Ex Deben trailers fleet trailers **reward**

Own Account Driver:

chester1:

green456:
they are probably in subbies yards, who wont have been paid for work done. Said subbies will have been renting them from debens, they will not know who owns them but will think if debens owned them then they can hold them under what is known as a general lien

You cant put a lien on anything from a firm in insolvency especialy if they don’t own that asset. 400k for 12 trailers they where skellys not fridges, last one I brought new was a denison at 15k

Theory and reality depart though. Say I had a trailer and whilst I had it the company went bust and the administrators know where it is. What happens is you get a series of huff and puff letters from administrators and then their solicitors. You just stonewall all these letters and never acknowledge if it is with you, or not.

That’s not putting a lien on that’s just keeping a trailer . putting a lien involves letting them know you are holding goods until the debt is paid. As it goes as its a hired trailer and not an asset owned by the failed firm and by getting it returned has no monitary value to the creditors the adminstrators wont spend much time on looking for it hence why hireco are looking for them themselves

£150 reward for a 2006 Skellie, you may as well buy a new one :laughing: J/K

I dont get where the 20k price is coming from, for a skellie (2006-2009 which most of these are) you would be looking at about £5000-10000. I would post some actual results, but they are all POA

£3500 for a 2001 slider - walkermovements.co.uk/spec_s … itID=11117

Who do you think you are, MI5 with wheels? Moaning about finders fee being too low recovering of assets. Ha ha ha ha. What a joke. Cracks me up. Typical jumped up lorry driver talk. So you’re all MI5 operatives waiting to be activated with your extensive skills for the client and consider the money insulting of your value? What a load of ■■■■.

Recovery of assets fees are paid to proper firms who go looking for and deal with all the hassle of recovering equipment from insolvent businesses, not a fat arsed lorry driver who spots a stolen trailer and rings a phone number to turn 150 quid, if he can be arsed whilst showing down on his KFC in the cab. If you don’t agree with the princile of recovering essentially stolen assets then screw off I guess but don’t attempt to make out the money is too low given you’re hardly offering much in the way of service other than picking up a phone. If the owner chooses to put the money up you may look harder but that’s their choice. No one is forcing you

Own Account Driver:
Sorry but the OP is try to use the forum for asset recovery on the cheap.

These trailers most definitely are not stolen, in the criminal sense of the law. The OP’s firm may well technically have title of them but, as already mentioned, they are effectively held against unpaid debts.

If someone asks me to store, repair or do some other work on a vehicle, or trailer, and they then don’t pay for, as far as I’m concerned, any reason that vehicle will stay in my yard until the debt is settled and I’m not going out of my way to track down who has title in thing, if this means I end up out of pocket.

They can’t even run their business competently enough to know where their assets are so why are they more entitled than me to not end up out of pocket?

That’s rubbish. If you buy a stolen car then the law has the power to seize the car from you and return it to the owner. The recovery of money from the person who sold it to you is your problem. You can’t hold assets in lieu of payment just because you feel the customer which owed you money was in custody of the assets just because he provided them to you. The rightful legal owner can have them legally swiped from you. Think chep and pallets. Your recovery of your money with the middle man is your problem.

Think of it this way, I rent out a car to someone. He takes it in for a clean at a car cleaning place, doesn’t pay. So the cleaners hold the car. I own the car and owe the cleaners nothing. They have no legal right to hold my vehicle. Their legal beef is with the middle man and his assets. The trailers aren’t assets of Deben to be held in lieu. They won’t appear on Deben’s asset list and they have no legal papers to prove ownership.

James the cat:

Own Account Driver:
Sorry but the OP is try to use the forum for asset recovery on the cheap.

These trailers most definitely are not stolen, in the criminal sense of the law. The OP’s firm may well technically have title of them but, as already mentioned, they are effectively held against unpaid debts.

If someone asks me to store, repair or do some other work on a vehicle, or trailer, and they then don’t pay for, as far as I’m concerned, any reason that vehicle will stay in my yard until the debt is settled and I’m not going out of my way to track down who has title in thing, if this means I end up out of pocket.

