Maybe I am being a tad harsh here, but nobody FORCES these lads to work for a pittance.
eagerbeaver:
Maybe I am being a tad harsh here, but nobody FORCES these lads to work for a pittance.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^
they arnt being forced…its only the fact that they are from impoverished countries with wages to match,and being used as prawns in the european road haulage game.
when we went to saudi and back,or around europe,then our wages were mostly as good as any,and 5 or 6 times better than some.
these dudes are being used as just slave labour with a bit of loophole wangling ignoring your cabotage requirments.
every flipflop co is jumping on the bandwagon and flooding western europe with them hence the issue.
Calm down Comrade Juddian! For Christ’s sake you pop a vein or something.
I don’t give a crap about Unionised forebears and how shafted you feel. The fact is that the working man in the UK has it better now than he has ever had it.
OK so pay hasn’t kept up with inflation recently. Thats not good but perhaps this thread is an indicator as to why, operators are having to cut margins to the bone to compete with new Europe’s triple standards of pay and conditions. But inflation since 2010 has totaled 11.7% and there has been a 42% increase in the tax personal allowance in that time. So while each individual pound may buy you less, you keep more of the pounds you earn. You have the right to paid leave, the right to pay when sick, the right to paid time off because your Mrs. has had a baby. You get free at the point of use medical care, unemployment hasn’t been this low since records began, despite losing all those lovely industries that you socialists hold dear like the mining and the car production, (which is still going strong anyway) and steel moving east etc. The government will contribute towards your pension, the government will guarantee your pension for that matter, even if your company and your pension firm both go bust, the government will pay for up to 30 hours of your kids playschool a week.
The vast majority of these rights have either been granted or extended in the past ten years without any role for your beloved Unions. Lets now look at where the unions have stepped in. Junior Doctors, ■■■■■■ off the public no end and still got stuck with the contract. All they managed to do was make noise, not change. Southern Rail, the RMT damned near brought the South to its knees, all over a claim that cameras were insufficient replacement for a bloke pushing a button, which meant that the bloke couldn’t be freed up to do the same number of hours, on the same rate of pay, on the same bloody train, helping the public. Public sector pay in general, unions have been ■■■■■■■■ and moaning for years but haven’t had any effect, they were ■■■■■■■■ because it was all they knew how to do. Progress has been made recently on public sector pay because the pay review boards have seen a worthy case and the government has followed advice, not because Unite forced the horrid Tories to back down.
So thank god there are only a handful of people who think like you. If there were more I shudder to think the damage your hair-brained, ill-informed attempts at economic policy and labour organisation could do to the country.
I think we can safely say that my button was pushed there!
Oh dieseldog: Pawns get used in a game, Prawns get used in a sandwich. Hate to be picky but I was giggling too much to take in what you were trying to say.
“Well it tasted like a prawn” is the punchline from one of my favouritist jokes ever! 
[
Oh dieseldog: Pawns get used in a game, Prawns get used in a sandwich. Hate to be picky but I was giggling too much to take in what you were trying to say.
[/quote]
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
obviously my friend,you ever watched “minder” and dont remember arthur with one of his many classic quotes.
i.e. the world is your lobster my son.
i only said it to see if anyone got it,or if it was another woooshhh.
Get the butler to fetch you a pink gin whilst the coolie fans you Lord Nsmith1180.
If you bothered to read my post or get half of the jist of it, you’d realise the intention is to help stop the EE’s and others being taken the ■■■■ out of by working hours days weeks in western countries by their owners taking advantage of lax legislation.
Level playing field and all that, such decent unionsation helps companies too to level that field, well it helps those who arn’t getting rich off the backs of people being taken advantage of.
By the way, i’m not shafted, i’m in a proper unionised job where we appreciate what we have and work accordingly, and the company continues to grow despite proper terms and conditions.
put it into perspective from the uk drivers saddle.
would you drive to saudi,and work internal for 3 month at a time for your average camel jockeys wage?
or head for 3 month in slovakia for 50 euro a week?..somehow i think not.
nsmith1180:
Calm down Comrade Juddian! For Christ’s sake you pop a vein or something.I don’t give a crap about Unionised forebears and how shafted you feel. The fact is that the working man in the UK has it better now than he has ever had it.
OK so pay hasn’t kept up with inflation recently.
UK pay, like many developed countries, has seen average workers pay stagnate in real terms for years, even decades in some cases, yet economies have grown, so where is this extra money going?
nsmith1180:
Thats not good but perhaps this thread is an indicator as to why, operators are having to cut margins to the bone to compete with new Europe’s triple standards of pay and conditions. But inflation since 2010 has totaled 11.7% and there has been a 42% increase in the tax personal allowance in that time. So while each individual pound may buy you less, you keep more of the pounds you earn.
