Carryfast:
switchlogic:
Yes, in your opinion.So you’re saying that we were in net trade deficit with europe before we joined the EEC/EU and in net trade surplus afterwards and we haven’t been net contributors to the whole scam since we joined
.
You read a lot into 4 words there didn’t you…
My suggestion is that the mass default of unsecured debt would be the salvation of the secured debt markets, and with it depositors that would not then need to be bailed out. There of course are too many people who’ll borrow expensive money to buy food and pay cheap debts, rather than just use their meagre income to pay the cheap debts (the secured ones) and leave the rest out with the dustbins. If my idea is flawed, it is because the vast majority of people might not HAVE cheap mortgages… Skipton mortgage payers are not going to be rolling in cash right now are they? Their lender has effectively defaulted on THEM by overcharging. The government or bank of England could have brought them to task by “removing the guarantees” from Skipton as a punishment, but no. Theft BY the system is to be allowed it seems. It’s only the public that are told that even unsecured debts MUST be paid, whilst institutions get out of their obligations on even secured money way too easily. 
If Wonga fell over tomorrow, do you think there would be knock-on bankruptcies, or do you think as I do that “no one would give a ■■■■” and “good riddance”?
i am immigrant.can t said yes or no.you will be decide.but Mr Cameron want reach own reputation and nothing more.
now about bussines never back this time what was 5 -10 years ago.this time gone ,now will be another time,much more economicle,saving .
about imigration -You UK Border Agency ,customs work very very bad.just make strike,want much more money.but can t found place where open sale not legal cigarettes,drug.cant recognise legal passport from false passport.can t make thousand people deportation ,after prison.
ps.i clean person.live here by UK rulles(just some time bring some extra packets of cigarettes from abroad).and i think this years i leaving Uk by privat reason.
Winseer:
My suggestion is that the mass default of unsecured debt would be the salvation of the secured debt markets, and with it depositors that would not then need to be bailed out. There of course are too many people who’ll borrow expensive money to buy food and pay cheap debts, rather than just use their meagre income to pay the cheap debts (the secured ones) and leave the rest out with the dustbins. If my idea is flawed, it is because the vast majority of people might not HAVE cheap mortgages… Skipton mortgage payers are not going to be rolling in cash right now are they? Their lender has effectively defaulted on THEM by overcharging. The government or bank of England could have brought them to task by “removing the guarantees” from Skipton as a punishment, but no. Theft BY the system is to be allowed it seems. It’s only the public that are told that even unsecured debts MUST be paid, whilst institutions get out of their obligations on even secured money way too easily.If Wonga fell over tomorrow, do you think there would be knock-on bankruptcies, or do you think as I do that “no one would give a ■■■■” and “good riddance”?
The idea of cheap mortgages is just another indirect form of subsidy for low wage employment by ripping off investors by not paying a reasonable amount of interest on their money.In many cases the unsecured debt market is all about people trying to convert their secured debt into unsecured debt by using unsecured loans to finance their mortgage repayments one way or another.IE if they borrow an unsecured loan to pay for the car,electric/gas bill,etc etc etc because there’s not enough money left after paying the mortgage to pay in cash,that’s still effectively the same thing as using that unsecured loan to pay the mortgage.
So yes mass default in the unsecured loan markets would probably also have a knock on effect on the secured loan market too because it’s obvious that the unsecured loan market is just being used by the government to hide the problem of incomes lagging behind outgoings.
Which is why the government won’t control the unsecured loan market because,just like printing money and ripping off investors,it knows that the unsecured loan market is one of the only things that’s keeping the economy afloat. 
Dennisthemenace:
triple-tango:
I often think that Germany actually did win the war, it just took a long time.
I understand Adolf Hitler was aiming for an Europe controlled by a central Germany…Yes, they did. The “engine” of Europe is obviously Germany.
I think what’s meant by the EU having ‘kept the peace in Europe’ actually translates into keeping German workers happy at the expense of everyone else.Because both the US and European governments are terrified that if they get upset again the whole thing which started WW2 would kick off again.Which is an insult to all those conscripts who died fighting the zb’s in that war. 
switchlogic:
Carryfast:
switchlogic:
Yes, in your opinion.So you’re saying that we were in net trade deficit with europe before we joined the EEC/EU and in net trade surplus afterwards and we haven’t been net contributors to the whole scam since we joined
You read a lot into 4 words there didn’t you…
You didn’t answer the question.