They can’t even run their business competently enough to know where their assets are so why are they more entitled than me to not end up out of pocket?

That’s rubbish. If you buy a stolen car then the law has the power to seize the car from you and return it to the owner. The recovery of money from the person who sold it to you is your problem. You can’t hold assets in lieu of payment just because you feel the customer which owed you money was in custody of the assets just because he provided them to you. The rightful legal owner can have them legally swiped from you. Think chep and pallets. Your recovery of your money with the middle man is your problem.

Think of it this way, I rent out a car to someone. He takes it in for a clean at a car cleaning place, doesn’t pay. So the cleaners hold the car. I own the car and owe the cleaners nothing. They have no legal right to hold my vehicle. Their legal beef is with the middle man and his assets. The trailers aren’t assets of Deben to be held in lieu. They won’t appear on Deben’s asset list and they have no legal papers to prove ownership.

Yes, and there’s legal remedy to that but it’s not theft.

If your mate brought your vehicle to me and we did work on it or stored it, as I said previously, it would not leave my premises until payment was made for what was owed regardless, if he had your permission, or not, he’d have had the keys so presumably he had not forcibly stolen it.

If you didn’t want to pay the bill you would have to, pay legal costs, and come back with a court order and then you would get the vehicle back, minus any new parts fitted, and any bits we stripped off in a polythene bag in the boot. If you weren’t happy the vehicle was not back in working order you would then have to sue me for that. Assuming you had any sort of win on that, the court would probably just order I put some parts of similar vintage to the ones I took off - which I would still have, in reality, as would have lied I disposed of them. The whole sum cost of this process will have been zero to me.

So in summary it always makes sense to hold on to assets, not criminally stolen and a civil matter, unless forced to do otherwise only by court order and don’t go out of your way to assist anyone.

The hire co and the subbies who’ve presumably got the trailers, are just both unsecured creditors, one lot’s owed a trailer the other some money. I’ve no interest in assisting one side over the other.

Wow, haven’t the Members off Trucknet covered themselves in glory, Man makes A reasonable offer to any one whom might happen to see, or know where some off his skellies are, that if send him that info, and he gets his trailer back, he’d chuck £150 your way. Seems fair to Me, and I will be keeping My eyes open as I work from Felixstowe :wink:

As for debens and the sub hiring off Hireco’s skellies, I’m pretty sure that Hireco knew this was going on, as when I was on contract to Allport, our company(not debens) had to hire these skellies through Debens, and would often go to workshop facilities on behalf off Debens/Hireco for repairs or servicing :wink:

dan dare:
Was Redburn Transfer part of Deben ?.
If so are they still going ?

They are still operating, not sure what the tye up was, but seen them in Felixstowe with skellies even this week :wink:

Own Account Driver:

James the cat:

Own Account Driver:
Sorry but the OP is try to use the forum for asset recovery on the cheap.

These trailers most definitely are not stolen, in the criminal sense of the law. The OP’s firm may well technically have title of them but, as already mentioned, they are effectively held against unpaid debts.

If someone asks me to store, repair or do some other work on a vehicle, or trailer, and they then don’t pay for, as far as I’m concerned, any reason that vehicle will stay in my yard until the debt is settled and I’m not going out of my way to track down who has title in thing, if this means I end up out of pocket.

They can’t even run their business competently enough to know where their assets are so why are they more entitled than me to not end up out of pocket?

That’s rubbish. If you buy a stolen car then the law has the power to seize the car from you and return it to the owner. The recovery of money from the person who sold it to you is your problem. You can’t hold assets in lieu of payment just because you feel the customer which owed you money was in custody of the assets just because he provided them to you. The rightful legal owner can have them legally swiped from you. Think chep and pallets. Your recovery of your money with the middle man is your problem.

