puntabrava:
‘‘superior’’ I take it you have not owned one then? The reason British car manufacturers went down the pan was because the British car buyer did not want the product they made, supply and demand is the essence of business, no demand no business.
And your point is…comparing the prices of a car that has been restored with one that needs a full restoration?
‘Classic’ values tend to be driven by sentiment, rather than utility. A 1977 Norton Commando would probably fetch rather more than a Honda CB550 of similar vintage and condition if both were put up for sale today, but the Honda is still a ‘better’ bike by any rational measure.
In fact, a 1977 Honda CB400/4 will fetch far more than a 1977 Honda CB550 in today’s market, but the 550 is a better bike by most measures.
If you visit many 3rd world countries one of the stand-out features is the survival of old Merc saloon cars as taxis…I can’t see any Jag produced at any time in the history of the marque having a similar survival rate if worked even half as hard.
When they filmed Inspector Morse, the Jag that was Morse’s car had to be pushed or towed most of the time: even with the resources of the TV production company behind it, it could not be depended upon.
I agree about the basic engineering of BMW cars being surprisingly old-fashioned, but it was very well executed.
Interestingly, you could say the same about BMW ‘boxer’ motorbikes: an ancient and crude engine layout, but still a market-leader today.
Carryfast:
And still the sheep think it is better to vote LabLibdemCon instead of UKIP.While all the signs are that Germany would also be better off out of the EU than in bearing in mind the cabotage issue amongst others.
well I wouldn’t really point out cabotage as a major problem for germany, compared to the fact that in ten years time the average age of german population will be about 102 and I guess it will be better for them to be out of the Eu, better for the EU that is
It seems a bit of a coincidence as to how all of the advanced Anglo Saxon/Germanic nations and economies seem to be destined to die out because they supposedly aren’t procreating.Thereby providing the cheap labour agenda with an excuse to import loads of labour.
puntabrava:
‘‘superior’’ I take it you have not owned one then? The reason British car manufacturers went down the pan was because the British car buyer did not want the product they made, supply and demand is the essence of business, no demand no business.
And your point is…comparing the prices of a car that has been restored with one that needs a full restoration?
‘Classic’ values tend to be driven by sentiment, rather than utility. A 1977 Norton Commando would probably fetch rather more than a Honda CB550 of similar vintage and condition if both were put up for sale today, but the Honda is still a ‘better’ bike by any rational measure.
In fact, a 1977 Honda CB400/4 will fetch far more than a 1977 Honda CB550 in today’s market, but the 550 is a better bike by most measures.
If you visit many 3rd world countries one of the stand-out features is the survival of old Merc saloon cars as taxis…I can’t see any Jag produced at any time in the history of the marque having a similar survival rate if worked even half as hard.
When they filmed Inspector Morse, the Jag that was Morse’s car had to be pushed or towed most of the time: even with the resources of the TV production company behind it, it could not be depended upon.
I agree about the basic engineering of BMW cars being surprisingly old-fashioned, but it was very well executed.
Interestingly, you could say the same about BMW ‘boxer’ motorbikes: an ancient and crude engine layout, but still a market-leader today.
My point was who would actually prefer a BMW 1800 over a 3.8 Mk2 let alone 4.2 S type Jag or for that matter a 3.0 Si v Jag XJ6/12 then or now.Other than anyone who hasn’t got the slightest clue as to the engineering contained in the respective cars and the relative rip off price which the Germans managed to get away with so they could pay their workers more for making an inferior product.As for the Merc well built but rusted just like the BMW with the same steering and semi trailing rear suspension set up and poor value for money engine options,for an even more expensive price.IE the difference is a classic Jag is worth restoring.While the contemporary BMW’s and Mercs have mostly rusted away long ago and are now probably Chinese washing machines.
Bear in mind that in BL days the tax payer made a substantial contribution to every car built. I doubt anyone would have paid a commercial price for one.
Famously, when the Mini first launched, Ford pulled one apart and correctly calculated that each one was being built at a loss. Ford then decided to concentrate on medium/large cars for the next decade or so (think ■■■■■■, Cortina, Granada), and only came up with a ‘supermini’ (Fiesta) when the Mini design was long in the tooth and BL was open about replacing it with the ‘supermini’ Metro.
