Think about it; if someone watches the playground from outside, they can see much better…
If Britain was doing so well as the pro EU lot say then no one would want to leave here to live in France which no surprise is one of the countries which has gained from Britain’s contributions.You can bet that the French wouldn’t be so keen on the idea if the whole of the British population decided to move to France.
nedbro:
Out now.the swiss seem to be ok without it
Switzerland is a bit different county. They are the deposit safe of the world.
It’s actually more a case of they won’t joing because they know that they’d lose the right to decide who can live there or not and they know how much they’d have to pay in to support everyone else if they joined the scam just like in the case of the Isle of Man and the Channel Islands.No surprise that many of the bankers who shout loudest about the so called ‘advantages’ of EU membership are the same ones who invest their own money,and prefer to live,in those places not the EU.But Norway isn’t the deposit safe of the world.
Norway has plenty of oil, timber, iron… They are rich.
We had plenty of oil and gas too and exclusive rights to our own fishing areas before we joined the EU and effectively gave a lot of it away to them so that they could take British fish stocks and fill their tanks for less than we were paying at the pumps for our own oil.Which is one of the reason why the Norwegians aren’t stupid enough to join.
Think about it; if someone watches the playground from outside, they can see much better…
If Britain was doing so well as the pro EU lot say then no one would want to leave here to live in France which no surprise is one of the countries which has gained from Britain’s contributions.You can bet that the French wouldn’t be so keen on the idea if the whole of the British population decided to move to France.
You are making the mistake of thinking that I moved to France to get away from the UK. Though some do, I and many others moved there or wherever because we simply want to try living somewhere else and learn another language, culture etc. I still love the UK as well.
Think about it; if someone watches the playground from outside, they can see much better…
If Britain was doing so well as the pro EU lot say then no one would want to leave here to live in France which no surprise is one of the countries which has gained from Britain’s contributions.You can bet that the French wouldn’t be so keen on the idea if the whole of the British population decided to move to France.
You are making the mistake of thinking that I moved to France to get away from the UK. Though some do, I and many others moved there or wherever because we simply want to try living somewhere else and learn another language, culture etc. I still love the UK as well.
I like many places in the EU such as Italy and France too.But that’s not the same thing as looking after our own respective national interests which is what the idea of nation states is all about and runs totally contrary to the idea of the rip off EU ( from Britain’s national interest point of view ) let alone if/when it all turns into the type of Federation that it will inevitably become sooner or later.I don’t think that there were any real barriers stopping anyone from Britain living in France and learning and enjoying it’s langauge and culture and vice versa before we joined the EEC/EU at least up to living in each other’s respective countries without wanting take up full citizenship.In just the same way that we were in trade surplus with Europe before we joined the EEC and contrary to all the scare mongering by the pro europe lot British trucks ( or tourists ) weren’t turned back at Calais.
this carryfast is why the uk needs to be outside of the EU not in it. germany got rebuilt along with the rest of the eastern block and those countries that needed help after world war II but they don’t it anymore surely or are they all that bad with economics…
Winseer:
It’s more post-thatcherism. We have to live in the reality that is the mess created by previous generations of politicians, especially Thatcher.
Ford, on the other hand, wasn’t going to be signing up to the “underpay employees, and let them top-up their lifestyle shortfalls with debt” system pushed upon society by the zionist faction.
0
“Supply creates it’s own demand”
(Say’s Law)
and
“If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you.”
(Samuel Clemens)
seem more appropriate things to consider here.
Supply doesn’t create it’s own demand.
what ya man say was on about was if you supply something and make money, then you use that money to go and demand something
Not at all. Once upon a time we got by without mobile phones. Now nearly everyone has one, and can’t give up using one. Supply was created, and demand is almost total from near zero when the price was too high for the general population back in the 1980’s for example.
The British Empire created demand for Opium in China by over-supplying it to the nation that had no interest in paying top dollar for British imports of a normal nature otherwise. We created a market, then addiction jacked up the demand (and the price!) of that market. Pretty rotten, but history is written by the empires not by it’s victims. One could even argue that China are now getting their own back using “Credit” instead of “Opium” as their dodgy product that they create artificial demand for by supressing their own currency, supporting currencies borrowed, and holding down interest rates worldwide - oversupply of credit which of course we do what with? - Buy Chinese manufactured goods.
