieces of ■■■■.
robroy:
Just been on the tv this morning that the Scousers and the Smoggies are top of the league table for flounting the rules of social mixing and gathering.
There’s also a 25% raise in reported domestic violence.
Nowt to do, no work, pub shut bored stiff, stuck in the house, so hammer the Mrs. …
Men? …nah, complete pieces of [zb].
It’s not just men… last night there was a commotion three doors down, lots of screaming by a woman, including “get your hands of me”. But that was her, screaming at the police, before she was, somewhat unsteady on her feet, ‘escorted’ into the back of the police van…
If anything, it has been uncharacteristically quiet in this street. Not seen the police out for weeks.
robroy:
Just been on the tv this morning that the Scousers and the Smoggies are top of the league table for flounting the rules of social mixing and gathering.
There’s also a 25% raise in reported domestic violence.
Nowt to do, no work, pub shut bored stiff, stuck in the house, so hammer the Mrs. …
Men? …nah, complete pieces of [zb].
I’m surprised so many people can get through to the police to even lodge such “statistics”…
…Far easier to make up any numbers you want, to keep people at home, and not cause any bother for the authorities whilst they cannot be answering the phone…
I hold any figures put out on mainstream TV - in the highest suspicion these days.
Around here, the crime rate has totally collapsed, because guess what? - The vast majority of “Crime” used to be committed by people out and about, oddly enough.
Daughter ( nurse ) sent home & told to isolate , had covid positive patients on
Ward for 2 weeks , full ppe , paranoid about washing clothes , hands & seems she
Still got it
Worrying times
…