Think of it this way, I rent out a car to someone. He takes it in for a clean at a car cleaning place, doesn’t pay. So the cleaners hold the car. I own the car and owe the cleaners nothing. They have no legal right to hold my vehicle. Their legal beef is with the middle man and his assets. The trailers aren’t assets of Deben to be held in lieu. They won’t appear on Deben’s asset list and they have no legal papers to prove ownership.

Yes, and there’s legal remedy to that but it’s not theft.

If your mate brought your vehicle to me and we did work on it or stored it, as I said previously, it would not leave my premises until payment was made for what was owed regardless, if he had your permission, or not, he’d have had the keys so presumably he had not forcibly stolen it.

If you didn’t want to pay the bill you would have to, pay legal costs, and come back with a court order and then you would get the vehicle back, minus any new parts fitted, and any bits we stripped off in a polythene bag in the boot. If you weren’t happy the vehicle was not back in working order you would then have to sue me for that. Assuming you had any sort of win on that, the court would probably just order I put some parts of similar vintage to the ones I took off - which I would still have, in reality, as would have lied I disposed of them. The whole sum cost of this process will have been zero to me.

So in summary it always makes sense to hold on to assets, not criminally stolen and a civil matter, unless forced to do otherwise only by court order and don’t go out of your way to assist anyone.

The hire co and the subbies who’ve presumably got the trailers, are just both unsecured creditors, one lot’s owed a trailer the other some money. I’ve no interest in assisting one side over the other.

I’m not sure a bigger load of ■■■■■ has ever been posted on the internet, hopefully you don’t ever act on such nonsense.

Own Account Driver:
So in summary it always makes sense to hold on to assets, not criminally stolen and a civil matter, unless forced to do otherwise only by court order and don’t go out of your way to assist anyone.

The hire co and the subbies who’ve presumably got the trailers, are just both unsecured creditors, one lot’s owed a trailer the other some money. I’ve no interest in assisting one side over the other.

I’m not going to profess to know the law with regards to title off ownership, asset accountability, the position off the official receivers (as I believe the people who wind up companies are called) with regard to the return property not under the ownership off the insolvent party, in this case hired equipment. But it seems strange to Me that you suggest that it is legal for a 3rd party, that being another creditor, but not the owner off the hired equipment to withhold the return off the said property, to the legal owner. Or for that matter that the official receiver would have the legal right to withhold the return off hired equipment to its rightful owner. I would understand, that if a creditor had equipment owned by a company which had gone bust, that the creditor might use that equipment to reduce his loses from the insolvent party.

Sometimes the legal rights just don’t make sense.

As for your scenario with work carried out on a Vehicle, not under the instruction off the owner but a 3rd party, then would not your issue be with the 3rd party, and not the owner. If you refused to return the Vehicle to its owner or returned it incomplete, I’d have thought that the Owner would have an open and shut case for damages, that would probably be more costly than just returning the vehicle complete and arguing about it later :wink:

I’m not trying to be clever, I’m just a bit surprised at the inference in your post :open_mouth:

eddie snax:
Wow, haven’t the Members off Trucknet covered themselves in glory, Man makes A reasonable offer to any one whom might happen to see, or know where some off his skellies are, that if send him that info, and he gets his trailer back, he’d chuck £150 your way. Seems fair to Me, and I will be keeping My eyes open as I work from Felixstowe :wink:

As for debens and the sub hiring off Hireco’s skellies, I’m pretty sure that Hireco knew this was going on, as when I was on contract to Allport, our company(not debens) had to hire these skellies through Debens, and would often go to workshop facilities on behalf off Debens/Hireco for repairs or servicing :wink:

dan dare:
Was Redburn Transfer part of Deben ?.
If so are they still going ?

They are still operating, not sure what the tye up was, but seen them in Felixstowe with skellies even this week :wink:

can the first member to get the £150 please post on here? as I cant see anyone getting paid. its unfortunate for the OP and I have been stung and seen my folks stung by cowboys who go to the wall (some of whom are remembered fondly on the old time threads!) its ■■■■ but also happens all too much. no doubt when debens and sons Bristol ltd restarts in a week or so all sorts of hire companies will be falling over themselves to win the account.

so back to my point - you call in and say seen your trailer in Felixstowe, they go oh ok thanks - trailer gets recovered you don’t know as moved away you then rely on them to pay ‘reward’.