You can also create demand out of a money-losing scenario given enough credit. Even if the founding firm goes under most of the time, the industry it created goes on IF demand has been created in time. Brunel’s enterprises lost the shirts of their investor base, but no one would dare suggest what infrastructure there is that is credited to him is nothing but long term, and continues to be beneficial to the nation. Dot Com firms have condensed into a small shadow of the huge number that existed during the dot com boom. All sense of reality has been lost, because some of the best products are from now long-bust firms, whilst big firms still continuing to burn cash daily prosper - because they’ve got ever more credit line to draw upon.
Ask yourself the questions “Does Google make any profit out of YOU?” compared to “Do you use infrastructure like Fibre Optic internet connection that once belonged to a now-bust firm?”
If everyone took the view “Let’s not do that, because there isn’t a market for it” we’d still be living in grass huts.
Say’s Law is frequently misinterpreted as “supply creates its own demand,” which is evidently false. If it were true, anyone could do whatever they wanted for a living and be successful at it.
Winseer:
It’s more post-thatcherism. We have to live in the reality that is the mess created by previous generations of politicians, especially Thatcher.
Ford, on the other hand, wasn’t going to be signing up to the “underpay employees, and let them top-up their lifestyle shortfalls with debt” system pushed upon society by the zionist faction.
0
“Supply creates it’s own demand”
(Say’s Law)
and
“If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you.”
(Samuel Clemens)
seem more appropriate things to consider here.
Supply doesn’t create it’s own demand.
what ya man say was on about was if you supply something and make money, then you use that money to go and demand something
Not at all. Once upon a time we got by without mobile phones. Now nearly everyone has one, and can’t give up using one. Supply was created, and demand is almost total from near zero when the price was too high for the general population back in the 1980’s for example.
The British Empire created demand for Opium in China by over-supplying it to the nation that had no interest in paying top dollar for British imports of a normal nature otherwise. We created a market, then addiction jacked up the demand (and the price!) of that market. Pretty rotten, but history is written by the empires not by it’s victims. One could even argue that China are now getting their own back using “Credit” instead of “Opium” as their dodgy product that they create artificial demand for by supressing their own currency, supporting currencies borrowed, and holding down interest rates worldwide - oversupply of credit which of course we do what with? - Buy Chinese manufactured goods.
You can also create demand out of a money-losing scenario given enough credit. Even if the founding firm goes under most of the time, the industry it created goes on IF demand has been created in time. Brunel’s enterprises lost the shirts of their investor base, but no one would dare suggest what infrastructure there is that is credited to him is nothing but long term, and continues to be beneficial to the nation. Dot Com firms have condensed into a small shadow of the huge number that existed during the dot com boom. All sense of reality has been lost, because some of the best products are from now long-bust firms, whilst big firms still continuing to burn cash daily prosper - because they’ve got ever more credit line to draw upon.
Ask yourself the questions “Does Google make any profit out of YOU?” compared to “Do you use infrastructure like Fibre Optic internet connection that once belonged to a now-bust firm?”
If everyone took the view “Let’s not do that, because there isn’t a market for it” we’d still be living in grass huts.
Say’s Law is frequently misinterpreted as “supply creates its own demand,” which is evidently false. If it were true, anyone could do whatever they wanted for a living and be successful at it.
It’s only money that creates demand for products in any economic system that doesn’t rely on barter.Supply and quality is what determines the value of the money it doesn’t determine the level of demand.
The sooner we leave the EU the better. We have far too many levels of government, all snuffling at the communal troughs we are forced to provide. They all have to be seen to be doing something to justify their position at the trough, so they keep thinking up new rules to show us they are doing something. I would sooner they did something useful that I didn’t have to pay for.
If leaving the EU ever happens, (very big if) it will probably happen long after I have retired, so realisticly it won’t make much difference to me in my work.
It may allow the government to reduce taxes as we won’t be paying into the EU any more. That would be good if I was still paying taxes when it happened.
Alternatively it could allow more generous pensions or better healthcare.
More likely it will allow the government to employ more people in non jobs, but at least they will spend their wages in our economy.
I’m going to vote for Cameron and I hope lots of other people will too so he has to keep his promise or be shown up as a sham. I was going to vote UKIP as a way of sending a message that I am not happy with the EU, but that would be a wasted vote that might let Dave off the hook. So DC has pulled off a master stroke but it may come back to bite him on the arse unless he really is willing to pull us out of the EU.