Surely you must have noticed the decline in the number of British drivers doing continental work over the last ten years or so, surely you must have noticed who now does that work, and surely you understand what cabotage is, and that the same will happen to domestic work when cabotage restrictions are removed, as is the eu’s eventual aim?
Surely you have heard about Waberer’s massive new terminal being built at Felixtowe? Why would Waberer’s build a terminal at Felixstowe unless they had an eye on taking overthe Felixstowe container traffic?
You go ahead and vote for a pro-eu party if you want, you are spoiled for choice. Personally I’ll be voting for an anti-eu party and for as long as there is only one anti-eu party, then there’s only one party likely to get this road haulier’s vote.
GasGas:
Bear in mind that in BL days the tax payer made a substantial contribution to every car built. I doubt anyone would have paid a commercial price for one.
Famously, when the Mini first launched, Ford pulled one apart and correctly calculated that each one was being built at a loss. Ford then decided to concentrate on medium/large cars for the next decade or so (think ■■■■■■, Cortina, Granada), and only came up with a ‘supermini’ (Fiesta) when the Mini design was long in the tooth and BL was open about replacing it with the ‘supermini’ Metro.
I think the relevant point in that case is why would anyone have wanted to buy a BMW E3 or 7 series when,with the exception of the cheap and nasty V6,the Granada was the better car.The engine issue being easily fixed by throwing a 302 V8 in it as in the case of the South African spec ones.
While no one is saying that the change in Austin/Morris thinking in going down market,from making cars like the Westminster,to the fwd zb and the Marina wasn’t one of the main mistakes that helped to bring the whole Leyland Group down.Together with a government that only wanted sufficient wage levels for the average worker to be able to afford to buy and run such zb instead of something decent made by Leyland’s ‘premium’ division brands.
SUPERCUBE:
UKIP one policy, immigration, what else they got?
UKIP isn’t just about immigration, it’s about eu membership in general. You may have read that we now have Russian bombers regularly flying in formation on the edge of UK airspace, probing our air defences and dropping us a hint, which we don’t seem to be taking.
Russia has become increasingly nervous about the eu’s expansion into former Warsaw pact countries, last year Ukraine’s president, Viktor Yukanovich was deposed by factions financially supported by the eu and the USA. If the eu gains control of Ukraine, as is its eventual aim, then Russia will face losing access to the Black Sea ports, its major avenue for imports and exports.
If you want to vote for a pro-eu party, then that’s your democratic right and you have three to choose from. Go ahead, it’s your funeral. Literally.
Carryfast:
It seems a bit of a coincidence as to how all of the advanced Anglo Saxon/Germanic nations and economies seem to be destined to die out because they supposedly aren’t procreating.Thereby providing the cheap labour agenda with an excuse to import loads of labour.
it might be the source of an exciting new conspiracy theory for you, but a sad looming reality for germany.
or was the wall torn down after kohl saw that it’s too late to urge germans to procreate so an influx of foreign labour was desperately neede in 20 years time? no, it was the illuminati in cahoots with the antled aliens after all…
Carryfast:
It seems a bit of a coincidence as to how all of the advanced Anglo Saxon/Germanic nations and economies seem to be destined to die out because they supposedly aren’t procreating.Thereby providing the cheap labour agenda with an excuse to import loads of labour.
it might be the source of an exciting new conspiracy theory for you, but a sad looming reality for germany.
or was the wall torn down after kohl saw that it’s too late to urge germans to procreate so an influx of foreign labour was desperately neede in 20 years time? no, it was the illuminati in cahoots with the antled aliens after all…
No it was the same lot who say that we also had/have to flood the country with immigration since1946 because the indigenous population wouldn’t be able to replace itself.No surprise that the immigration in question is all based on that from less developed parts of the world with lower wage and living standards expectations.
raymundo:
Carryfast, you know as much about BMWs as I do about friggin brain surgery man. Stop reading so many comics ffs !