I cant see it myself sorry and for those who think my attitude is ■■■■ I have never stole etc. if I find a phone in a bar I will hand it in etc.

war1974:

eddie snax:
Wow, haven’t the Members off Trucknet covered themselves in glory, Man makes A reasonable offer to any one whom might happen to see, or know where some off his skellies are, that if send him that info, and he gets his trailer back, he’d chuck £150 your way. Seems fair to Me, and I will be keeping My eyes open as I work from Felixstowe :wink:

As for debens and the sub hiring off Hireco’s skellies, I’m pretty sure that Hireco knew this was going on, as when I was on contract to Allport, our company(not debens) had to hire these skellies through Debens, and would often go to workshop facilities on behalf off Debens/Hireco for repairs or servicing :wink:

dan dare:
Was Redburn Transfer part of Deben ?.
If so are they still going ?

They are still operating, not sure what the tye up was, but seen them in Felixstowe with skellies even this week :wink:

can the first member to get the £150 please post on here? as I cant see anyone getting paid. its unfortunate for the OP and I have been stung and seen my folks stung by cowboys who go to the wall (some of whom are remembered fondly on the old time threads!) its [zb] but also happens all too much. no doubt when debens and sons Bristol ltd restarts in a week or so all sorts of hire companies will be falling over themselves to win the account.

so back to my point - you call in and say seen your trailer in Felixstowe, they go oh ok thanks - trailer gets recovered you don’t know as moved away you then rely on them to pay ‘reward’.

I cant see it myself sorry and for those who think my attitude is [zb] I have never stole etc. if I find a phone in a bar I will hand it in etc.

Fair play to you, it is all a matter off trust.

I too return stuff, like a full wallet I found on top off a pay and display machine. Phoned the information number on the machine, guy asked if I could wait as He was at another site. Would hope others would do the same for Me :wink:

:laughing: fair point Eddie

don’t get me wrong I do hope the OP recovers the trailers without being stung as no doubt the tyres will have been changed for ■■■■■■■■■■■■ ones, anything that isn’t screwed down removed etc. that’s if not been cut up and sold as scrap.

and fair play for having a sense of humour to him, but its the sceptical side of me that cant see anyone being given any amount of ££.

del trotter:

Own Account Driver:

James the cat:

Own Account Driver:
Sorry but the OP is try to use the forum for asset recovery on the cheap.

These trailers most definitely are not stolen, in the criminal sense of the law. The OP’s firm may well technically have title of them but, as already mentioned, they are effectively held against unpaid debts.

If someone asks me to store, repair or do some other work on a vehicle, or trailer, and they then don’t pay for, as far as I’m concerned, any reason that vehicle will stay in my yard until the debt is settled and I’m not going out of my way to track down who has title in thing, if this means I end up out of pocket.

They can’t even run their business competently enough to know where their assets are so why are they more entitled than me to not end up out of pocket?

That’s rubbish. If you buy a stolen car then the law has the power to seize the car from you and return it to the owner. The recovery of money from the person who sold it to you is your problem. You can’t hold assets in lieu of payment just because you feel the customer which owed you money was in custody of the assets just because he provided them to you. The rightful legal owner can have them legally swiped from you. Think chep and pallets. Your recovery of your money with the middle man is your problem.

Think of it this way, I rent out a car to someone. He takes it in for a clean at a car cleaning place, doesn’t pay. So the cleaners hold the car. I own the car and owe the cleaners nothing. They have no legal right to hold my vehicle. Their legal beef is with the middle man and his assets. The trailers aren’t assets of Deben to be held in lieu. They won’t appear on Deben’s asset list and they have no legal papers to prove ownership.

Yes, and there’s legal remedy to that but it’s not theft.

If your mate brought your vehicle to me and we did work on it or stored it, as I said previously, it would not leave my premises until payment was made for what was owed regardless, if he had your permission, or not, he’d have had the keys so presumably he had not forcibly stolen it.