Big Jon’s dad:
The sooner we leave the EU the better. We have far too many levels of government, all snuffling at the communal troughs we are forced to provide. They all have to be seen to be doing something to justify their position at the trough, so they keep thinking up new rules to show us they are doing something. I would sooner they did something useful that I didn’t have to pay for.
If leaving the EU ever happens, (very big if) it will probably happen long after I have retired, so realisticly it won’t make much difference to me in my work.
It may allow the government to reduce taxes as we won’t be paying into the EU any more. That would be good if I was still paying taxes when it happened.
Alternatively it could allow more generous pensions or better healthcare.
More likely it will allow the government to employ more people in non jobs, but at least they will spend their wages in our economy.
I’m going to vote for Cameron and I hope lots of other people will too so he has to keep his promise or be shown up as a sham. I was going to vote UKIP as a way of sending a message that I am not happy with the EU, but that would be a wasted vote that might let Dave off the hook. So DC has pulled off a master stroke but it may come back to bite him on the arse unless he really is willing to pull us out of the EU.
He’s just another Thatcherite on the EU membership issue.Just like Blair and Callaghan and Wilson was.Even if he delivers his promise it’ll just be a repeat of the last referendum in which the big business interests,supported by Cameron,will just brainwash the public and indecided voters,to get the yes vote.Just like the yes campaign did at the last referendum.Everyone seems to forget that the Tories are mostly supportive of being part of the Euroland project ever since they took us into it.Without a massive switch to a UKIP vote there’s absolutely no chance of us getting out and even less chance that Cameron will deliver his promise of a referendum.The fact is there’s nothing stopping him calling it now if he was honest about really wanting to give us the choice.
Carryfast:
He’s just another Thatcherite on the EU membership issue.Just like Blair and Callaghan and Wilson was.Even if he delivers his promise it’ll just be a repeat of the last referendum in which the big business interests,supported by Cameron,will just brainwash the public and indecided voters,to get the yes vote.Just like the yes campaign did at the last referendum.Everyone seems to forget that the Tories are mostly supportive of being part of the Euroland project ever since they took us into it.Without a massive switch to a UKIP vote there’s absolutely no chance of us getting out and even less chance that Cameron will deliver his promise of a referendum.The fact is there’s nothing stopping him calling it now if he was honest about really wanting to give us the choice.
Nope, sorry but I think UKIP has no chance of getting enough votes to be in a position to do anything useful.
Splitting the Tory vote, through some of the eurosceptics voting UKIP, is likely to let Labour back into power again.
Until they say we can leave Europe, if we the public want to leave, I don’t want Labour in power.
Actually I never want Labour in power ever again regardless, but I digress…
We know the Libdems are the party most in favour of the EU so we don’t want any of them winning the election, do we?
Besides which the Libdems have shown us they will break solemn promises if it helps them gain power.
So although it is a long shot, I’m voting for Dave this time round. If he welches out on us by failing to deliver a genuine in/out referendum, UKIP will get my vote the next time we get an opportunity.
Failing that, the BNP might be worth a punt in 2 elections time.
Should my mate Dave decide we can have a referendum now, I think most of the public would be glad to leave. The ones that want to stay in are the politicos and the money men. For the worker and most small businesses the EU is a millstone around our necks.
Carryfast:
He’s just another Thatcherite on the EU membership issue.Just like Blair and Callaghan and Wilson was.Even if he delivers his promise it’ll just be a repeat of the last referendum in which the big business interests,supported by Cameron,will just brainwash the public and indecided voters,to get the yes vote.Just like the yes campaign did at the last referendum.Everyone seems to forget that the Tories are mostly supportive of being part of the Euroland project ever since they took us into it.Without a massive switch to a UKIP vote there’s absolutely no chance of us getting out and even less chance that Cameron will deliver his promise of a referendum.The fact is there’s nothing stopping him calling it now if he was honest about really wanting to give us the choice.
Nope, sorry but I think UKIP has no chance of getting enough votes to be in a position to do anything useful.
Splitting the Tory vote, through some of the eurosceptics voting UKIP, is likely to let Labour back into power again.
Until they say we can leave Europe, if we the public want to leave, I don’t want Labour in power.