Dennisthemenace:
Carryfast:
Dennisthemenace:
Carryfast:
Saaamon:
crispie:
Luke has it spot on Cameron has pulled a blinder, if you do not vote Consevative at the next election and they dont get in any referendum vanishes. Certainly UKIP will not offer one, and Milliband has not the balls to go for one.
For me personally its stay in and challenge from a postion of strength if we move away the doors will close. The company I work for still manufacture in the UK and we export over 60% into Europe, Germany is our main market and ship at least 1-2 trucks per week, in fact some of you on here may be shipping for us as i write this, we are owned by an American firm and if the UK pull out i can see them looking to move to mainland Europe where the main market is for us, and the repercussions on 400 workforce.
As for Norway and Switzerland they also pay a lot of money to Europe without having any say in any regulations or laws passed that still affect them so that they can trade easily.
We are a successful European company it just so happened we are based in the UK.
What does get up my nose is the constant cry of “we dont make anything any more in the UK” if more of our politicians visited companies like ours they would see that “MADE IN UK” is still a fantastic brand in Europe.
Don’t forget you guys and girls driving those trucks all over the UK and Europe without the influence of Europe right or wrong do you prefer the nice Volvo, Scania’s, MAN, Merc’s etc than the old GB Atkinson’s, AEC, ERF’s as if it was not for the “foreign” makers bringing the industry into the 21st century and being part of Europe where would we be.
Sorry for going on for so long
Anyway by the time comes to vote i will be happily retired living in New Zealand.
Good luck for 2013Well said!
More like Norway and Swiss are mugs adhering to EU regs and paying the EU for the privilege of trading with it.We’d actually be in a much stronger position than Norway and Switzerland if we’re out because we’ve got a massive trade deficit with the EU to start with.In our case all we need to do is tell the EU to get stuffed we’re not paying for the privilege of importing stuff from them that we could be making for ourselves and if they want a trade war then bring it on.The fact is it’s the EU that has everything to lose in that situation while we can only win.
Britain would be nothing without Europe. Sad, but true.
The British economy was much stronger before we joined and all joining did was to turn a trade surplus with europe into a deficit with the addition of paying massive amounts of money in the form of contributions for the privilege.
“The British economy was much stronger…”" That’s the keyword; WAS. Once upon a time… Just think about the vehicle industry; Rover is gone, the streets are ruled by german cars. The British industry simply poor. When I was a chid in the seventies people were looking for goods with the words on them; “Made in England”. Now the people do not even know these words, anyone looking for good quality german goods, or cheap chinese rubbish. The British economy run on the consumption generated by the 60 million people who live in the UK. Most of the workplaces are in the retail business…etc. Also, ask any foreigner trucker; they always come over here with a full load, but big time they going back to Europe empty, that obviously means, the import much bigger than the export.
The point I was making is that the de industrialisation of Britain was a deliberate government policy to weaken the British unions and create an over supply situation in the labour market thereby reducing labour costs for big business. While at the same time providing a trading advantage for foreign industry which in many cases was where British investment interests were not here.Also not forgetting that issue of European policy being all about keeping ze Germans happy in case they get upset again and decide to kick off yet another war.Unfortunately for the Tories the bit they missed was that economic growth is totally dependent on wage growth.No surprise being that the Tories have never been all that bright because their ‘education’ only teaches them what their bs ideology wants them to know.
The bottom line is the rich company owners get cheap labour from Eastern Europe or rather this abundance of labour keeps wages low for the common man in this country so the rich get richer and the poor get poorer.
If we withdraw from the EU they probly won’t let the Bulgos and the Turks in hence wages would rise and those rich men would be poorer.
This country is run by the rich for the rich.
Carryfast:
Dennisthemenace:
triple-tango:
I often think that Germany actually did win the war, it just took a long time.
I understand Adolf Hitler was aiming for an Europe controlled by a central Germany…Yes, they did. The “engine” of Europe is obviously Germany.