If you didn’t want to pay the bill you would have to, pay legal costs, and come back with a court order and then you would get the vehicle back, minus any new parts fitted, and any bits we stripped off in a polythene bag in the boot. If you weren’t happy the vehicle was not back in working order you would then have to sue me for that. Assuming you had any sort of win on that, the court would probably just order I put some parts of similar vintage to the ones I took off - which I would still have, in reality, as would have lied I disposed of them. The whole sum cost of this process will have been zero to me.

So in summary it always makes sense to hold on to assets, not criminally stolen and a civil matter, unless forced to do otherwise only by court order and don’t go out of your way to assist anyone.

The hire co and the subbies who’ve presumably got the trailers, are just both unsecured creditors, one lot’s owed a trailer the other some money. I’ve no interest in assisting one side over the other.

I’m not sure a bigger load of [zb] has ever been posted on the internet, hopefully you don’t ever act on such nonsense.

Yes, lost count of the times.

As I keep saying nothing goes out of my yard with outstanding money on it ever, without a court order, doesn’t matter who it belongs to or who is making the noise some company that claims they have title/official receiver/administrator/liquidator/bailiff/repo company etc.

It’s only the mugs and idiots who don’t know the real score who go out of their way to return stuff and are intimidated by all the huff and puff nonsense in the solicitor’s letters unless it’s a very expensive bit of kit they rarely go to court.

This piece from a legal website alludes to the difficulty in getting stuff back:

To the Asset-Based Lender, if payments from the debtor have stopped, what has happened to your leased asset? Is it merely that there have been some hiccups in payments or is the business shutting down? If the debtor business is shutting down, what are they going to do with your asset and is there a value in recovering that asset now? It is often better to take steps now than to find it has been sold on or that it is locked in closed premises. For assets that are easily moveable (like vehicles) you may wish to consider an interim interdict (in England, an injunction) to stop the debtor moving or selling the equipment.

If the goods are already in the hands of a third party, the economics of the situation often require to be considered. Although the third party may have no title to use the goods (as title will only pass to innocent consumer purchasers in very limited circumstances under the Hire Purchase Act 1964), an Asset-Based Lender first has to find out who the third party is and where the asset is before assessing whether there is any useful purpose in seeking recovery.

eddie snax:

Own Account Driver:
So in summary it always makes sense to hold on to assets, not criminally stolen and a civil matter, unless forced to do otherwise only by court order and don’t go out of your way to assist anyone.

The hire co and the subbies who’ve presumably got the trailers, are just both unsecured creditors, one lot’s owed a trailer the other some money. I’ve no interest in assisting one side over the other.

I’m not going to profess to know the law with regards to title off ownership, asset accountability, the position off the official receivers (as I believe the people who wind up companies are called) with regard to the return property not under the ownership off the insolvent party, in this case hired equipment. But it seems strange to Me that you suggest that it is legal for a 3rd party, that being another creditor, but not the owner off the hired equipment to withhold the return off the said property, to the legal owner. Or for that matter that the official receiver would have the legal right to withhold the return off hired equipment to its rightful owner. I would understand, that if a creditor had equipment owned by a company which had gone bust, that the creditor might use that equipment to reduce his loses from the insolvent party.

Sometimes the legal rights just don’t make sense.

As for your scenario with work carried out on a Vehicle, not under the instruction off the owner but a 3rd party, then would not your issue be with the 3rd party, and not the owner. If you refused to return the Vehicle to its owner or returned it incomplete, I’d have thought that the Owner would have an open and shut case for damages, that would probably be more costly than just returning the vehicle complete and arguing about it later :wink:

I’m not trying to be clever, I’m just a bit surprised at the inference in your post :open_mouth:

Ok, without going too much into it. I have, in the past, been involved in uplifting kit in repos/snatchbacks. What you would always try to do is ■■■■■■ the stuff back when the payments were in arrears, so the contract breached but, before an administrator was appointed, as the administrators have powers to hold on to the kit. Having said that I did forcibly ■■■■■■ back a forklift, I’d paid for but hadn’t been delivered, from a warehouse where the administrators were actually present and they threatened all kinds of things, and legally I was probably not entitled to take it, at that juncture, but nothing was ever heard of.

