Coffeeholic:
Neither of us is wrong, neither of us is right it just you say tomato and I say tomato. ■■■■ that doesn’t work written down.
no it does not 
Mr.Shep:
Exactly how i see it. Who wants to work 16 hours anyway!
Not me mate. i’ll just stick to 20 hours a day.
Coffeeholic:
tofer:
…and would say I had done a 15 hour shift.Indeed, as does just about every one who works.
Except Del 
delboytwo:
why would you co as Neil as said in is posts he gets paid for the rest in a split rest day and count it as work{/quote]
Once again Del, where did I say I count it as work? I count it as being at work but I don’t count it as work. I don’t count breaks as work but I am at work when I take them. If I used POA I wouldn’t count that as work either but I would be at work when I was on POA.delboytwo:
in fact he as only done 10 hours duty cos he takes a 4 hour rest
No, I’ve done 14 hours duty made up of 7.5 hours of work (driving and other work), 2.5 hours of break and 4 hours rest. I know I have because it says so on my tacho analysis reports.
coming away from how you get paid and how many hour you book on you time sheet
how many hours in a 24 hour period are rest if you take a split rest and how many hours are left in that 24 hour period for driving other work POA and brake
Coffeeholic:
delboytwo:
why would you co as Neil as said in is posts he gets paid for the rest in a split rest day and count it as work{/quote]
Once again Del, where did I say I count it as work? I count it as being at work but I don’t count it as work. I don’t count breaks as work but I am at work when I take them. If I used POA I wouldn’t count that as work either but I would be at work when I was on POA.delboytwo:
in fact he as only done 10 hours duty cos he takes a 4 hour restNo, I’ve done 14 hours duty made up of 7.5 hours of work (driving and other work), 2.5 hours of break and 4 hours rest. I know I have because it says so on my tacho analysis reports.
so your report said that you have done 14 hours duty but how much daliy rest in the 24 hour period did it show did it show 11 hours rest or 14 hours
cos in my thinking you report does not count the rest as a split cos you can have a 9 hour reduced rest if you have them available
everone call a shift a shift a day duty a days duty when you start work and then go home you have done a days work yes would agree
it not what i am trying to get across ai am simply stating that under the EU reg a 24 hour period or shift or duty is only defined by work drive POA and brake not rest, rest is rest 12 hours rest if you take a split rest
if you book 15 hours fine if you book 12 hour fine
in the fact that if you are in ia truck and have a night out and you than put it on rest and take 11 hour rest and you firm payes you for book hours you could in fact put down that you were at work for 24 hours and book 24 hour
but in fact you duty would only be 15 or 13 or 12
delboytwo:
tachograph:
delboytwo:
ask you this if you book 15 hours work for WTD but in that day you did a split rest under EU regs how many hours are left in the 24 hour period for duty, work, or what ever you what to call itBy “15 hours work” I assume you mean 15 hours duty time in which case you couldn’t have a split daily rest as it only leaves 9 hours for a reduced daily rest
On the other hand if you had a split daily rest which would mean you’d done no more than 12 hours duty time, why would you book 15 hours working time for the WTD
Well done mate
why would you co as Neil as said in is posts he gets paid for the rest in a split rest day and count it as work rest and books 14 hour but in that 14 hours he as had a split rest but in fact he as only done 10 hours duty cos he takes a 4 hour rest
Del, Neil hasn’t said he counts the 3 hour part of a split daily rest as working time, he considers it to be part of the shift as he would get paid for it, and as I said before many people would refer to the “shift” as the time from the start to the end of the working day.
I would dispute that for the drivers hours and tachograph regulations duty time can include rest time though, surely if you’re on duty this implies that you’re at the disposal of the employer which would mean that you can’t dispose of the time freely and therefore not be on rest.
tachograph:
delboytwo:
tachograph:
delboytwo:
ask you this if you book 15 hours work for WTD but in that day you did a split rest under EU regs how many hours are left in the 24 hour period for duty, work, or what ever you what to call itBy “15 hours work” I assume you mean 15 hours duty time in which case you couldn’t have a split daily rest as it only leaves 9 hours for a reduced daily rest
On the other hand if you had a split daily rest which would mean you’d done no more than 12 hours duty time, why would you book 15 hours working time for the WTD
Well done mate
why would you co as Neil as said in is posts he gets paid for the rest in a split rest day and count it as work rest and books 14 hour but in that 14 hours he as had a split rest but in fact he as only done 10 hours duty cos he takes a 4 hour rest
Del, Neil hasn’t said he counts the 3 hour part of a split daily rest as working time, he considers it to be part of the shift as he would get paid for it, and as I said before many people would refer to the “shift” as the time from the start to the end of the working day.