When you take indirect and direct tax the average person is still paying the same in tax as in the 1970’s. Indirect tax take more out of the average persons pocket than the rich.
nsmith1180:
You have the right to paid leave, the right to pay when sick, the right to paid time off because your Mrs. has had a baby. You get free at the point of use medical care, unemployment hasn’t been this low since records began, despite losing all those lovely industries that you socialists hold dear like the mining and the car production, (which is still going strong anyway) and steel moving east etc. The government will contribute towards your pension, the government will guarantee your pension for that matter, even if your company and your pension firm both go bust, the government will pay for up to 30 hours of your kids playschool a week.
The vast majority of these rights have either been granted or extended in the past ten years without any role for your beloved Unions.
Many companies gave their workers 4 weeks annual leave plus bank holidays well back in the 70’s, due to negotiations between companies and unions, but with new employment practices in the new industries many workers found themselves without paid holidays. The EU introduced 20 days paid holiday, due to pressure from various organisation, not least lobbying from various national unions, however 20 days paid holidays was opposed by the by the UK government. The UK then introduced the 28 days holiday under a Labour government, because some companies were abiding by the letter of the law and not the spirit of the law and not adding the 8 bank holidays to the paid total.
And due to modern working practices many workers, who now work bank holidays don’t get extra rates or at least not the rates they used to get.
Free at the point medical care, is that not the NHS?
Unemployed hasn’t been this low since 1975, but most back then had proper terms of employment and weren’t on various dubious contracts. Most car plants are still heavily unionised, but the problems of old aren’t there and none of us want to go back there. The government has always contributed to the pension since we’ve had a state pension scheme, but there is now a problem that more people live well beyond retirement age, when the pension was first introduced most working men never made it to 65, so us and our companies are contributing to our pensions as well as paying tax and NI which is how we used to it.
And do you think governments introduce polices just for the sake of it?
It’s is normally done due to many years of lobbying by groups who want those policies, in many cases when it come to employment rights, those lobby groups will include unions.
Many of those improvements have been won by legal action taken by workers and normally with the backing of a union. Such as some of recent cases where workers have
challenged the “gig” economy, or where companies have tried to get out of their rights by changing the status of their workers.
nsmith1180:
Lets now look at where the unions have stepped in. Junior Doctors, ■■■■■■ off the public no end and still got stuck with the contract. All they managed to do was make noise, not change. Southern Rail, the RMT damned near brought the South to its knees, all over a claim that cameras were insufficient replacement for a bloke pushing a button, which meant that the bloke couldn’t be freed up to do the same number of hours, on the same rate of pay, on the same bloody train, helping the public.
So you give us 2 high profile cases to prove that all unions are unnecessary at best and counter productive, while ignoring the many less public cases where unions do achieve something for their members.
nsmith1180:
Public sector pay in general, unions have been ■■■■■■■■ and moaning for years but haven’t had any effect, they were ■■■■■■■■ because it was all they knew how to do. Progress has been made recently on public sector pay because the pay review boards have seen a worthy case and the government has followed advice, not because Unite forced the horrid Tories to back down.
Do you think the government would have introduced a pay review board if there had not been protests?
Theres some mixed posts on here, so my comments wont go amiss…The post started by using the word Flip - Flop this is because this poster has no experience other than the M25 and follows other ignorant people in using these words. Back in the old days…when we were away for weeks at a time, Bucknet Europa called us Booties, or shoesies…so i dont suspect theres much difference is there…but in this film, there were no beach wear…just trainers…and these were left on the step, so as not to soil the inside of the truck…something brit drivers fail to do as they like living in ■■■■ anyway.
The rates these drivers get are atrocious…BUT…its down to where they come from, and the economy in that country…yes i would like to see these drivers on uk wages…its just not possible is it…but on my company, they were paid 3 times their average, and home for 1 week every month…a small firm, but could afford to not be greedy with the profits, but pay those who make the profits…more richer…
When we traversed the highways and byways of europe, our money was ■■■■, back then, but we were a lot better off than our counterparts in the countries we visited…we cooked in the cab…out of the cab, buying groceries and veg along the way, as we couldnt afford to live the highlife every night… but we did what the EE are doing today up to a degree…they are doing the same job, they have to do the work they can find, and thats being away from home for months on end…dont blame the drivers as Harry said…Blame the system…and the likes of IKEA for paying stupid rates in the first place.
dieseldog999:
when they finish their 3 or 4 month shift…i wonder what they put on their manual entries for the lift back from belgium to slovakia?
or
possibly they would do what happens over here when you come off the boat and let the local guy tip and load you,which is nothing at all.