These people who pay for sofas then the firm goes bust before they’re delivered my gut is, it would be the same, if they went mobhanded and snatched the sofa and took it home any sort of legal action would never go anywhere.

The administrators can’t be trusted they often make noises they’ll let you have some of your stock for instance, that’s not been paid for, you have title in back and then it turns out they’ve sold it off cheap to line their own pockets.

With the vehicle repair you have acted in good faith and you would argue the person who brought it in was acting as an agent of the owner. Bringing a case for damages would be firstly expensive and secondly you would argue the owner failed to mitigate their losses by simply paying for the work that was done and pursuing the person who brought the car.

Blimey, it’s not that bad is it? Those trailers will more than likely be at one of Debens various trailer swap jobs, argos/tesco/■■■■■■■ etc. Picture the scene, you’re tipping out at such an establishment, see some skells with empty boxes in the yard, clock the number, make a phone call, get a days money for 10 mins work when they get it back. What’s not to like. Nobody is asking you to hitch up and drag it 200 miles for £150 ffs :unamused:

just a thought… gps trackers cheap to install against the cost of a valuable asset

Own Account Driver:

James the cat:

Own Account Driver:
Sorry but the OP is try to use the forum for asset recovery on the cheap.

These trailers most definitely are not stolen, in the criminal sense of the law. The OP’s firm may well technically have title of them but, as already mentioned, they are effectively held against unpaid debts.

If someone asks me to store, repair or do some other work on a vehicle, or trailer, and they then don’t pay for, as far as I’m concerned, any reason that vehicle will stay in my yard until the debt is settled and I’m not going out of my way to track down who has title in thing, if this means I end up out of pocket.

They can’t even run their business competently enough to know where their assets are so why are they more entitled than me to not end up out of pocket?

That’s rubbish. If you buy a stolen car then the law has the power to seize the car from you and return it to the owner. The recovery of money from the person who sold it to you is your problem. You can’t hold assets in lieu of payment just because you feel the customer which owed you money was in custody of the assets just because he provided them to you. The rightful legal owner can have them legally swiped from you. Think chep and pallets. Your recovery of your money with the middle man is your problem.

Think of it this way, I rent out a car to someone. He takes it in for a clean at a car cleaning place, doesn’t pay. So the cleaners hold the car. I own the car and owe the cleaners nothing. They have no legal right to hold my vehicle. Their legal beef is with the middle man and his assets. The trailers aren’t assets of Deben to be held in lieu. They won’t appear on Deben’s asset list and they have no legal papers to prove ownership.

Yes, and there’s legal remedy to that but it’s not theft.

If your mate brought your vehicle to me and we did work on it or stored it, as I said previously, it would not leave my premises until payment was made for what was owed regardless, if he had your permission, or not, he’d have had the keys so presumably he had not forcibly stolen it.

If you didn’t want to pay the bill you would have to, pay legal costs, and come back with a court order and then you would get the vehicle back, minus any new parts fitted, and any bits we stripped off in a polythene bag in the boot. If you weren’t happy the vehicle was not back in working order you would then have to sue me for that. Assuming you had any sort of win on that, the court would probably just order I put some parts of similar vintage to the ones I took off - which I would still have, in reality, as would have lied I disposed of them. The whole sum cost of this process will have been zero to me.

So in summary it always makes sense to hold on to assets, not criminally stolen and a civil matter, unless forced to do otherwise only by court order and don’t go out of your way to assist anyone.

The hire co and the subbies who’ve presumably got the trailers, are just both unsecured creditors, one lot’s owed a trailer the other some money. I’ve no interest in assisting one side over the other.