I would dispute that for the drivers hours and tachograph regulations duty time can include rest time though, surely if you’re on duty this implies that you’re at the disposal of the employer which would mean that you can’t dispose of the time freely and therefore not be on rest.
hi mate Neil said this in one of is posts
coffeeholic wrote
I am taking a split rest and not an interrupted one, mainly due to the fact the period between disembarking and beginning the second part of my split daily rest is more than 1 hour so it can’t qualify as an interrupted rest, coming back from Dublin the gap is about 7 hours in fact.
delboytwo:
hi mate Neil said this in one of is postscoffeeholic wrote
I am taking a split rest and not an interrupted one, mainly due to the fact the period between disembarking and beginning the second part of my split daily rest is more than 1 hour so it can’t qualify as an interrupted rest, coming back from Dublin the gap is about 7 hours in fact.
Sorry mate but I’m missing the relevance of that quote 
delboytwo:
i get what you mean about clocking on and off but isn’t that what you are doing you are in fact clocking off work for 3 hours and then you re clock on to start again
But your not clocking off as your leaving your Tacho in because your shift has not finished yet, you know full well that when the 3 hrs is up you will be recommencing work.
Lets forget about Ferrys and trains and look at Containers, you arrive at the customers and you sit in the cab or lie on the bunk for 3 hrs whilst it is tipped, do you not count that 3 hrs as part of your shift because you were asleep? your tacho was switched to break, you aint done any work, you’ve had a kip, a few cuppas etc etc etc
Ohhh what about delivering to an RDC? Youve sat waiting to get onto a bay and had a kip on the bunk for 3 hrs do you exclude that 3 hrs from your shift total ?
tachograph:
delboytwo:
hi mate Neil said this in one of is postscoffeeholic wrote
I am taking a split rest and not an interrupted one, mainly due to the fact the period between disembarking and beginning the second part of my split daily rest is more than 1 hour so it can’t qualify as an interrupted rest, coming back from Dublin the gap is about 7 hours in fact.Sorry mate but I’m missing the relevance of that quote
you said
Del, Neil hasn’t said he counts the 3 hour part of a split daily rest
delboytwo:
coming away from how you get paid and how many hour you book on you time sheethow many hours in a 24 hour period are rest if you take a split rest and how many hours are left in that 24 hour period for driving other work POA and brake
How longs a piece of string?
It would depend how long the two periods are. They only have to be at least 3 hours followed by at least 9 hours but that is only the minimum. In my case it is usually about 4 hours and 10 hours giving a total of 14. Theoretically it could be even longer, although once the longer part reaches 11 hours then there is little or no point claiming the split rest.
delboytwo:
so your report said that you have done 14 hours duty but how much daliy rest in the 24 hour period did it show did it show 11 hours rest or 14 hours
14 hours.
delboytwo:
cos in my thinking you report does not count the rest as a split cos you can have a 9 hour reduced rest if you have them available
Oh it counts them as split daily rests and I know this for two reasons.
1, I do this 6 times between my weekly rest periods and if it was counting them as reduced daily rest periods then I would get three infringements, but I don’t.
2, it says Split Daily Rest on the report.
Coffeeholic:
delboytwo:
so your report said that you have done 14 hours duty but how much daliy rest in the 24 hour period did it show did it show 11 hours rest or 14 hours14 hours.
delboytwo:
cos in my thinking you report does not count the rest as a split cos you can have a 9 hour reduced rest if you have them availableOh it counts them as split daily rests and I know this for two reasons.
1, I do this 6 times between my weekly rest periods and if it was counting them as reduced daily rest periods then I would get three infringements, but I don’t.
2, it says Split Daily Rest on the report.
so it a split rest on your report good that ok you are fine
so there for you rest was at that time 14 hours and therefore not work or duty or part of your shift it was in fact rest
what you book as duty for your pay roll is how your firm works
ask you this if your firm did not pay for rests would you work them and would you still take a split rest on the ferry
and also as you do a lot of traveling for your firm its probably better for you to take a split rest for you to be able to complete you duties cos if you did not get payed for rests you would not put it on rest you would probably put it on POA
tachograph:
Del, Neil hasn’t said he counts the 3 hour part of a split daily rest as working time, he considers it to be part of the shift as he would get paid for it,
Not quite, I consider it part of the shift because it falls within the time between when I start work after a rest period and when I knock off for the day. I would also consider it part of the shift if I didn’t get paid for it, mind you I wouldn’t be doing it if I didn’t get paid for it.
tachograph:
I would dispute that for the drivers hours and tachograph regulations duty time can include rest time though, surely if you’re on duty this implies that you’re at the disposal of the employer which would mean that you can’t dispose of the time freely and therefore not be on rest.
