Harry Monk:
Why can’t you have a 45 hour break in the truck?
The regulations don’t allow it.
Article 8
Where a driver chooses to do this, daily rest periods and
reduced weekly rest periods away from base may be taken in a
vehicle, as long as it has suitable sleeping facilities for each
driver and the vehicle is stationary.
Article 8 (8) defines the type of rest which can be taken in a vehicle and a full weekly rest isn’t one of them.
Article 8 (8) should be read with article 8 (7) surely, so is referring to when taking a break with rest taken as compensation, so if for example you want to add your compensation to a 45 hour break (a rest period of at least 9 hours) then you can take it in your truck, otherwise the way it is interpreted would mean you have to pay back any weekend hours on a daily rest period and not on a weekend, or is that the case as well?
Any rest taken as compensation for a reduced weekly rest
period shall be attached to another rest period of at least nine
hours.
Where a driver chooses to do this, daily rest periods and
reduced weekly rest periods away from base may be taken in a
vehicle, as long as it has suitable sleeping facilities for each
driver and the vehicle is stationary.
The problem with these regulations is they are open to different interpretation and because they are ambiguous without a court case setting president either can be seen as the correct interpretation
Harry Monk:
Why can’t you have a 45 hour break in the truck?
The regulations don’t allow it.
Article 8
Where a driver chooses to do this, daily rest periods and
reduced weekly rest periods away from base may be taken in a
vehicle, as long as it has suitable sleeping facilities for each
driver and the vehicle is stationary.
Article 8 (8) defines the type of rest which can be taken in a vehicle and a full weekly rest isn’t one of them.
Article 8 (8) should be read with article 8 (7) surely,
Article 8 (7) is about compensation for weekly rest periods, Article 8 (8) is about taking rest periods in a vehicle and isn’t just about rest periods with compensation. They don’t need to be read together.
You want to know about rest periods you look at Article 8. If you are specifically looking for information regarding compensation for reduced weekly rest periods you look at 8 (7) and if it is about what kind of rest can be taken in a vehicle you look at 8 (8). If the wording in Article 8 (8) was meant to be part of 8 (7) it wouldn’t be in a separate section, it would all be part of 8 (7), in the way 8 (6) has different bits within it.
jimti:
The problem with these regulations is they are open to different interpretation and because they are ambiguous without a court case setting president either can be seen as the correct interpretation
There isn’t really anything to interpret here. If the regulations just said where a driver chooses to do so rest periods may be taken in a vehicle then that would be fine, all types of rest could be taken in a vehicle regardless of location or anything else. However, because they have specified which type of rest can be taken in a vehicle then any not specified cannot. That’s the way regulations work.
You want to know what kind of rest can be taken in a vehicle so you look up the regulations and find this.
Where a driver chooses to do this, daily rest periods and reduced weekly rest periods away from base may be taken in a vehicle
Forget what drivers are doing each week all over Europe without problem and just read that bit of the regulations. That answers your question and as with reading all regulations don’t add in stuff that isn’t there. If they wanted it to be in there they would either have to state that full weekly rests may be taken in the vehicle, or not mention any specific types of rest periods so all would be included. Full weekly rest is not there in Article 8 (8) so don’t add it in. Adding stuff into the regulations is what causes confusion and the idea there are grey areas or it’s down to interpretation. Often the reason people say they find the regulations difficult and confusing is because they are not just reading what’s there and are adding bits in.
in the same way as you read it doesn’t say take weekly rest in the truck so you can’t I read it doesn’t say you can’t take weekly rest in the truck so you can! There is the confusion.
As there is no reguation saying you can’t take the rest in the truck (only one saying you can take a reduced one in the truck) then as far as I can see you are the one reading stuff into the regulations that aren’t there. If they didn’t want you to take full weekly breaks in a truck surely they would have had Article 8 (7a) you cannot take a full weekly rest in a truck even if it has a bed etc etc
(17) This Regulation aims to improve social conditions for
employees who are covered by it, as well as to improve
general road safety. It does so mainly by means of the
provisions pertaining to maximum driving times per day,
per week and per period of two consecutive weeks, the
provision which obliges drivers to take a regular weekly
rest period at least once per two consecutive weeks and
the provisions which prescribe that under no circumstances
should a daily rest period be less than an
uninterrupted period of nine hours. Since those provisions
guarantee adequate rest, and also taking into
account experience with enforcement practices during
the past years, a system of compensation for reduced
daily rest periods is no longer necessary.
Any rest taken as compensation for a reduced weekly rest
period shall be attached to another rest period of at least nine
hours.