Actually I never want Labour in power ever again regardless, but I digress…
We know the Libdems are the party most in favour of the EU so we don’t want any of them winning the election, do we?
Besides which the Libdems have shown us they will break solemn promises if it helps them gain power.
So although it is a long shot, I’m voting for Dave this time round. If he welches out on us by failing to deliver a genuine in/out referendum, UKIP will get my vote the next time we get an opportunity.
Failing that, the BNP might be worth a punt in 2 elections time.
Should my mate Dave decide we can have a referendum now, I think most of the public would be glad to leave. The ones that want to stay in are the politicos and the money men. For the worker and most small businesses the EU is a millstone around our necks.
All of which leaves the contradiction as to why he won’t call a referendum now if he’s really honest about giving us the choice.While even if he decides to do so I think you’re underestimating the level of support within the tory party for continued membership being that the Conservatives are a naturally euro supportive party in that they just do whatever the CBI wants them to do.As for Labour I think they’ve been just another branch of the Tory party since the mid 1970’s just like the Lib/Dem lot.
Ironically it was the euro sceptic wing that made up what was left of the real Labour Party at that time which agreed with your final sentence there while they were defeated in that referendum by an alliance of the CBI,Thatcher and the majority of the Tory Party,Labour Party and the LibDems.Which is more or less the situation now with the exception that the euro sceptic wing of the Tory party is now a bit larger ( but not enough ) considering that the Labour Party is now a fully lobotomised bunch of loyal followers of Thatcherite cause regarding EU membership together with the LibDems.Which just leaves the choice of voting for UKIP or don’t bother.
There is already at least one ex Labour voter and one ex Conservative voter ( Myself and Bewick ) who realise it’s that option.Or we just admit defeat and stay a member in an increasingly Federal Europe run by the Germans for the Germans.Which is more or less exactly the way that Heath and Thatcher planned it.
I’m sad to say that Dave cannot be trusted,full stop!Yes he is spouting all the BS about re-negotiating our terms of membership but he might as well try ■■■■■■■ into the wind! Plus he’s kicking everything down the road with the proviso that it will only come about if he is re-elected with a clear majority(some chance of that!)But just supposing he was was elected,he would then try to fob the electrate off with a watered down “renegotiation package” and then, of course,he’d be in power for another 5 years and may even renege on a referrendum then!I don’t want those labour ■■■■■■■ in either and I believe the the Lib Dems will get wiped out at the next election and Clegg will lose his Sheffield seat as well! Only by giving the UKIP and yes the BNP(in some areas) a massive protest vote can we ever hope to shake these two main parties to their core and “back into line”,well thats MHO,and I’m going to give Nigels UKIP my vote and the conservative ■■■■ that represents me is only in by a wafer thin majority so I would think he’ll be right out on his arse in 2015!!Cheers Bewick.
The trouble is “CF” us two are looked upon by the lemmings as “mavericks” but at least we tell it how it is,and lets face it you come from an ex Labour point of view and I from a Tory one so surely we can’t both be wrong.But I really believe there should be a massive upheaval Politicswise in England and Wales,let the Scots have their independence for a while until they realise they shouldn’t bite the hand that feeds them !!I’ve nowt agin Scots Lads its just those SNP clowns that need stringing up!! Cheers Bewick.
Bewick:
I’m sad to say that Dave cannot be trusted,full stop!Yes he is spouting all the BS about re-negotiating our terms of membership but he might as well try ■■■■■■■ into the wind! Plus he’s kicking everything down the road with the proviso that it will only come about if he is re-elected with a clear majority(some chance of that!)But just supposing he was was elected,he would then try to fob the electrate off with a watered down “renegotiation package” and then, of course,he’d be in power for another 5 years and may even renege on a referrendum then!I don’t want those labour [zb] in either and I believe the the Lib Dems will get wiped out at the next election and Clegg will lose his Sheffield seat as well! Only by giving the UKIP and yes the BNP(in some areas) a massive protest vote can we ever hope to shake these two main parties to their core and “back into line”,well thats MHO,and I’m going to give Nigels UKIP my vote and the conservative [zb] that represents me is only in by a wafer thin majority so I would think he’ll be right out on his arse in 2015!!Cheers Bewick.
BNP?? Who the hell gives a vote for those useless b…s■■?