I think what’s meant by the EU having ‘kept the peace in Europe’ actually translates into keeping German workers happy at the expense of everyone else.Because both the US and European governments are terrified that if they get upset again the whole thing which started WW2 would kick off again.Which is an insult to all those conscripts who died fighting the zb’s in that war.
No… It’s a different time now. I do not think that Germany would make a war again. German workers?? Most of them already Turkish…: 
Carryfast:
switchlogic:
Carryfast:
switchlogic:
Yes, in your opinion.So you’re saying that we were in net trade deficit with europe before we joined the EEC/EU and in net trade surplus afterwards and we haven’t been net contributors to the whole scam since we joined
You read a lot into 4 words there didn’t you…
You didn’t answer the question.
Didn’t consider it worthy of a reply
IN today, IN tomorrow and IN in 5 years time. Never before have I seen so much xenophobia written in one place! Must say that DC is playing a very dangerous game.
Héraultais:
IN today, IN tomorrow and IN in 5 years time. Never before have I seen so much xenophobia written in one place! Must say that DC is playing a very dangerous game.
With all due respect, you’re in France. 
i htink DC is playing the very game that gutless tony blair was scared %^&$less of playing — it’s the right game at the right time — i’ve never had the opportunity to vote on the issue - i’ve just had all this european bs forced on me so why shouldn’t i have say in what goes on - it is afterall my tax that gets sent to wherever for these unelected beaurocrats to use and abuse…
foxy stars:
i htink DC is playing the very game that gutless tony blair was scared %^&$less of playing — it’s the right game at the right time — i’ve never had the opportunity to vote on the issue - i’ve just had all this european bs forced on me so why shouldn’t i have say in what goes on - it is afterall my tax that gets sent to wherever for these unelected beaurocrats to use and abuse…
There’s actually no difference between Cameron,Clegg,Miliband and Blair.Cameron is just lying to to keep his backbenchers happy and to keep the UKIP vote.The Tory Party support EU membership now just as they did in 1973.The right game at the right time would be calling a referendum now if he’s not lying and if it’s yes at least basing any further membership subject to future continuing review and referendum considering that generations change and those who can’t vote now might like to leave in future.
Out now.the swiss seem to be ok without it
OVLOV JAY:
Héraultais:
IN today, IN tomorrow and IN in 5 years time. Never before have I seen so much xenophobia written in one place! Must say that DC is playing a very dangerous game.With all due respect, you’re in France.
Exactly, and before I moved here, I would probably have voted undecided, but I now see the bigger picture.
nedbro:
Out now.the swiss seem to be ok without it
Switzerland is a bit different county. They are the deposit safe of the world.
OVLOV JAY:
Héraultais:
IN today, IN tomorrow and IN in 5 years time. Never before have I seen so much xenophobia written in one place! Must say that DC is playing a very dangerous game.With all due respect, you’re in France.
Think about it; if someone watches the playground from outside, they can see much better…
Dennisthemenace:
nedbro:
Out now.the swiss seem to be ok without itSwitzerland is a bit different county. They are the deposit safe of the world.
It’s actually more a case of they won’t joing because they know that they’d lose the right to decide who can live there or not and they know how much they’d have to pay in to support everyone else if they joined the scam just like in the case of the Isle of Man and the Channel Islands.No surprise that many of the bankers who shout loudest about the so called ‘advantages’ of EU membership are the same ones who invest their own money,and prefer to live,in those places not the EU.But Norway isn’t the deposit safe of the world.
Carryfast:
Dennisthemenace:
nedbro:
Out now.the swiss seem to be ok without itSwitzerland is a bit different county. They are the deposit safe of the world.
It’s actually more a case of they won’t joing because they know that they’d lose the right to decide who can live there or not and they know how much they’d have to pay in to support everyone else if they joined the scam just like in the case of the Isle of Man and the Channel Islands.No surprise that many of the bankers who shout loudest about the so called ‘advantages’ of EU membership are the same ones who invest their own money,and prefer to live,in those places not the EU.But Norway isn’t the deposit safe of the world.
Norway has plenty of oil, timber, iron… They are rich.