Well the regulations allow for a period between the time from the start to the end of the working day (duty time/shift) to be counted toward a daily rest and the majority of drivers who use split rest will not be going home during that period. I would suggest split rest is mainly used by container drivers and drivers using ferries, or some of the longer train journeys in Europe, and whether you are on a loading bay, in a railway carriage or crossing the Irish Sea it is permitted to count that time as rest even though it is within your working day.
delboytwo:
so it a split rest on your report good that ok you are fineso there for you rest was at that time 14 hours and therefore not work or duty or part of your shift it was in fact rest
Of which 4 hours was part of the shift and 10 hours wasn’t.
delboytwo:
ask you this if your firm did not pay for rests would you work them and would you still take a split rest on the ferry
I would not be working for them if they were going to knock 4 hours pay out of the middle of my shift regardless of whether those 4 hours where spent on a ferry or a loading bay.
delboytwo:
and also as you do a lot of traveling for your firm its probably better for you to take a split rest for you to be able to complete you duties
I said that many posts ago, I cannot legally do that weeks rota without split rests.
delboytwo:
cos if you did not get payed for rests you would not put it on rest you would probably put it on POA
I wouldn’t, I simply wouldn’t do the run. POA is no good to me in being able to do 3 Dublin runs in one week.
Question for you now Del
It’s Friday, you started work on Monday and you have used all your allowed reduced daily rest periods.
You start work at 06:00 and work until 12:00
You take 3 hours rest while you are stuck on a loading bay while other people tip your truck.
You work until 21:00
You resume work at 06:00 Saturday
You have an analogue tacho unit and your boss requires you to mark EDR & SDR lines on the charts.
Where do you mark the Start Daily Rest line on Fridays chart, 12:00 or 21:00?
Coffeeholic:
delboytwo:
so it a split rest on your report good that ok you are fineso there for you rest was at that time 14 hours and therefore not work or duty or part of your shift it was in fact rest
Of which 4 hours was part of the shift and 10 hours wasn’t.
delboytwo:
ask you this if your firm did not pay for rests would you work them and would you still take a split rest on the ferryI would not be working for them if they were going to knock 4 hours pay out of the middle of my shift regardless of whether those 4 hours where spent on a ferry or a loading bay.
delboytwo:
and also as you do a lot of traveling for your firm its probably better for you to take a split rest for you to be able to complete you dutiesI said that many posts ago, I cannot legally do that weeks rota without split rests.
delboytwo:
cos if you did not get payed for rests you would not put it on rest you would probably put it on POAI wouldn’t, I simply wouldn’t do the run. POA is no good to me in being able to do 3 Dublin runs in one week.
Question for you now Del
It’s Friday, you started work on Monday and you have used all your allowed reduced daily rest periods.
You start work at 06:00 and work until 12:00
You take 3 hours rest while you are stuck on a loading bay while other people tip your truck.
You work until 21:00
You resume work at 06:00 Saturday
You have an analogue tacho unit and your boss requires you to mark EDR & SDR lines on the charts.
Where do you mark the Start Daily Rest line on Fridays chart, 12:00 or 21:00?
for my point of view i would not count the 3 hour rest, as rest i would count it as a brake and therefore finish my duties at 6 pm
and would put sdr at 6pm
my mate does containers and as for 3 years and never done a split rest when hes on a bay for 3 hour or more its a brake to him and prefers to use the other rest options i have told him of this and he gets a salary so there no point but he did say that if he was payed by the hour and rest were part of that then he would use it
delboytwo:
for my point of view i would not count the 3 hour rest, as rest i would count it as a brake and therefore finish my duties at 6 pm
Cop out. Counting it as rest could be the difference in getting home or having to have a night out, but each to their own.
You won’t do it but where would you advise another driver who is taking a split rest to mark SDR?
how you T&C in your work are laid out is fine ok except that but not taking about pay, taking about duty time, you have in a 24 hour period if you have a split rest is only 12 hour duty
technically yes, but so what? It’s not relevant for calculating the hours he gets paid, nor is relevant for calculating the overall duty time which is the time from original start to final end of the shift.
By the way, you use your brakes to stop to take a break. 