You mean that I should have kept my 3.0 Si instead of trading it for a 1980’s Leyland built XJ12 ( which I still drive ),because the BM actually has wishbone suspension all round,rack and pinion steering and a V12 engine.While the McPherson front suspension,steering box and semi trailing arm rear suspension, small 3.0 6 cylinder,and loads of rust then let alone what it would have been like now,were all just in my imagination.
Carryfast:
And still the sheep think it is better to vote LabLibdemCon instead of UKIP.While all the signs are that Germany would also be better off out of the EU than in bearing in mind the cabotage issue amongst others.
well I wouldn’t really point out cabotage as a major problem for germany, compared to the fact that in ten years time the average age of german population will be about 102 and I guess it will be better for them to be out of the Eu, better for the EU that is
It is, the BAG will even tell you themselves it is, and that they struggle to control/enforce it. In germany/austria over 60% of the long distance drivers are all eastern europeans driving for eastern european companys. If they get rid of the Cabotage rule altogether then it can only get worse for the western based companys. Or is that why there all starting to register in poland and bulgaria, e.g Koops.
SUPERCUBE:
UKIP one policy, immigration, what else they got?
UKIP isn’t just about immigration, it’s about eu membership in general. You may have read that we now have Russian bombers regularly flying in formation on the edge of UK airspace, probing our air defences and dropping us a hint, which we don’t seem to be taking.
Russia has become increasingly nervous about the eu’s expansion into former Warsaw pact countries, last year Ukraine’s president, Viktor Yukanovich was deposed by factions financially supported by the eu and the USA. If the eu gains control of Ukraine, as is its eventual aim, then Russia will face losing access to the Black Sea ports, its major avenue for imports and exports.
If you want to vote for a pro-eu party, then that’s your democratic right and you have three to choose from. Go ahead, it’s your funeral. Literally.
when I was in the Raf this was common place we tracked all Russian planes in UK airspace and spent time and effort sending tornados up to id them and return them to their own airspace.
then we all made friends and it stopped think this will come back in force very soon if it hasn’t already.
SUPERCUBE:
UKIP one policy, immigration, what else they got?
UKIP isn’t just about immigration, it’s about eu membership in general. You may have read that we now have Russian bombers regularly flying in formation on the edge of UK airspace, probing our air defences and dropping us a hint, which we don’t seem to be taking.
Russia has become increasingly nervous about the eu’s expansion into former Warsaw pact countries, last year Ukraine’s president, Viktor Yukanovich was deposed by factions financially supported by the eu and the USA. If the eu gains control of Ukraine, as is its eventual aim, then Russia will face losing access to the Black Sea ports, its major avenue for imports and exports.
If you want to vote for a pro-eu party, then that’s your democratic right and you have three to choose from. Go ahead, it’s your funeral. Literally.
when I was in the Raf this was common place we tracked all Russian planes in UK airspace and spent time and effort sending tornados up to id them and return them to their own airspace.
then we all made friends and it stopped think this will come back in force very soon if it hasn’t already.
The fact is everyone knew that if push ever came to shove in that regard at best it would have been a case of an unstoppable Russian invasion or at worse mutually assured destruction.While bearing in mind that it takes a lot more nukes to take out a landmass the size of Russia than UK.Which is why no one ever argued about where the line between Russia’s sphere of influence in eastern Europe and ours in western Europe was drawn.Until now in which it is us who is making all the wrong offensive moves.To the point where we are trying to expand the EU and NATO into Russia’s back yard.As Harry rightly says go ahead if you feel lucky.Or vote UKIP whose foreign policy has already been made clear in that regard.
No surprise that the BBC has now ‘for some reason’ blocked this old film so we have to go to the so called bastion of media control and propaganda to find it.
This thread is wondering around like a drunk giraffe.
It all seems to be running along the on topic lines of an un representative/realistic level of east Euro transport operations being carried out in western Europe.Which then obviously leads on to the pro v anti EU membership and the implications of eastward EU expansion,discussion.
I take it you have not owned one then? The reason British car manufacturers went down the pan was because the British car buyer did not want the product they made, supply and demand is the essence of business, no demand no business.