I worked for Sitra at Ypres, when it came to holidays and stand down periods, a mini bus would be provided for each country, the EE drivers would sort it out among themselves as to who was driving but cleverly the minibus is for hire and is no longer a company vehicle and removes and requirement for a manual entry or for the driver to be subject to drivers hours.
nsmith1180:
Calm down Comrade Juddian! For Christ’s sake you pop a vein or something.I don’t give a crap about Unionised forebears and how shafted you feel. The fact is that the working man in the UK has it better now than he has ever had it.
OK so pay hasn’t kept up with inflation recently. Thats not good but perhaps this thread is an indicator as to why, operators are having to cut margins to the bone to compete with new Europe’s triple standards of pay and conditions. But inflation since 2010 has totaled 11.7% and there has been a 42% increase in the tax personal allowance in that time. So while each individual pound may buy you less, you keep more of the pounds you earn. You have the right to paid leave, the right to pay when sick, the right to paid time off because your Mrs. has had a baby. You get free at the point of use medical care, unemployment hasn’t been this low since records began, despite losing all those lovely industries that you socialists hold dear like the mining and the car production, (which is still going strong anyway) and steel moving east etc. The government will contribute towards your pension, the government will guarantee your pension for that matter, even if your company and your pension firm both go bust, the government will pay for up to 30 hours of your kids playschool a week.
The vast majority of these rights have either been granted or extended in the past ten years without any role for your beloved Unions. Lets now look at where the unions have stepped in. Junior Doctors, ■■■■■■ off the public no end and still got stuck with the contract. All they managed to do was make noise, not change. Southern Rail, the RMT damned near brought the South to its knees, all over a claim that cameras were insufficient replacement for a bloke pushing a button, which meant that the bloke couldn’t be freed up to do the same number of hours, on the same rate of pay, on the same bloody train, helping the public. Public sector pay in general, unions have been ■■■■■■■■ and moaning for years but haven’t had any effect, they were ■■■■■■■■ because it was all they knew how to do. Progress has been made recently on public sector pay because the pay review boards have seen a worthy case and the government has followed advice, not because Unite forced the horrid Tories to back down.
So thank god there are only a handful of people who think like you. If there were more I shudder to think the damage your hair-brained, ill-informed attempts at economic policy and labour organisation could do to the country.
I think we can safely say that my button was pushed there!
Oh dieseldog: Pawns get used in a game, Prawns get used in a sandwich. Hate to be picky but I was giggling too much to take in what you were trying to say.
I am 100 and more % with Juddian here. It is so, so sad that younger members of the population have swallowed the bollox fed them by the politicians and those with interests vested in a servile workforce.The reason unemployment is lower than it has ever been is not because of any prosperity, it is because the individual is effectively forced to take whatever is offered. Quoting Harold McMillan’s ( Prime Minister before you were born) " You’ve never had it so good" to support the argument only shows how you, like he, have distanced yourself from the reality many face. Try telling that to those in work who depend upon food banks and ask yourself who is benefitting from their situation. We have allowed ourselves to tolerate a situation where the academically gifted can aspire to the professions and the much vaunted new high-tech careers, while leaving the less fortunate at the mercy of the accountants’ balance sheet.
As for destroying the Coal and Steel industries, that is criminal negligence at least. To leave an energy source trapped forever in the ground with no knowledge of when it may be needed and no hope of recovering it, and then to leave our country unable to produce the military hardware to defend itself, without importing the essential steel from abroad is nothing short of treason.
cav551:
nsmith1180:
Calm down Comrade Juddian! For Christ’s sake you pop a vein or something.I don’t give a crap about Unionised forebears and how shafted you feel. The fact is that the working man in the UK has it better now than he has ever had it.
OK so pay hasn’t kept up with inflation recently. Thats not good but perhaps this thread is an indicator as to why, operators are having to cut margins to the bone to compete with new Europe’s triple standards of pay and conditions. But inflation since 2010 has totaled 11.7% and there has been a 42% increase in the tax personal allowance in that time. So while each individual pound may buy you less, you keep more of the pounds you earn. You have the right to paid leave, the right to pay when sick, the right to paid time off because your Mrs. has had a baby. You get free at the point of use medical care, unemployment hasn’t been this low since records began, despite losing all those lovely industries that you socialists hold dear like the mining and the car production, (which is still going strong anyway) and steel moving east etc. The government will contribute towards your pension, the government will guarantee your pension for that matter, even if your company and your pension firm both go bust, the government will pay for up to 30 hours of your kids playschool a week.