I’m struggling with parts of this argument, particularly ‘zero cost to me’. Removing and refitting the parts to the vehicle is going to be lost revenue time since no one will be paying for it as well as lost time to recover overheads (& profit). So if the labour rate is £45 per hr and it takes 2 hours to remove & refit the parts then the ‘loss’ is £180.

As for ‘putting the vehicle back in working order’, it came into your possession NOT in working order. I don’t see any reason to do more than remove your own property.

I have been in a vaguely similar situation with the executors of a company owner who wanted to abandon a project and remove it to their own company premises for completion, while in the meantime withholding payment for submitted invoices. Rear chassis subframe rails were already removed and off site with the body on stands and potentially surrounded by other immobilised vehicles. The quote (with direct access) for removing the body from the building alone was several times the value of the outstanding invoices. The next stage was to dump the body on the floor since the stands were required for another job.

Notimetoulouse:
just a thought… gps trackers cheap to install against the cost of a valuable asset

Trackers ain’t a lot of good on skellys no bodywork to bury them

cav551:

Own Account Driver:

James the cat:

Own Account Driver:
Sorry but the OP is try to use the forum for asset recovery on the cheap.

These trailers most definitely are not stolen, in the criminal sense of the law. The OP’s firm may well technically have title of them but, as already mentioned, they are effectively held against unpaid debts.

If someone asks me to store, repair or do some other work on a vehicle, or trailer, and they then don’t pay for, as far as I’m concerned, any reason that vehicle will stay in my yard until the debt is settled and I’m not going out of my way to track down who has title in thing, if this means I end up out of pocket.

They can’t even run their business competently enough to know where their assets are so why are they more entitled than me to not end up out of pocket?

That’s rubbish. If you buy a stolen car then the law has the power to seize the car from you and return it to the owner. The recovery of money from the person who sold it to you is your problem. You can’t hold assets in lieu of payment just because you feel the customer which owed you money was in custody of the assets just because he provided them to you. The rightful legal owner can have them legally swiped from you. Think chep and pallets. Your recovery of your money with the middle man is your problem.

Think of it this way, I rent out a car to someone. He takes it in for a clean at a car cleaning place, doesn’t pay. So the cleaners hold the car. I own the car and owe the cleaners nothing. They have no legal right to hold my vehicle. Their legal beef is with the middle man and his assets. The trailers aren’t assets of Deben to be held in lieu. They won’t appear on Deben’s asset list and they have no legal papers to prove ownership.

Yes, and there’s legal remedy to that but it’s not theft.

If your mate brought your vehicle to me and we did work on it or stored it, as I said previously, it would not leave my premises until payment was made for what was owed regardless, if he had your permission, or not, he’d have had the keys so presumably he had not forcibly stolen it.

If you didn’t want to pay the bill you would have to, pay legal costs, and come back with a court order and then you would get the vehicle back, minus any new parts fitted, and any bits we stripped off in a polythene bag in the boot. If you weren’t happy the vehicle was not back in working order you would then have to sue me for that. Assuming you had any sort of win on that, the court would probably just order I put some parts of similar vintage to the ones I took off - which I would still have, in reality, as would have lied I disposed of them. The whole sum cost of this process will have been zero to me.

So in summary it always makes sense to hold on to assets, not criminally stolen and a civil matter, unless forced to do otherwise only by court order and don’t go out of your way to assist anyone.

The hire co and the subbies who’ve presumably got the trailers, are just both unsecured creditors, one lot’s owed a trailer the other some money. I’ve no interest in assisting one side over the other.

I’m struggling with parts of this argument, particularly ‘zero cost to me’. Removing and refitting the parts to the vehicle is going to be lost revenue time since no one will be paying for it as well as lost time to recover overheads (& profit). So if the labour rate is £45 per hr and it takes 2 hours to remove & refit the parts then the ‘loss’ is £180.

As for ‘putting the vehicle back in working order’, it came into your possession NOT in working order. I don’t see any reason to do more than remove your own property.