Where a driver chooses to do this, daily rest periods and
reduced weekly rest periods away from base may be taken in a
vehicle, as long as it has suitable sleeping facilities for each
driver and the vehicle is stationary.
This Regulation shall be binding in its entirety and directly applicable in all Member States.
Done at Strasbourg, 15 March 2006.
For the European Parliament
The President
J. BORRELL FONTELLES
For the Council
The President
H. WINKLER
I have read the entire document again plus all six guidance notes “Separate PDF”
I cannot see any grey areas or confusion and what is written in the regulation that was passed in Strabourg on the 15th March 2006
Whether the regulation was written as a simple mistake or typography, this is the regulation we, the lawmakers and lawbreakers have to deal with, unless it was written so:
Where a driver chooses to do this, daily rest periods and
weekly rest periods away from base may be taken in a
vehicle, as long as it has suitable sleeping facilities for each
driver and the vehicle is stationary.
It is through these little things that Nick Freeman is a celebrity lawyer, a former public schoolboy and a rich golfing partner of my mate Edward.
It has been said all along, any regulation or legislation is only valid if you use and understand every word, there is a huge difference between “could and should”. There is an even bigger difference between “may and must”
jimti:
in the same way as you read it doesn’t say take weekly rest in the truck so you can’t I read it doesn’t say you can’t take weekly rest in the truck so you can! There is the confusion.
As there is no reguation saying you can’t take the rest in the truck (only one saying you can take a reduced one in the truck) then as far as I can see you are the one reading stuff into the regulations that aren’t there. If they didn’t want you to take full weekly breaks in a truck surely they would have had Article 8 (7a) you cannot take a full weekly rest in a truck even if it has a bed etc etc
They don’t need to have a separate section specifying the type of rest you can take in a truck because the one they have does both. By clearly defined the type of rest you can take in a vehicle any not mentioned cannot.
As I said before if they hadn’t specified which rests can ne taken in a vehicle, i.e. just said rest periods may be taken in a vehicle, then all rests would be allowed. But the way it is worded it is only those specified that can be and full weekly isn’t specified.
I’m not adding anything into the regulations, you are. I am saying the kind of rest that can be taken in a vehicle are just those listed, daily and reduced weekly, but you are adding full weekly rest to that list.
Forget for a minute everything you know about the regs and pretend you are not a driver but for some strange reason you want to know if a truck driver can take a rest in a vehicle. You look in the regulations which cover this and find Article 8 which tells you about the various types of rest available. You then get to Article 8 (8) and after reading it would you then think you can take all rest in a vehicle or just the ones specifically mentioned?
I have just shown a friend who doesnt drive and it makes perfect sense to him too.
We have a copy of the ACU Code of Conduct and we quiz each other on it, occasionally a small change will cause mayhem out on the track.
For instance: “The clerk of the course may exclude someone for dangerous riding”, and one small change to that wording makes a huge difference to a race rerun.
Try exchanging may for must or will! These books are gone over with a fine toothed comb by lawyers based in the Isle of Man and the fee is astronomical
Coffeeholic:
Forget for a minute everything you know about the regs and pretend you are not a driver but for some strange reason you want to know if a truck driver can take a rest in a vehicle. You look in the regulations which cover this and find Article 8 which tells you about the various types of rest available. You then get to Article 8 (8) and after reading it would you then think you can take all rest in a vehicle or just the ones specifically mentioned?
I would think they didn’t address what you could or could not do for a weekend and would walk away confused.
There are countless thousands of drivers accross Europe every weekend taking 45 hour beaks in their trucks thinking they are within the regulations, now tell me again there isn’t any confusion!
The notes at the top of the document interest me in this case.
(17) This Regulation aims to improve social conditions for
employees who are covered by it, as well as to improve
general road safety.
Now how can reducing my minimum weekly rest at base to 24 hours from 36 hours be seen to improve my social conditions?
It can if they promise me I will be at home the next weekend for a weekly rest period plus some compensation that I owe the bank. Once the planner gets the hang of it we should be weekended on a closed French service area for only 24 hours but in 7 days I will be tucked up at home for 45 hours plus my previous reduction of 21 hours. 66 hours at home, she would have me decorating every other weekend
I realise these are extremes as most weekends I probably got 48 or 50 hours at base and 36 if away,.
Yes because it relates to Article 8, section 7 immediately preceding Article 8 section 8
I sugested they be read together but Coffee said they are not, see post Nov 23rd 3:38 pm
I said they were related, not joined at the hip. Harry Monk summed it up early in this thread. “By implication”
I am not advocating sticking to this rule I believe it is as barmy as Ed Milliband, but it is how the regulation is written, whether that is a huge mistake covered up, or a small mistake not yet noticed.
Yes because it relates to Article 8, section 7 immediately preceding Article 8 section 8
I sugested they be read together but Coffee said they are not, see post Nov 23rd 3:38 pm
Everything in Article 8 is related as it all deals with rest, different aspects of rest.
The choose bit simply means that if a driver chooses to take his rest in the vehicle instead of elsewhere then that is okay as long as it is one of the rest periods mentioned.
Thousands of people since April 2007, myself included, taking 45 hour rests in the cab isn’t confusion, it’s not knowing or ignoring.
Really the regs are very clear on this. Try this. On Sunday you go to a carvery for lunch and you have a choice of pork, lamb or beef. There is a sign on the wall saying, ‘If you chose to you may take the pork or lamb free of charge.’ That’s the only sign so can you take the beef and not pay? Now apply that to Article 8 (8), replacing the meats with the types of rest periods.
Wheel Nut:
I am not advocating sticking to this rule I believe it is as barmy as Ed Milliband, but it is how the regulation is written, whether that is a huge mistake covered up, or a small mistake not yet noticed.
was reading a forum something about fined 2385 euros and someone mentioned it’s illegal to spend your 45 weekly rest in your truck i didn’t know this and is it enforced? and someone mentioned leaving your digi card in well if your in a hotel and not the truck aren’t you supposed to keep it with you at all times maybe we should have one on a chain round our neck, drove with a car from austria to uk stopped in a hotel over night which looked ok on the outside as was late bout 9:30 ish thought ok breakfast room looked good too booked in, well the room if some boss had put me in that I would have gone back to the truck, i’ve had better nights kip in Hotel volvo by the side of a railway line
sankev13:
was reading a forum something about fined 2385 euros and someone mentioned it’s illegal to spend your 45 weekly rest in your truck i didn’t know this and is it enforced? and someone mentioned leaving your digi card in well if your in a hotel and not the truck aren’t you supposed to keep it with you at all times maybe we should have one on a chain round our neck, drove with a car from austria to uk stopped in a hotel over night which looked ok on the outside as was late bout 9:30 ish thought ok breakfast room looked good too booked in, well the room if some boss had put me in that I would have gone back to the truck, i’ve had better nights kip in Hotel volvo by the side of a railway line
You would have been better keeping the thread together, this has been discussed several times and everyone still spends 45 plus hours in a cab, what we were pointing out is what the legislation actually says or doesnt say, it may be an error, it may be intentional, but up until now, no one has noticed it. sssshhh!
Wheel Nut:
[…what we were pointing out is what the legislation actually says or doesnt say, it may be an error, it may be intentional, but up until now, no one has noticed it. sssshhh!
I have emails prepared in French, Spanish and Belgisch all ready to send. Just waiting until I know for sure I will never be going back to the mainland in a truck before sending them to the relevant authorities.
sankev13:
was reading a forum something about fined 2385 euros and someone mentioned it’s illegal to spend your 45 weekly rest in your truck i didn’t know this and is it enforced?
In the UK, VOSA take the view that the driver has had a nice long 45 rest using the cab which errs on the side of safety rather than push for a prosecution on a rather pedantic rule
It seems that other EU enforcement agencies do not agree with VOSA which is their right
ROG:
In the UK, VOSA take the view that the driver has had a nice long 45 rest using the cab which errs on the side of safety rather than push for a prosecution on a rather pedantic rule
It seems that other EU enforcement agencies do not agree with VOSA which is their right
Where do you get that from? There have been no reports on driver’s getting nicked for taking a 45+ weekly rest in the cab anywhere in the EU and thousands of driver’s do it every week in every member state.
sankev13:
was reading a forum something about fined 2385 euros and someone mentioned it’s illegal to spend your 45 weekly rest in your truck i didn’t know this and is it enforced?
In the UK, VOSA take the view that the driver has had a nice long 45 rest using the cab which errs on the side of safety rather than push for a prosecution on a rather pedantic rule
It seems that other EU enforcement agencies do not agree with VOSA which is their right
VOSA or any other enforcement agents do not have a view, in fact they have been remarkably quiet on the subject!
Having said that VOSA have no way of changing EC Legislation as it is written
i didn’t know this and is it enforced? and someone mentioned leaving your digi card in 
well if your in a hotel and not the truck aren’t you supposed to keep it with you at all times 
maybe we should have one on a chain round our neck, drove with a car from austria to uk stopped in a hotel over night which looked ok on the outside as was late bout 9:30 ish thought ok breakfast room looked good too booked in, well the room if some boss had put me in that I would have gone back to the truck, i’ve had better nights kip in Hotel volvo by the side of a railway line 