The vast majority of these rights have either been granted or extended in the past ten years without any role for your beloved Unions. Lets now look at where the unions have stepped in. Junior Doctors, ■■■■■■ off the public no end and still got stuck with the contract. All they managed to do was make noise, not change. Southern Rail, the RMT damned near brought the South to its knees, all over a claim that cameras were insufficient replacement for a bloke pushing a button, which meant that the bloke couldn’t be freed up to do the same number of hours, on the same rate of pay, on the same bloody train, helping the public. Public sector pay in general, unions have been ■■■■■■■■ and moaning for years but haven’t had any effect, they were ■■■■■■■■ because it was all they knew how to do. Progress has been made recently on public sector pay because the pay review boards have seen a worthy case and the government has followed advice, not because Unite forced the horrid Tories to back down.
So thank god there are only a handful of people who think like you. If there were more I shudder to think the damage your hair-brained, ill-informed attempts at economic policy and labour organisation could do to the country.
I think we can safely say that my button was pushed there!
Oh dieseldog: Pawns get used in a game, Prawns get used in a sandwich. Hate to be picky but I was giggling too much to take in what you were trying to say.
I am 100 and more % with Juddian here. It is so, so sad that younger members of the population have swallowed the bollox fed them by the politicians and those with interests vested in a servile workforce.The reason unemployment is lower than it has ever been is not because of any prosperity, it is because the individual is effectively forced to take whatever is offered. Quoting Harold McMillan’s ( Prime Minister before you were born) " You’ve never had it so good" to support the argument only shows how you, like he, have distanced yourself from the reality many face. Try telling that to those in work who depend upon food banks and ask yourself who is benefitting from their situation. We have allowed ourselves to tolerate a situation where the academically gifted can aspire to the professions and the much vaunted new high-tech careers, while leaving the less fortunate at the mercy of the accountants’ balance sheet.
As for destroying the Coal and Steel industries, that is criminal negligence at least. To leave an energy source trapped forever in the ground with no knowledge of when it may be needed and no hope of recovering it, and then to leave our country unable to produce the military hardware to defend itself, without importing the essential steel from abroad is nothing short of treason.
Agree.
Don’t know how old Mr Smith is, but he’s definitely swallowed the propaganda spewed by past Governments,… or maybe it was the school history syllabus to blame.
robroy:
cav551:
nsmith1180:
Calm down Comrade Juddian! For Christ’s sake you pop a vein or something.I don’t give a crap about Unionised forebears and how shafted you feel. The fact is that the working man in the UK has it better now than he has ever had it.
OK so pay hasn’t kept up with inflation recently. Thats not good but perhaps this thread is an indicator as to why, operators are having to cut margins to the bone to compete with new Europe’s triple standards of pay and conditions. But inflation since 2010 has totaled 11.7% and there has been a 42% increase in the tax personal allowance in that time. So while each individual pound may buy you less, you keep more of the pounds you earn. You have the right to paid leave, the right to pay when sick, the right to paid time off because your Mrs. has had a baby. You get free at the point of use medical care, unemployment hasn’t been this low since records began, despite losing all those lovely industries that you socialists hold dear like the mining and the car production, (which is still going strong anyway) and steel moving east etc. The government will contribute towards your pension, the government will guarantee your pension for that matter, even if your company and your pension firm both go bust, the government will pay for up to 30 hours of your kids playschool a week.
The vast majority of these rights have either been granted or extended in the past ten years without any role for your beloved Unions. Lets now look at where the unions have stepped in. Junior Doctors, ■■■■■■ off the public no end and still got stuck with the contract. All they managed to do was make noise, not change. Southern Rail, the RMT damned near brought the South to its knees, all over a claim that cameras were insufficient replacement for a bloke pushing a button, which meant that the bloke couldn’t be freed up to do the same number of hours, on the same rate of pay, on the same bloody train, helping the public. Public sector pay in general, unions have been ■■■■■■■■ and moaning for years but haven’t had any effect, they were ■■■■■■■■ because it was all they knew how to do. Progress has been made recently on public sector pay because the pay review boards have seen a worthy case and the government has followed advice, not because Unite forced the horrid Tories to back down.
So thank god there are only a handful of people who think like you. If there were more I shudder to think the damage your hair-brained, ill-informed attempts at economic policy and labour organisation could do to the country.
I think we can safely say that my button was pushed there!
Oh dieseldog: Pawns get used in a game, Prawns get used in a sandwich. Hate to be picky but I was giggling too much to take in what you were trying to say.
I am 100 and more % with Juddian here. It is so, so sad that younger members of the population have swallowed the bollox fed them by the politicians and those with interests vested in a servile workforce.The reason unemployment is lower than it has ever been is not because of any prosperity, it is because the individual is effectively forced to take whatever is offered. Quoting Harold McMillan’s ( Prime Minister before you were born) " You’ve never had it so good" to support the argument only shows how you, like he, have distanced yourself from the reality many face. Try telling that to those in work who depend upon food banks and ask yourself who is benefitting from their situation. We have allowed ourselves to tolerate a situation where the academically gifted can aspire to the professions and the much vaunted new high-tech careers, while leaving the less fortunate at the mercy of the accountants’ balance sheet.
As for destroying the Coal and Steel industries, that is criminal negligence at least. To leave an energy source trapped forever in the ground with no knowledge of when it may be needed and no hope of recovering it, and then to leave our country unable to produce the military hardware to defend itself, without importing the essential steel from abroad is nothing short of treason.
Agree.
Don’t know how old Mr Smith is, but he’s definitely swallowed the propaganda spewed by past Governments,… or maybe it was the school history syllabus to blame.
truckyboy:
Theres some mixed posts on here, so my comments wont go amiss…The post started by using the wordFlip - Flopthis is because this poster has no experience other than the M25 and follows other ignorant people in using these words.^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
ignorance is bliss my man…simple as that.
i usually refer to them the same as most in northern ireland as “taliban” but back in 1980 when i was doing a few trips to saudi/jedda/ riyadh, before the rest of my days till present doing on and off uk/europe,then the taliban wernt really a normal day to day word as being originally from glasgow,the norm was to refer to anything non pink as gentlemen from pakistan as a blanket description.
flip flops is what most on here would recognise as a generalisation for the ee drivers of which i have no problem with whatsoever.
at least theyre doing the job.
the same ones that slag them off are the same ones that couldnt tie their bootlaces for doing the job abroad.
its the system thats playing them for mugs,not the drivers,but if you actually read previous posts then you would see that for yourself instead of launching into another episode similar to uncle alberts “during the war”
as for the rest of your post,then il leave that for others to tear to shreds as theres sometimes no fun in it when its too easy.
Large companies like the one in the video are here for one purpose and one purpose only - to make money . It dosen’t matter what their adverts say or what fancy slogans they have , they exist to make money - lots of it by any means possible . They will find loopholes in laws and exploit them as long as they can while pleading ignorance . Using sub contractors provides a nice easy disconnect berween them and the law.
It is wrong for a driver to be earning less than £200 a month when another driver doing the same work in the same country is earning over £2000 a month when the only difference is nationality. Is it any wonder many of them want to come here for a better life - if the shoe was on the other foot and Eastern Europe was paying between 6 - 10 times more than what we could earn here in the UK/ Western europe I’ll bet a fair few drivers on this forum would up sticks and go east looking work .
There are weeks away from home so why dont they just come to the uk get a job for 8.50 a hour and all there problems will be sloved, they could fly home every 6 weeks for a tenner and it would keep the hauliers happy
nightline:
There are weeks away from home so why dont they just come to the uk get a job for 8.50 a hour and all there problems will be sloved, they could fly home every 6 weeks for a tenner and it would keep the hauliers happy
its really not as simple as that. The UK isnt their only destination and believe it or not, not all EE’s would want to live in the UK anyway. A flat there alone would likely need a £1K deposit and maybe a months rent in advance, thats a few months wages to some of them for a start…
dieseldog999:
[Oh dieseldog: Pawns get used in a game, Prawns get used in a sandwich. Hate to be picky but I was giggling too much to take in what you were trying to say.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
obviously my friend,you ever watched “minder” and dont remember arthur with one of his many classic quotes.
i.e. the world is your lobster my son.
i only said it to see if anyone got it,or if it was another woooshhh.
[/quote]
Wrang spy min. It was Hilda Ogden who said "the world is your lobster "
AndrewG:
nightline:
There are weeks away from home so why dont they just come to the uk get a job for 8.50 a hour and all there problems will be sloved, they could fly home every 6 weeks for a tenner and it would keep the hauliers happy
You have missed the point, they will live in the truck here as they do now
Old John:
dieseldog999:
[Oh dieseldog: Pawns get used in a game, Prawns get used in a sandwich. Hate to be picky but I was giggling too much to take in what you were trying to say.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
obviously my friend,you ever watched “minder” and dont remember arthur with one of his many classic quotes.
i.e. the world is your lobster my son.
i only said it to see if anyone got it,or if it was another woooshhh.
Wrang spy min. It was Hilda Ogden who said "the world is your lobster "
[/quote]
From the mouth of the great man himself.
m.youtube.com/watch?v=BCn7Kp2M8Cc