I have been in a vaguely similar situation with the executors of a company owner who wanted to abandon a project and remove it to their own company premises for completion, while in the meantime withholding payment for submitted invoices. Rear chassis subframe rails were already removed and off site with the body on stands and potentially surrounded by other immobilised vehicles. The quote (with direct access) for removing the body from the building alone was several times the value of the outstanding invoices. The next stage was to dump the body on the floor since the stands were required for another job.

Obviously the normal charging labour rate isn’t the actual cost of the job in that case.

Did have pretty much that case and the small claims court judge just said put all the bits back on that were removed to take the new unpaid for bits off. This was a pick up truck lent by a mate to the guy who brought it in for repair then disappeared. We didn’t put them back though the bloke, unsurprisingly didn’t want us to.

Own Account Driver:

eddie snax:

Own Account Driver:
So in summary it always makes sense to hold on to assets, not criminally stolen and a civil matter, unless forced to do otherwise only by court order and don’t go out of your way to assist anyone.

The hire co and the subbies who’ve presumably got the trailers, are just both unsecured creditors, one lot’s owed a trailer the other some money. I’ve no interest in assisting one side over the other.

I’m not going to profess to know the law with regards to title off ownership, asset accountability, the position off the official receivers (as I believe the people who wind up companies are called) with regard to the return property not under the ownership off the insolvent party, in this case hired equipment. But it seems strange to Me that you suggest that it is legal for a 3rd party, that being another creditor, but not the owner off the hired equipment to withhold the return off the said property, to the legal owner. Or for that matter that the official receiver would have the legal right to withhold the return off hired equipment to its rightful owner. I would understand, that if a creditor had equipment owned by a company which had gone bust, that the creditor might use that equipment to reduce his loses from the insolvent party.

Sometimes the legal rights just don’t make sense.

As for your scenario with work carried out on a Vehicle, not under the instruction off the owner but a 3rd party, then would not your issue be with the 3rd party, and not the owner. If you refused to return the Vehicle to its owner or returned it incomplete, I’d have thought that the Owner would have an open and shut case for damages, that would probably be more costly than just returning the vehicle complete and arguing about it later :wink:

I’m not trying to be clever, I’m just a bit surprised at the inference in your post :open_mouth:

Ok, without going too much into it. I have, in the past, been involved in uplifting kit in repos/snatchbacks. What you would always try to do is ■■■■■■ the stuff back when the payments were in arrears, so the contract breached but, before an administrator was appointed, as the administrators have powers to hold on to the kit. Having said that I did forcibly ■■■■■■ back a forklift, I’d paid for but hadn’t been delivered, from a warehouse where the administrators were actually present and they threatened all kinds of things, and legally I was probably not entitled to take it, at that juncture, but nothing was ever heard of.

These people who pay for sofas then the firm goes bust before they’re delivered my gut is, it would be the same, if they went mobhanded and snatched the sofa and took it home any sort of legal action would never go anywhere.

The administrators can’t be trusted they often make noises they’ll let you have some of your stock for instance, that’s not been paid for, you have title in back and then it turns out they’ve sold it off cheap to line their own pockets.

With the vehicle repair you have acted in good faith and you would argue the person who brought it in was acting as an agent of the owner. Bringing a case for damages would be firstly expensive and secondly you would argue the owner failed to mitigate their losses by simply paying for the work that was done and pursuing the person who brought the car.

Interesting stuff mate,

And as you have said the vehicle owner could just pay for the work. Unfortunately the sort that wont pay, don’t tend to have any moral fibre, and always think they are right even in the face off the prevailing evidence :wink:

OVLOV JAY:
Blimey, it’s not that bad is it? Those trailers will more than likely be at one of Debens various trailer swap jobs, argos/tesco/■■■■■■■ etc. Picture the scene, you’re tipping out at such an establishment, see some skells with empty boxes in the yard, clock the number, make a phone call, get a days money for 10 mins work when they get it back. What’s not to like. Nobody is asking you to hitch up and drag it 200 miles for £150 ffs :unamused:

Yep, and I’ve wrote down all the numbers, coz I intend to see them before you Mate, Keeerrrccchhhingg :smiley: